God created evil for his pleasure. Do you recognize the pleasure of creating and doing evil?

[betsy]

16 hours ago, Marocc said:

It not always if you know what you're talking about. You don't, so you have little to take and little to give to the discussion. For the same reason French "patriot"'s topics don't get anywhere.

Well said.  They're often the mouthy ones too.

You know what they say - HOLLOW POTS BANG THE LOUDEST. 

[betsy]

9 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I'm absolutely fine with fascists and communists being called all the ***** under the Sun.  I would argue their atheism wasn't a factor in their behaviour though.

Because, you don't really think things through!

 

Lol.  What, you think they're screaming, "I'm doing this because I'm an atheist!" 

 

Here's the logic of it:

Atheists tend to do the most atrocious evil because.............. they don't believe there is an afterlife and a God to answer to! 

A person who don't believe there is life after death - that this is the only life there is for him - will tend to want to live it to the fullest!  Nothing will deter people - especially someone with so much power to do just that! 

 

You see a lot of depression and suicides with non-believers.  If you're down there - and you think your one life to live is screwed up, and your purpose has gone up in smoke - what is there to hope for?  

Believers on the other hand, don't think much of this world.  Life on earth is no picnic.  We know that.   We get that.  It's written!  But this is just a temporary stop-over.   An "exercise" that we all have to go through.

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[Marocc]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

You see a lot of depression and suicides with non-believers. 

There's a lot of depression and suicides among believers too.

 

[Marocc]

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

they don't act based on their atheism

You think you act based on your Atheism I can see one useful side of having devout atheists around, who follow no standards but their own. They're easy to point out to one's children and say, "don't become like that."

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

No stumbling.  I meant Muslims.  (I thought it was obvious) Not all of them, of course

This is far from obvious and it is telling that you don't see that but think it is okay to generalise in such a way.

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Which may or not include you.  I wouldn't presume to know. 

You did say, 'people like you'.

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You could clear it up if you want, by telling me if you think any kind of punishment for breaking religious customs, codes, traditions, laws, etc. is justifiable.

That's still not clear to you? What kind of a Muslim doesn't believe in the Qur'an?

13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I'm still unaware of what they've done.

You can look it up if you want. I'm guessing it isn't of much interest to you. Just 'people like me' being oppressed.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Because, you don't really think things through!

 

Lol.  What, you think they're screaming, "I'm doing this because I'm an atheist!" 

 

Here's the logic of it:

Atheists tend to do the most atrocious evil because.............. they don't believe there is an afterlife and a God to answer to! 

A person who don't believe there is life after death - that this is the only life there is for him - will tend to want to live it to the fullest!  Nothing will deter people - especially someone with so much power to do just that! 

 

You see a lot of depression and suicides with non-believers.  If you're down there - and you think your one life to live is screwed up, and your purpose has gone up in smoke - what is there to hope for?  

Believers on the other hand, don't think much of this world.  Life on earth is no picnic.  We know that.   We get that.  It's written!  But this is just a temporary stop-over.   An "exercise" that we all have to go through.

That's just disingenuous.  We both know what I meant, and we both know I was right.  There's no point in arguing if you're going to say stuff you don't mean just to score points.

That life is no picnic is no reason to invent another one for when this one ends, but I think you might have come up with a good reason for religion right there.  One of them, anyway.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

You think you act based on your Atheism I can see one useful side of having devout atheists around, who follow no standards but their own. They're easy to point out to one's children and say, "don't become like that."

No I don't.  That's the point.

 

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

This is far from obvious and it is telling that you don't see that but think it is okay to generalise in such a way.

You could look it up if you want.  It's not hard to find.  I did say not all of them. 

 

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

You did say, 'people like you'.

Yes, and that may or not include you.  I wouldn't presume to know.

 

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

That's still not clear to you? What kind of a Muslim doesn't believe in the Qur'an?

I'm not as familiar with the Koran as some people.  And there's a lot of argument about what's in there and what isn't.  And then there's the Hadiths and such.

You could clear it up for me if you felt like it.

