China stole the West's PPE while lying about virus

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

You do realize you're including my grand-kids when you spew this shit right?

You fricken' people are no better than Jinping. 

Are your grandkids loyal to Canada, or are they loyal to China and the Chinese Communist Party?  Anyone living in Canada as a Canadian citizen but willfully helping a foreign government to the detriment of Canada's national security is a rat and a traitor.

Quote

You fricken' people are no better than Jinping. 

"You people" huh?  Guess you're no better than Don Cherry.

BTW I don't commit genocide, nor do I neglect human rights.  So yeah I'm 100000x better than that a-hole Jinping.  Keep on rockin' in the free world!

 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Are you saying these reports are false, that china does not have agents in Canada, or that main land china still has controls over some of Canadian Chinese families...or are you saying these are not the droids you are looking for...

I'm questioning the conclusion some seem to be leaping to that we're infiltrated by anywhere near the number of patriotic agents implied given the reports of extortion in the report in the OP. I don't doubt there are CCP toadies doing the boss's bidding but in any case keeping our eye clearly and deliberately focused on the crux of the issue and the point of contention, China's dictatorship, is the proper course of action and I think that means carefully choosing one's words carefully to avoid using words and phrases like "rat", "disgusting" and "every Chinese".  This sloppy way of talking about stuff is how to get people killed.

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Are your grandkids loyal to Canada, or are they loyal to China and the Chinese Communist Party?

They're all less than 8 years old you **** idiot!  They're loyal to me.

Of course that would mean my grand-kids are loyal to Pol Pot by default. That fucking Mao was waaaay to right-wing for anyone's good.

Edited May 2, 2020 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's unprovable and in fact racist.  If you can show me the 'character detector machine' that you wave over the immigrant's head to determine their value as a human being then I would buy it in a second.

The fact is, if you have an otherwise lawbiding person who is hired/paid or coerced into cooperating with the Chinese government and then they immigrate to Canada to spy for them or whatnot, it's extremely hard and often impossible to detect them.  Unless they're caught breaking the law.

So we're in a bit of a pickle.  I guess we have to hope that mass surveillance is doing its job.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Disgust for a dictator? Absolutely. Disgust for the country or the people under that dictator? Absolutely not.

I totally agree.  Let's not mistake ordinary people vs a totalitarian government with bad intentions.

Quote

 

And lest we forget, the many times in the past we've been reminded that the west allows China to get away with so much due to our demands as both consumers, voters and shareholders of companies that relocated to China. This is what we bought when we were sold on it.

 

We had little input on these policies.  These decisions were made for us by our governments, who sold out to corporate interests in the name of the mighty dollar.  This has been predicted for decades and now it's a reality.

Many, including myself, have been criticizing the US gov for doing some crappy things to other countries, it's time for those same people to say the same of China.

[Moonlight Graham]

16 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They're all less than 8 years old you **** idiot!  They're loyal to me.

How am I supposed to know how old they are.

And so no, I said implicated about your grandkids.  All Chinese people in Canada aren't "rats", only the ones who put the interests of China above the interests of Canada and harm our national security.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I totally agree.  Let's not mistake ordinary people vs a totalitarian government with bad intentions.

Including little grandkids? I mean, one of mine is still breastfeeding for Jinping's sake.

[Moonlight Graham]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm questioning the conclusion some seem to be leaping to that we're infiltrated by anywhere near the number of patriotic agents implied given the reports of extortion in the report in the OP. I don't doubt there are CCP toadies doing the boss's bidding but in any case keeping our eye clearly and deliberately focused on the crux of the issue and the point of contention, China's dictatorship, is the proper course of action and I think that means carefully choosing one's words carefully to avoid using words and phrases like "rat", "disgusting" and "every Chinese".  This sloppy way of talking about stuff is how to get people killed.

I never called all Chinese people "rats".  Read what i've wrote again.  I have Chinese-Canadian friends, they aren't rats.

