Coronavirus in Xinjiang

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Yes, there is. This is an opportune moment to defend your claim that animals create viruses, admit you don't know what you're talking about or give up and say nothing if it suits you best.

No there isn't.  You claim a supernatural being created them.  I don't think animals conspired to create viruses just to teach us a lesson for the whole Sunday dinner thing, but even that would be more likely than their creation by something that does not exist.

[Marocc]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No there isn't.  You claim a supernatural being created them.  I don't think animals conspired to create viruses just to teach us a lesson for the whole Sunday dinner thing, but even that would be more likely than their creation by something that does not exist.

Did you notice the article I quoted about viruses? That was my proof against your claim that animals create viruses. If it's this difficult to acknowledge, maybe consider shedding some of that pride.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Did you notice the article I quoted about viruses? That was my proof against your claim that animals create viruses. If it's this difficult to acknowledge, maybe consider shedding some of that pride.

I'm not proud.  I'll believe anything science proves to me.  Now you, on the other hand, appear to be limited in your views by some pretty heavy, industrial strength blinders.

Unfortunately, I didn't read your article.  That is not a judgement of your choice in articles.  I rarely read any links.

If it proves Allah created viruses please let me know and I'll go back and find it.

[Guest]

Latest thinking is that it originated in bats, but as no bats were sold at the market at ground zero, other animals were responsible for its transmission to humans.  Perhaps it mutated in those other animals, giving it the capabilty of infecting humans it didn't have in its original hosts.  So let's not be too hard on the bats.

[eyeball]

53 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Can't answer the question properly, i don't know a lot about the situation honestly.

As a pacifist I thought you'd support non-violent resistance.

I do. I've said before that I wish Muslim's could find better ways of communicating their grievances with the west but that said the west hasn't taken much time to even perceive that there might be legitimate grievances let alone explore them. Anyone who's wondered aloud about root causes is subject to the sort of treatment you might expect some Imam to mete out to a disbeliever.

As someone who doesn't seem to understand the difference between understanding why people do something and supporting what they do I'm not surprised you don't know a lot about the situation. 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I do. I've said before that I wish Muslim's could find better ways of communicating their grievances with the west but that said the west hasn't taken much time to even perceive that there might be legitimate grievances let alone explore them. Anyone who's wondered aloud about root causes is subject to the sort of treatment you might expect some Imam to mete out to a disbeliever.

As someone who doesn't seem to understand the difference between understanding why people do something and supporting what they do I'm not surprised you don't know a lot about the situation. 

I understand Islamist terrorism, i don't know a lot of details about the situation with the Uighurs in China.

Islamist terrorists aren't simply rebels or freedom fighters, they're religious fanatics who target civilians they see as non-Muslim heretics, including fellow Muslims who aren't fundamentalist enough and therefore not "real Muslims".  So no, if I were in their position I wouldn't be doing that and neither would you. 

They aren't at war with the US gov they're at war with all Americans who they see as Christian scum.  It's not the West and Israel vs whatever Muslim country to them, it's the Christian Crusaders and Zionists vs Muslims.  They want us all to convert or die and want to take over the world by the end of a sword like Muhammad.  ISIS executes gays, Jews, and apostates.  In short, they're insane.  I feel sorry for many people in the ME, but not them.

[Marocc]

6 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I rarely read any links.

I quoted the relevant part. There is no excuse for not reading or acknowledging it while still continuing with the same topic.

6 hours ago, bcsapper said:

other animals were responsible for its transmission to humans. 

You just love to go at the animals.

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I'll believe anything science proves to me.

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

let's not be too hard on the bats.

 

So then you admit that your claim that animals create the viruses is false?

Bats too do not create the viruses. They just mind their own business, but people invade their space and apparently eat things like wolf pups.

[Marocc]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

who they see as Christian scum

It is widely recognized that Americans are generally not practicing Christians.

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

it's the Christian Crusaders and Zionists vs Muslims.

We're going back in time, are we?

The truth is, the Uighurs don't care about your conspiracy fantasies.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's interesting to note that even a totalitarian state with all it's powers of control and force plus a relatively compliant population can't contain this.

Control is a myth in your communist utopia. Everybody knows that. Just look at what happened to the Soviet Union as an example.

You can't motivate people to take on the burden of responsibility when there is nothing in it for them. For example, tis easy enough to scratch off the checkboxes on a safety inspection form, whilst not doing any actual work. A good communist knows, everything will be alright as long as your documentation is in good order. And that is why the USSR fell apart. It is why Chinese communism too will fail.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Marocc said:

I quoted the relevant part. There is no excuse for not reading or acknowledging it while still continuing with the same topic.

Yeah, I know.  I'm bad like that.

 

6 hours ago, Marocc said:

You just love to go at the animals.

Well, we're all animals.  I was talking about the ones who gave us the virus.  I still maintain it wasn't their fault.

 

7 hours ago, Marocc said:

So then you admit that your claim that animals create the viruses is false?

I don't see how you get that from the quotes you referenced.  But no, I don't.  Unless you want to pretend I think they created it in the same way you think Allah created it.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Control is a myth in your communist utopia. Everybody knows that. Just look at what happened to the Soviet Union as an example.

Ok, it looks to me like the USSR collapsed in a fairly controlled peaceful manner. I suspect if that democratic dystopia to the south of us collapsed there'd be pickups full of yahoos out shootin' and lootin' like there was no tomorrow.

Quote

You can't motivate people to take on the burden of responsibility when there is nothing in it for them. For example, tis easy enough to scratch off the checkboxes on a safety inspection form, whilst not doing any actual work. A good communist knows, everything will be alright as long as your documentation is in good order. And that is why the USSR fell apart. It is why Chinese communism too will fail.