 

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

You can look it up if you want. I'm guessing it isn't of much interest to you. Just 'people like me' being oppressed.

But not you though, right.  Still, I'm sorry people like you are oppressed.  As sorry as I am for those that people like you oppress, as it happens.

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

There's a lot of depression and suicides among believers too.

 

There may be.  After all, believers also go through bouts of doubt, not to say of those actually losing faith. 

Mind you, I'm talking particularly of the Christian faith.  Because, taking one's own life is against the doctrine.  Only God can taketh away. 

 

[betsy]

22 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That's just disingenuous.  We both know what I meant, and we both know I was right. 

No.  I don't know what you mean exactly unless you explain it!

 

I gave a sound explanation as to why a Godless person is more likely to commit evil.  FEAR OF GOD is what keeps so many believers to try to adhere to the teachings. 

WITHOUT ANY GOD TO FEAR - what's stopping an atheist?  That's why you see so many evil - killing people is like killing flies - in communist regimes!

 

 

Quote

That life is no picnic is no reason to invent another one for when this one ends, but I think you might have come up with a good reason for religion right there.  One of them, anyway.

It may be an "invention" to you........but to believers, it's a fact!   It's how one accepts it or not!

You don't seem to get that!

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, betsy said:

There may be.  After all, believers also go through bouts of doubt, not to say of those actually losing faith. 

Mind you, I'm talking particularly of the Christian faith.  Because, taking one's own life is against the doctrine.  Only God can taketh away. 

 

You'd be okay with me taking mine though, right? Legally, and with assistance.

[betsy]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You'd be okay with me taking mine though, right? Legally, and with assistance.

I'm not okay with it - and it's not only from a religious standpoint. 

 

Disability Groups Opposed to Assisted Suicide Laws

http://notdeadyet.org/disability-groups-opposed-to-assisted-suicide-laws

 

It has the potential to become ANOTHER EVIL concocted by .................people who don't fear God.

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[French Patriot]

On 4/15/2020 at 1:25 PM, Tdot said:

You are proof that the braindead can argue, so...what's the difference??  

 

And yes, you've been proven wrong in here several times as those are the easy to find posts too lol usually where you start namecalling members/posting flagrantly at some member who extended you some nice respectful scholarship lol

Poor fella...it must really suck to be you/hating your creator, so much, to whereas you wake each to play "pretend" that you were not really created.

You would have to show where I was wrong before I believe you.  Or am I not to have any opportunity to defend myself?

So much for you thinking that reciprocity is fair play. You win this detailed argument champ.

Tell us, should those you see in this link love their creator?

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I see you lashing out and attacking me. Not very christian after all, are you.

Go to the devil then...

I do not have time for your god. I do have question for you after you do a quick revue.

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

19 hours ago, Marocc said:

You implied that people like me are violent.

Do you see it aa a violence to institutionalize the discrimination and inequality of female Muslims and gay Muslims?

It is not physical violence except for gays, but what about women? Is it a violence or harm to their egos and character?

Your holy books have women at a lower worth than me. 

Regards

DL

 

[French Patriot]

19 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I see you lashing out and attacking me. Not very christian after all, are you.

Are inquisitions and refusing to give gays and women equality?

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

There may be.  After all, believers also go through bouts of doubt, not to say of those actually losing faith. 

Mind you, I'm talking particularly of the Christian faith.  Because, taking one's own life is against the doctrine.  Only God can taketh away. 

 

How do you explain that most abortions are Christians ending their pregnancies?

Regards

DL

[Guest]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

No.  I don't know what you mean exactly unless you explain it!

 

I gave a sound explanation as to why a Godless person is more likely to commit evil.  FEAR OF GOD is what keeps so many believers to try to adhere to the teachings. 

WITHOUT ANY GOD TO FEAR - what's stopping an atheist?  That's why you see so many evil - killing people is like killing flies - in communist regimes!

 

 

It may be an "invention" to you........but to believers, it's a fact!   It's how one accepts it or not!

You don't seem to get that!