[Argus]

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm questioning the conclusion some seem to be leaping to that we're infiltrated by anywhere near the number of patriotic agents implied given the reports of extortion in the report in the OP.

You're aware that the OP story is far from the only one talking about China extending its influence into Canada's diaspora (and other country's too). China has taken on a fascist mentality under Xi, and is really pushing the racial angle that all Chinese everywhere are part of the "Chinese people" and should show loyalty to China. We have multiple reports from CSIS over the years about China controlling Chinese language media here, infiltrating and controlling Chinese-Canadian community groups, and threatening Chinese Canadians who have family back in China (which is almost all of them) to cooperate. Certainly most Chinese-Canadians are loyal to Canada, not China. Does that really need to be said? But among them are a substantial number whose loyalties are, shall we say, divided, a number of agents who either willingly or unwillingly work for China due to loyalty, threats or money, and outright spies infiltrated into this country among the tens of thousands of immigrants we get each year.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. The fact is, if you have an otherwise lawbiding person who is hired/paid or coerced into cooperating with the Chinese government and then they immigrate to Canada to spy for them or whatnot, it's extremely hard and often impossible to detect them.  Unless they're caught breaking the law.

2. So we're in a bit of a pickle.  I guess we have to hope that mass surveillance is doing its job.

1. Ok

2. As opposes to spies from other countries?  Many spies don't emigrate.

[Moonlight Graham]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm questioning the conclusion some seem to be leaping to that we're infiltrated by anywhere near the number of patriotic agents implied given the reports of extortion in the report in the OP. I don't doubt there are CCP toadies doing the boss's bidding but in any case keeping our eye clearly and deliberately focused on the crux of the issue and the point of contention, China's dictatorship, is the proper course of action and I think that means carefully choosing one's words carefully to avoid using words and phrases like "rat", "disgusting" and "every Chinese".  This sloppy way of talking about stuff is how to get people killed.

Here's the problem in Canada and other countries:  if you live in Canada but have family still living in China and you criticize the Chinese gov on social media or otherwise go against China, they can visit a relative of yours in China and intimidate them in order to coerce you to shut up or do whatever they want you to do.  They've done this on the past.  That's a serious national security issue for us.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/think-of-your-family-china-threatens-european-citizens-over-xinjiang-protests

It's also wrong to discriminate against Chinese immigrants or ban them from migrating to Canada because of this.  Quite the pickle we're in.  Unfortunately, the Chinese gov is using our kindness and human rights against us.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. As opposes to spies from other countries?  Many spies don't emigrate.

True yes.  We just need to be aware that the Chinese gov has been very aggressive in their espionage against us over the last few decades and as they get richer and more powerful I assume that is only increasing.  They're becoming the new Soviets, only they have 1.4 billion people and a huge diaspora and will likely soon become the richest country on the planet.  We're entering a new Cold War and it's scary.

[OftenWrong]

22 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Now lets go talk to El Salvador and Honduras. Who want's some jobs?

Aren't they a buncha Marxists?

[OftenWrong]

21 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

This story is really quite disturbing.  We have rats living amongst us.  I'm not surprised though, this is exactly what I've been talking about.

This may be a reason why the Chinese gov lied about the virus.  It gave them a chance to grab worldwide stock of PPE while other countries didn't see the threat as bad as it actually was, thus didn't secure their own stock.  Our government looks like fools sending them PPE in Feb.

This is also one of the reasons why I don't believe in dual citizenship.  When sh!t hits the fan, Canadians should be loyal only to Canada by law and oath.  The United Front of China should be eliminated from within Canada.

China can't be allowed to get away with this.  There needs to be repercussions for their actions which have cost many countries more lives and endangered many more.  I'm quite willing to suffer financial hardship for Canada to move business away from China.  I'd consider it my patriotic duty.

