jacee Posted April 17, 2019 Report Posted April 17, 2019 On 4/16/2019 at 12:44 AM, August1991 said: I disagree. Jacee, be honest. Tell the truth. ====== Whether native or so-called "settler", the future is a far better world. You disagree with what? Did you read the link? Quote
jacee Posted April 17, 2019 Report Posted April 17, 2019 On 4/9/2019 at 1:23 AM, OftenWrong said: The Crown does not agree. Absolute nonsense. Have you read 'the Crown's' treaties? The Royal Proclamation? The Supreme Court rulings on Aboriginal and Treaty rights, 'the duty of the Crown', 'the honour of the Crown that must be upheld'? The f'ng self-serving politicians may not agree, but they are not 'the Crown'. Btw, did you know that the Queen personally renewed the 300 year old Silver Covenant Chain treaty with the Mohawks in 2012? Harper was pissed ... and absent. Quote
OftenWrong Posted April 17, 2019 Report Posted April 17, 2019 Maybe if you knew the context I was talking about you wouldn't defend the crown. Want evidence? Just take a look around. The native situation is untenable; royal proclamations are just nice words. Natives themselves are not blameless either. What, you have faith in the System? Quote
jacee Posted April 17, 2019 Report Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: Maybe if you knew the context I was talking about you wouldn't defend the crown. Want evidence? Just take a look around. The native situation is untenable; royal proclamations are just nice words. Natives themselves are not blameless either. What, you have faith in the System? Maybe if you explained the context ...? I have no faith in politicians of the 2 major parties. We need Proportional Representation to reign in their unproductive divisiveness and unfettered power. But the law and the courts, while never perfect, are a good deal better than the other two branches of government. The Royal Proclamation 1763 is law in Canada, Constitutional law: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html#docCont 25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including (a) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; Quote
OftenWrong Posted April 18, 2019 Report Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, jacee said: Maybe if you explained the context ...? Oh, you don't know? I suggest reading threads before spouting off at people. It is all there, no reason for me to repeat. Besides, "can we get back to the actual topic please?" On 4/9/2019 at 9:47 AM, jacee said: Folks, Can we please stick to the topic of what should be done about mercury contamination at Grassy Narrows? Quote
August1991 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Posted April 18, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 4:37 AM, jacee said: You disagree with what? Did you read the link? Jacee, I have been to north-western Ontario - I have flown over gold-trailing ponds. As the Old Testament/Jewish law says: "An eye for an eye." As the New Testament says, "Turn the other cheek." 1 Quote
jacee Posted April 18, 2019 Report Posted April 18, 2019 1 minute ago, August1991 said: Jacee, I have been to north-western Ontario - I have flown over gold-trailing ponds. As the Old Testament/Jewish law says: "An eye for an eye." As the New Testament says, "Turn the other cheek." How about just remove the buried barrels leaking mercury? (Did you read the link yet?) Quote
August1991 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Posted April 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, jacee said: How about just remove the buried barrels leaking mercury? (Did you read the link yet?) You have a point but Grassy Narrows is one reserve among many. I am tired of the 1% of natives who are angry/noisy. Your personal frustration, in 2015, does not help the other 99%. Quote
jacee Posted April 18, 2019 Report Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, August1991 said: You have a point but Grassy Narrows is one reserve among many. I am tired of the 1% of natives who are angry/noisy. Your personal frustration, in 2015, does not help the other 99%. See thread topic. Try to stay on topic. It's not rocket science. I am tired of idiots who spout off without knowledge, intelligence or integrity ... and off topic. Edited April 18, 2019 by jacee Quote
Robert Greene Posted April 19, 2019 Author Report Posted April 19, 2019 15 hours ago, August1991 said: You have a point but Grassy Narrows is one reserve among many. I am tired of the 1% of natives who are angry/noisy. Your personal frustration, in 2015, does not help the other 99%. All humans beings have the right not to a safe environment. Children of all races shouldn't be poisoned. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If they did that to my backyard, I would be doing a lot more than protesting. Sometimes aggression is justified. Quote