A godless person may or may not be more likely to commit an evil act but it won't be their godlessness that instigates it.  A religious person, however, may well be influenced by their religious beliefs when it comes to deciding on a course of action.  For instance, I do not think to myself, "I support that woman's right to choose because I am godless and therefore there is no deity telling me not to".  I just do so because I don't believe I have a right to deny her that choice.  A religious person might well think that their beliefs give them the right to deny her that choice.

Fear of God doesn't seem to have helped much throughout history, but as alternative histories are not available, we'll never know.

As to your last point, I get it.  I am constantly saying I support the right of anyone to believe whatever they want and to act accordingly, as long as no-one else is affected.

Edited April 16, 2020 by bcsapper

[Guest]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

I'm not okay with it - and it's not only from a religious standpoint. 

 

Disability Groups Opposed to Assisted Suicide Laws

http://notdeadyet.org/disability-groups-opposed-to-assisted-suicide-laws

 

It has the potential to become ANOTHER EVIL concocted by .................people who don't fear God.

Well, I would have a separate argument with any disability group that sought to deny me right to end my life when I wanted to.  How dare they?

With you though, it is primarily a religious argument, right?  You want me to do as your God says.  You don't see that as being wrong.

[betsy]

44 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

How do you explain that most abortions are Christians ending their pregnancies?

Regards

DL

If the stat is accurate, 37% identify as Evangelicals and Catholic.

https://concernedwomen.org/abortion-demographics-who-has-an-abortion/

 

 

  But......

So what? 

Are there no self-identifying Christians who commit murder, theft, fraud etc..? 

Being a Christian does not mean that you become perfect.  This is another evidence that you know squat about Christianity.  Christianity does not mean you are immune to sin!

 

I don't know what Christianity has to do with it!  Stop for a second and think:

 

Did those Christians who had abortions did so because...... they were following the doctrine?

 

 

Quote

Woman Behind Roe v. Wade: “I’m Dedicating My Life to Overturning It”

 

“I’m Norma McCorvey, the former Jane Roe of the Roe vs. Wade decision that brought ‘legal’ child killing to America. I was persuaded by feminist attorneys to lie; to say that I was raped, and needed an abortion. It was all a lie,” she said in the ad. “Since then, over 50 million babies have been murdered. I will take this burden to my grave. Please, don’t follow in my mistakes. DO NOT vote for Obama. Obama murders babies.”

“Today as a born again Christian and faithful Catholic, I am working to reverse Roe and I am urgently asking for your help right now,” McCorvey adds.

 

 

 

https://www.lifenews.com/2013/01/22/woman-behind-roe-v-wade-im-dedicating-my-life-to-overturning-it/

 

 

 

Here is a little something to give you some insight:

 

Quote

Question: "Do Christians sin?"

Answer: Before exploring whether or not Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7).

“Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

 

The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times.

But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing.

 

Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus.

https://www.gotquestions.org/do-Christians-sin.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[Goddess]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

 

You know what they say - HOLLOW POTS BANG THE LOUDEST. 

......says the person who SCREAMS!!!!!! in almost every post, bolds and colors and GIANT FONTS and snarky emojis everywhere.

[betsy]

42 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

A godless person may or may not be more likely to commit an evil act but it won't be their godlessness that instigates it. 

 

42 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

A godless person may or may not be more likely to commit an evil act but it won't be their godlessness that instigates it.  A religious person, however, may well be influenced by their religious beliefs when it comes to deciding on a course of action. 

 

A Godless person is less likely to be deterred if he's determined at something (for whatever reason or motivation he may have).  Like Hitler for example.

A religious person may well be influenced by his religious belief - BUT, is it truly in the doctrine.....or, just his own interpretation of it? 

Evil done in the name of Christianity are not Christian teachings!  Just like the atrocities done in the Inquisition. 

 

   Is an action indeed Christian doctrine........................ or simply done in the name of Christianity?  There's a big difference.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

41 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Well, I would have a separate argument with any disability group that sought to deny me right to end my life when I wanted to.  How dare they?