Agreed, perhaps some good old-school Chinese internment camps are in order. In a time of crisis like this, I mean come on.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

You're aware that the OP story is far from the only one talking about China extending its influence into Canada's diaspora (and other country's too). China has taken on a fascist mentality under Xi, and is really pushing the racial angle that all Chinese everywhere are part of the "Chinese people" and should show loyalty to China. We have multiple reports from CSIS over the years about China controlling Chinese language media here, infiltrating and controlling Chinese-Canadian community groups, and threatening Chinese Canadians who have family back in China (which is almost all of them) to cooperate. Certainly most Chinese-Canadians are loyal to Canada, not China. Does that really need to be said? But among them are a substantial number whose loyalties are, shall we say, divided, a number of agents who either willingly or unwillingly work for China due to loyalty, threats or money, and outright spies infiltrated into this country among the tens of thousands of immigrants we get each year.

Yes Argus, you and I don't agree on much but you know damn well both of us have been saying much the same thing for years now about the threat of China's regime.  There must be a hundred posts or more in this forum where I repeat the phrase 'no truck nor trade' with the biggest most dangerous dictatorship on the planet. That's why my grand-kids other grandparents fled/immigrated here and had their family here.

Dealing with dictators seems to have the opposite effect we might hope for by opening them up to our trade and society.  Our society slowly becomes more accepting of theirs instead of the other way around.   

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I totally agree.  Let's not mistake ordinary people vs a totalitarian government with bad intentions.

We had little input on these policies.  These decisions were made for us by our governments, who sold out to corporate interests in the name of the mighty dollar.  This has been predicted for decades and now it's a reality.

Hence why the topic of outlawing in-camera lobbying should be a much hotter topic.  I bet you thought these ideas were just random unconnected notions blowing thru my mind like bits of string and post-notes.

There are potential opportunities for BIG sweeping changes to how we conduct both our economics and governance just waiting to be explored in the wake of this crisis.  There is so much we don't need to go back to - sneaky fucking politicians at the top of the list, and especially when they're really stupid.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's also wrong to discriminate against Chinese immigrants or ban them from migrating to Canada because of this.  Quite the pickle we're in.  Unfortunately, the Chinese gov is using our kindness and human rights against us.

I bet they're also using our smoke-filled back-rooms to fuck us over and that there's a lot more influence being exerted there than against some Mom and Pop grocery store in Chinatown.

[Guest ProudConservative]

Hey Guys... Just a reminder to keep it together. I know how angry, betrayed, and sometimes insignificant you feel. I'm at back at my cottage, waiting for the sun to rise so I can go boating. If you want to get the facts on China, go to the Australian news sources.

I have a friend deep within US military, saying Trump won't go hard on China, just in case they come out with the cure. He said that if they piss China off, they might not get the cure.

[Independent1986]

1 hour ago, ProudConservative said:

I have a friend deep within US military, saying Trump won't go hard on China, just in case they come out with the cure. He said that if they piss China off, they might not get the cure.

I normally make a coffee every morning when I start working, this morning I wil skip it, I just read the above statement and I am good to go. Your friend, did he talked directly to Trump or just Pence ?

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

It's also wrong to discriminate against Chinese immigrants or ban them from migrating to Canada because of this. 

No, it's not. If the immigration is not in the interest of Canada then why have it? If immigration from a particular country brings with it a lot of problems, including dangers to national security, how is it wrong to say "Nu uh" and stop immigration from that country? Because it 'discriminates' against that country? So what! Our immigration system does not exist to benefit the citizens of China or any other nation. It exists strictly to benefit Canada. Endangering our national security so as to not be 'unfair' to foreigner we owe nothing to is insane.

[Argus]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes Argus, you and I don't agree on much but you know damn well both of us have been saying much the same thing for years now about the threat of China's regime.  There must be a hundred posts or more in this forum where I repeat the phrase 'no truck nor trade' with the biggest most dangerous dictatorship on the planet. That's why my grand-kids other grandparents fled/immigrated here and had their family here.

Then realize I'm not trying to demonize Chinese-Canadians who came here to be free. I'm more concerned with the level of Chinese government interference here, the fact that our government does nothing to prevent them from gaining control of Chinese-Canadian media, community groups, and almost certainly business groups, too. You think all those Chinese-Canadian businessmen who regularly met with Trudeau during his 'cash for influence' lunches were doing anything other than pushing China's needs, because the Chinese government ordered them to?