China will probably fail due to environmental overload. The PRC however will collapse when people become fed up with the depredations of it's greedy grasping lickspittle class - it's conservative right-wing in other words. The same thing that caused communism in the first place - utopia had little to nothing in it for ordinary people.

Edited February 1, 2020 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

10 hours ago, Marocc said:

We're going back in time, are we?

The truth is, the Uighurs don't care about your conspiracy fantasies.

It's not fantasy or conspiracy, it's in their own words.  Read the fatwas from Osama Bin Laden.

[OftenWrong]

44 minutes ago, eyeball said:

China will probably fail due to environmental overload. The PRC however will collapse when people become fed up with the depredations of it's greedy grasping lickspittle class - it's conservative right-wing in other words. The same thing that caused communism in the first place - utopia had little to nothing in it for ordinary people.

Supreme BS. It is progressives (such as yourself no doubt) that have brought the world's environment to the tipping point. Industrialization and mechanization is for the greater good, you people say. In order to feed the poor, you say. 

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Supreme BS. It is progressives (such as yourself no doubt) that have brought the world's environment to the tipping point.

No it's overpopulation that's done that. But yes I have children and grandchildren so...mea culpa. You don't have kids? Thanks for taking one for team I guess.

Quote

Industrialization and mechanization is for the greater good, you people say. In order to feed the poor, you say.

Hmmm, I don't recall ever talking like that. Sounds like something a bunch of self-aggrandizing politicians would say at a ribbon cutting ceremony for some conglomerates new petrochemical complex.

Progressives would probably be asking what the complex's big pipe sticking out into the river was for.

Edited February 1, 2020 by eyeball

[Marocc]

On 2/1/2020 at 5:34 PM, bcsapper said:

But no, I don't.  Unless you want to pretend I think they created it in the same way you think Allah created it.

So who did create the viruses if animals "created" the viruses without creating the viruses — do you think they came to be all by themselves without a cause? It would be against science since science holds that nothing happens without a cause. Or do you simply think that you have no idea where viruses came from — other than that animals "created" them without creating them?

[Marocc]

On 2/1/2020 at 9:07 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Read the fatwas from Osama Bin Laden.

I'd prefer you quote them if you want to refer to them. I'm not as interested in the personal opinions of terrorists as you appear to be.

[Guest]

Just now, Marocc said:

So who did create the viruses if animals "created" the viruses without creating the viruses — do you think they came to be all by themselves without a cause? It would be against science since science holds that nothing happens without a cause. Or do you simply think that you have no idea where viruses came from — other than that animals "created" them without creating them?

No, they mutated, or evolved, from something else, in host animals.  Or something like that. 

They were definitely not created by a supernatural being. 

[Moonlight Graham]

25 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I'd prefer you quote them if you want to refer to them. I'm not as interested in the personal opinions of terrorists as you appear to be.

I'm not doing your work for you

[Marocc]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I'm not doing your work for you

It isn't my work. It is a simple expectation, but not a requirement, that if one wishes to refer to something old about which not everyone knows about, they should make a detailed reference.

It is problematic to carry on conversation with people who frequently expect others to read their minds or to be at all times equally informed.

[Marocc]

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

No, they mutated, or evolved, from something else, in host animals.  Or something like that. 

In other words, you don't know? I quoted you an article implying scientists do not know where viruses come from, but you can't say it.

4 hours ago, bcsapper said:

They were definitely not created by a supernatural being. 

If you don't know how they were created, you aren't in a position to say how they were not created without some proof to back it up.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Marocc said:

In other words, you don't know? I quoted you an article implying scientists do not know where viruses come from, but you can't say it.

If you don't know how they were created, you aren't in a position to say how they were not created without some proof to back it up.

Well at least we agree on that.  Neither of us has any proof. 

One of us has a very reasonable theory, backed by general scientific principles, while the other has a crackpot theory reinforced by some old book or other.

[eyeball]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:12 AM, Marocc said:

So who did create the viruses if animals "created" the viruses without creating the viruses — do you think they came to be all by themselves without a cause? It would be against science since science holds that nothing happens without a cause. Or do you simply think that you have no idea where viruses came from — other than that animals "created" them without creating them?

They could come from space.

Quote

 

A role for solar activity in the development of epidemics was explored by Kádár et al. (1981), although the results were inconclusive. These researchers concentrated on climatic factors and their possible relationship with solar activity, and applied them to the propagation of the epidemic. Unfortunately, the complex mix of factors that affect the propagation of the virus makes a solar connection with propagation difficult to identify. A solar connection with pandemics may seem implausible at first sight; however solar modulation of many environmental parameters is now well established, and it is timely to revisit the issue of the connection between the occurrence of pandemics and the rhythm of solar activity.

http://www.billhowell.ca/Pandemics, health, and the Sun/Tapping, Mathias, Surkan - Pandemics & solar activity.pdf

 

 

 

[Guest ProudConservative]

On 1/27/2020 at 5:50 PM, Marocc said:

About 1 million Uighur Muslims are in detention camps in Xinjiang and now coronavirus has hit Xinjiang — or East Turkistan — as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-xinjiang-uighur-squalid-detention-camps-2020-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

I still don't know if you're pro Muslim or any Muslim.

[Marocc]

16 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

I still don't know if you're pro Muslim or any Muslim.

I'm a Muslim.

[OftenWrong]

This virus symbolizes the final and deterministic outcome of communism. Death by plague.