With you though, it is primarily a religious argument, right?  You want me to do as your God says.  You don't see that as being wrong.

My reasons for not being okay with legally assisted suicide isn't only on religious ground.   I'm not here to argue about that either, but just giving you my other reason for it.  That's my response to your question.

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[betsy]

13 minutes ago, Goddess said:

......says the person who SCREAMS!!!!!! in almost every post, bolds and colors and GIANT FONTS and snarky emojis everywhere.

  You don't come here too often, and when you do.........is that all you're going to "contribute?"

No wonder you're being ignored at the other site.   Now I understand..........they're just being polite.

Edited April 16, 2020 by betsy

[Guest]

5 hours ago, betsy said:

 

A Godless person is less likely to be deterred if he's determined at something (for whatever reason or motivation he may have).  Like Hitler for example.

A religious person may well be influenced by his religious belief - BUT, is it truly in the doctrine.....or, just his own interpretation of it? 

Evil done in the name of Christianity are not Christian teachings!  Just like the atrocities done in the Inquisition. 

 

   Is an action indeed Christian doctrine........................ or simply done in the name of Christianity?  There's a big difference.

 

 

I don't know if a religious person is more likely to be deterred.  I'm sure a lot of Hitler's followers were Christians.

Religion is only interpretation.  If a fellow Christian differs from you in the interpretation of certain phrases, who are you to say you are right and they are wrong?  For example, what if one Christian interprets loving the neighbour as accepting homosexuality, while another does not?

I disagree with your last statement.  One cannot excuse all the horrors perpetrated by religious people simply by saying it is not in keeping with one's own interpretation of the doctrine.  For example, you will be against abortion, but you might not agree with those US lawmakers who would advocate for a 99 year prison sentence for a doctor performing one.  It's entirely likely you are all acting on religious beliefs.

[betsy]

9 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I don't know if a religious person is more likely to be deterred.  I'm sure a lot of Hitler's followers were Christians.

 

They may be Christians....but, are they following the doctrine?

 

 

Quote

Religion is only interpretation.  If a fellow Christian differs from you in the interpretation of certain phrases, who are you to say you are right and they are wrong?  For example, what if one Christian interprets loving the neighbour as accepting homosexuality, while another does not?

It's the SCRIPTURES that says if an interpretation is right or wrong!  

  An interpretation that's right will be consistent with, and never contradict anything written in the Bible! 

 

You gave  the act of homosexuality as an example: both the Old and the New Testament says, it's wrong!  Both Testaments forbid abetting and encouraging.....and joining in acts that encourage and abet a sinful act! So, there.

 

 

Quote

I disagree with your last statement.  One cannot excuse all the horrors perpetrated by religious people simply by saying it is not in keeping with one's own interpretation of the doctrine.  For example, you will be against abortion, but you might not agree with those US lawmakers who would advocate for a 99 year prison sentence for a doctor performing one.  It's entirely likely you are all acting on religious beliefs.

What is it to you what a Christian might agree or disagree with?  Why is that your business?

Why do you think your opinion  regarding Christians is worth anything........ when it's so obvious you hardly have any understanding of Christianity?

 

Disagree all you want!  Have a fit!   Like as if the opinion of a non-believer - a  rabid one at that in attacking religion and God - ESPECIALLY when it's been demonstrated so many times how ignorant you are of the doctrine - is worth anything in my view!

 

Lol.   You and FrenchP ought to officially form your duet.    After all, you're both singing the same ignorant blues! 

You're both making yourselves miserable over something you don't even believe in!  Hahahahaha  If you think God is only an invention of mankind, why are going all nuts over Him?  Why do you care so much what we believe? 

 

Go enjoy your life.  Time is ticking - don't waste it arguing and being miserable over something you don't believe in.

Edited April 17, 2020 by betsy

[French Patriot]

18 hours ago, betsy said:

Here is a little something to give you some insight:

You gave me no insight into why most abortions are initiated by Christians.

You pointed to other crimes while ignoring that jails stats show a really small % of atheists and a high % of religiously affiliated in our jails.

Regards

DL