We need to get control of this sort of thing. No other foreign country has never gone to anything remotely like such lengths to gain control and influence over an immigrant group in Canada, and the government seems petrified to do anything about it, either worried about being seen as 'racist' or at offending China. The more time that passes without them doing anything about this the more influence China will gain, and then there really will be demonizing of Chinese-Canadians because it will be assumed their loyalty is to China.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

I bet they're also using our smoke-filled back-rooms to fuck us over and that there's a lot more influence being exerted there than against some Mom and Pop grocery store in Chinatown.

Influence comes from money, like the money donated to the Liberals by Chinese-Canadian businessmen because China told them to do so or else their operations in China would suffer. Chinese consular officials aren't meeting in back rooms with party leaders offering bags of cash. The only things which could be offered by them are their influence with the Chinese community to give the party votes. Which, now that I think of it, is probably going to be a thing. After all, if they control all the Chinese language media in Canada and all the Chinese community associations and business groups. Then they could probably have a lot of influence on how Chinese Canadians vote. And there will soon be 2 million of them in Canada. That's a pretty hefty voting block to offer up to a party to influence them to do China's bidding.

[Guest ProudConservative]

12 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

I normally make a coffee every morning when I start working, this morning I wil skip it, I just read the above statement and I am good to go. Your friend, did he talked directly to Trump or just Pence ?

He works under the Pentagon making about 500K supplying parts to the Military. He's very nervous about antagonizing China. He thinks Trump needs to play nice.

[Moonlight Graham]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

Influence comes from money, like the money donated to the Liberals by Chinese-Canadian businessmen because China told them to do so or else their operations in China would suffer. Chinese consular officials aren't meeting in back rooms with party leaders offering bags of cash. The only things which could be offered by them are their influence with the Chinese community to give the party votes. Which, now that I think of it, is probably going to be a thing. After all, if they control all the Chinese language media in Canada and all the Chinese community associations and business groups. Then they could probably have a lot of influence on how Chinese Canadians vote. And there will soon be 2 million of them in Canada. That's a pretty hefty voting block to offer up to a party to influence them to do China's bidding.

John McMallum, a former MP from Markham, was recently fired by Trudeau as Canada's ambassador to China because he was working in China's interests rather than Canada's.  It's already happening.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[New World Disorder]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:49 PM, Michael Hardner said:

That's unprovable and in fact racist.  If you can show me the 'character detector machine' that you wave over the immigrant's head to determine their value as a human being then I would buy it in a second.

 

China uses Chinese travelers and students as a way to spy on other nations and to steal intellectual property. It's also know that the CCP will threaten these travelers and students, that if they don't do something for China, their family is at risk back home, the CCP will simply jail family members to hold that grip.  I believe we seriously need to consider who comes here from China. And if you want to talk racism, you should see how Nigerians are being treated in China. Propaganda about saying that the virus came from the black man. Many have been evicted from their homes and are now on the street. Which will mean the police will simply round them up, and use them in slave labour camps as they have done with the Uyghurs.

The CCP is a threat to Chinese political asylum seekers everywhere.  They will ruthlessly hunt them down and threaten them somehow. So even if we had some of those people in Canada, the CCP would do what they can to make their lives hell.

No it would not be racist, that would simply be a smart move to ban Chinese citizens from entering Canada. We are living in a global pandemic spawned by the CCP causing many nations economic hardships like no one has ever seen before.  I'd classify this as terrorism from China. Spreading the virus and then lying about it.  They tried to blame the US, calling Pompeo a political virus and trying to say it originated in the USA. I read recently they also tried to pin it on France.

One cannot trust the CCP or anyone who is being or can be controlled by them.  Lets see some actual elections in China and some move towards a democratic state instead of the totalitarian and authoritarian regime that currently rules China.