Flaky Trudeau 'humiliated' Japan, Vietnam, Australia

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not really.  Trump whined about NAFTA and team Trudeau did careful work in writing a smarter deal.  Typical.  

 

OK...you can pretend that Canada led the way, because it matters not to defer to Trump.    Team Trudeau was even outsmarted by Mexico. 

I get it....

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK...you can pretend that Canada led the way, because it matters not to defer to Trump.    Team Trudeau was even outsmarted by Mexico. 

I get it....

Trump resented Canadian wisdom on trade.  Transparent as hell.  He went out of his way to sideline Canada, holding bilateral meetings about the deal without Canada and trying to squeeze us on having an appeal mechanism.  Anyone up here worth their salt saw what was being attempted.  Nevertheless, there were smart, decent people from all three countries who worked out quite reasonable and fair legislation.  It’s a better deal for all, but not because of zero-sum America First ideology.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump resented Canadian wisdom on trade.  Transparent as hell.  He went out of his way to sideline Canada, holding bilateral meetings about the deal without Canada and trying to squeeze us on having an appeal mechanism.  Anyone up here worth their salt saw what was being attempted.  Nevertheless, there were smart, decent people from all three countries who worked out quite reasonable and fair legislation.  It’s a better deal for all, but not because of zero-sum America First ideology.  

 

That's fine, but Trudeau did not lead on the NAFTA 2.0 trigger....following Trump's decision to renegotiate is not leading.    And Trudeau did not lead on CETA or TPP either.    CETA was mostly Harper with Freeland crying tears to get her way in the end.

Trudeau was mocked even in Canada after failures in China and Vietnam.   

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine, but Trudeau did not lead on the NAFTA 2.0 trigger....following Trump's decision to renegotiate is not leading.    And Trudeau did not lead on CETA or TPP either.    CETA was mostly Harper with Freeland crying tears to get her way in the end.

Trudeau was mocked even in Canada after failures in China and Vietnam.   

The Libs seemed almost excited to draft a new NAFTA.  I would’ve waited Trump out, because it wasn’t clear we were going to have to go down that road.  Working with team Trump is always messy.

Harper was more astute and effective than Trudeau.  Freeland is pretty smart though.  Team Trump were surprised on different occasions.  Kushner understood that.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Libs seemed almost excited to draft a new NAFTA.  I would’ve waited Trump out, because it wasn’t clear we were going to have to go down that road.  Working with team Trump is always messy.

Harper was more astute and effective than Trudeau.  Freeland is pretty smart though.  Team Trump were surprised on different occasions.  Kushner understood that.  

 

Great....and nowhere in this discussion is any praise being delivered for Trudeau's "leadership".....far from it.    His "feminist agenda" and "virtue signaling" were roundly mocked...even in Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Great....and nowhere in this discussion is any praise being delivered for Trudeau's "leadership".....far from it.    His "feminist agenda" and "virtue signaling" were roundly mocked...even in Canada.

Well he’s a progressive, but as you know, he’s had to backpedal on a few issues: pipeline regulation, independence of the Justice Ministry, etc.  He wants to make the inspirational progressive speech and get the photo op, but he doesn’t take into account the potential fallout.  Death by consultation and empowerment of the fringe. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

As always, Canadian self-determination is a fine balance.  

Self-determination for Canada doesn't seem like such a great idea lately. 

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Self-determination for Canada doesn't seem like such a great idea lately. 

Evidence says otherwise.  

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Evidence says otherwise.  

Self-determination, Canadian-style:

”We’re going to ummm welcome islamic state, excuse me ‘daesh’ uh terrorists, er I mean uhhhhhh fighters, back to ummm Canada. We will uhhhh not umm allow the ummm fact that uh people are uh carrying a ummm deadly virus to uhhh stop them from um flying to Canada uhhhhh and uh spreading it. A uh person with um a violent past who was ahhh not allowed to um buy guns legally in uhhh Canada got some uh illegal guns um from the United uhhhh States and uh went on om a shooting spree. This is somehow uhhh proof that the uhh gun laws don’t um work.  If, for example, we uh made mustard illegal it would uh stop even uh more guns from um killing people.”

[Zeitgeist]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Self-determination, Canadian-style:

”We’re going to ummm welcome islamic state, excuse me ‘daesh’ uh terrorists, er I mean uhhhhhh fighters, back to ummm Canada. We will uhhhh not umm allow the ummm fact that uh people are uh carrying a ummm deadly virus to uhhh stop them from um flying to Canada uhhhhh and uh spreading it. A uh person with um a violent past who was ahhh not allowed to um buy guns legally in uhhh Canada got some uh illegal guns um from the United uhhhh States and uh went on om a shooting spree. This is somehow uhhh proof that the uhh gun laws don’t um work.  If, for example, we uh made mustard illegal it would uh stop even uh more guns from um killing people.”

Canada has had less than half the Covid cases and deaths on a per capita basis and far fewer deaths due to gun violence.  You can write all the stories you want and put them in caps, bold, large font, and expletives.  Doesn’t change facts.  Look at better outcomes and the policies that cause them.  

[WestCanMan]

26 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada has had less than half the Covid cases and deaths on a per capita basis

We have 1/8th the pop density of the US.

If the US was 8x as big as it is now, and had the same population, to level the playing field with Canada, they'd cover all of NA, all of SA and all of Europe and then some. 

Quote

and far fewer deaths due to gun violence.  You can write all the stories you want and put them in caps, bold, large font, and expletives.  Doesn’t change facts.  Look at better outcomes and the policies that cause them.  

We have less gangs here too, because we only have 3 city centers with over 2M people. The US has 10 or so over 4M. We have less poverty. Less illegal immigration, because we don't border a 3rd world counrty

[OftenWrong]

19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada has had less than half the Covid cases and deaths on a per capita basis 

Still comparing dissimilar fruit, I see. Per capita tries to normalize everything to a common denominator. It does not take into account social and economic factors.

A simple example is, you have a large city that is a major international hub, NY. There is no comparison to that level of people coming in, from all over. That also explains why 50% of the virus cases are concentrated there.

[bush_cheney2004]

23 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Still comparing dissimilar fruit, I see. Per capita tries to normalize everything to a common denominator. It does not take into account social and economic factors.

A simple example is, you have a large city that is a major international hub, NY. There is no comparison to that level of people coming in, from all over. That also explains why 50% of the virus cases are concentrated there.

 

Agreed...California has a larger population than Canada in a much smaller area...and is still doing better.

[Benz]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Self-determination, Canadian-style:

”We’re going to ummm welcome islamic state, excuse me ‘daesh’ uh terrorists, er I mean uhhhhhh fighters, back to ummm Canada. We will uhhhh not umm allow the ummm fact that uh people are uh carrying a ummm deadly virus to uhhh stop them from um flying to Canada uhhhhh and uh spreading it. A uh person with um a violent past who was ahhh not allowed to um buy guns legally in uhhh Canada got some uh illegal guns um from the United uhhhh States and uh went on om a shooting spree. This is somehow uhhh proof that the uhh gun laws don’t um work.  If, for example, we uh made mustard illegal it would uh stop even uh more guns from um killing people.”

Self determination is always a good idea. What you do with it is another story. I'll borrow Genesys' words for this post. Trudeau is selling Canada by the pound.

You are using a wrong example. Trudeau lays a silver plate of total forgiveness to terrorists while he is pooping in the war veterans' plates. It might be a very bad use of the self determination but, it's not making the self determination illegitimated. La nuance est importante.

[Benz]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed...California has a larger population than Canada in a much smaller area...and is still doing better.

It depends. Not regarding water.