August1991 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) On 4/18/2019 at 5:42 AM, jacee said: See thread topic. Try to stay on topic. It's not rocket science. I am tired of idiots who spout off without knowledge, intelligence or integrity ... and off topic. Jacee, Rocket science? If we tried to solve all of the injustices of the past, our children would never live better in the future. === Justice? I have this modest idea: Try to make sure that the injustice doesn't happen again. Edited April 20, 2019 by August1991 Quote
jacee Posted April 20, 2019 Report Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, August1991 said: Jacee, Rocket science? If we tried to solve all of the injustices of the past, our children would never live better in the future. === Justice? I have this modest idea: Try to make sure that the injustice doesn't happen again. How about we clean up the leaking barrels of mercury. Quote
August1991 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, jacee said: How about we clean up the leaking barrels of mercury. Agreed. Making the current mining companies pay so that future mining companies don't pollute. Jacee, it is about incentives. Each society co-operates through incentives: some better than others. Edited April 20, 2019 by August1991 Quote
jacee Posted April 20, 2019 Report Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, August1991 said: Agreed. Making the current mining companies pay so that future mining companies don't pollute. Jacee, it is about incentives. Each society co-operates through incentives: some better than others. You still haven't read the link. The company is long gone. It was a pulp mill. When is DoFo going to clean up the leaking barrels of mercury? Edited April 20, 2019 by jacee Quote
August1991 Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 13 hours ago, jacee said: You still haven't read the link. The company is long gone. It was a pulp mill. When is DoFo going to clean up the leaking barrels of mercury? Jacee, Yes, if possible, at low cost, clean it up. But the far more important question is how to ensure that it doesn't happen again. ====== A wise society does not put people in prison for revenge; it puts people in prison to deter others from committing crime. Similarly, we don't pay compensation to "correct" for past injustices. We impose fines so that the injustice does not occur again. ===== IMV, justice is not about correcting for past mistakes; it is about creating incentives for future behaviour. Quote
eyeball Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, August1991 said: Similarly, we don't pay compensation to "correct" for past injustices. We impose fines so that the injustice does not occur again. Of course compensation is paid for past injustices and compensation usually reflects both the severity of the injustice and punishment of the offender. Quote IMV, justice is not about correcting for past mistakes; it is about creating incentives for future behaviour. If that's the case Canada needs to be fined one hell of a lot more compensation. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
August1991 Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, eyeball said: Of course compensation is paid for past injustices and compensation usually reflects both the severity of the injustice and punishment of the offender. If that's the case Canada needs to be fined one hell of a lot more compensation. Yet, modern Canada is rich/wealthy. And other societies mired in arguing about past injustices are poor - and creating immigrants to a place like America. Quote
eyeball Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, August1991 said: Yet, modern Canada is rich/wealthy. And other societies mired in arguing about past injustices are poor - and creating immigrants to a place like America. We'll need 100 million Canadians to keep Canada afloat in the custom to which it's come to expect, so you could add another 15 million or so immigrants to meet the costs of Canada's obligations to 1st Nations or renegotiate new treaties that leave 1st Nations in a better position to run and finance their own affairs. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
jacee Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, August1991 said: Jacee, Yes, if possible, at low cost, clean it up. But the far more important question is how to ensure that it doesn't happen again. ====== A wise society does not put people in prison for revenge; it puts people in prison to deter others from committing crime. Similarly, we don't pay compensation to "correct" for past injustices. We impose fines so that the injustice does not occur again. ===== IMV, justice is not about correcting for past mistakes; it is about creating incentives for future behaviour. The whole country is filled with toxic messes left behind by industry. We do need to start fining industries heavily and putting the industry perps in jail as a deterrent, not the workers but the executives who decide to walk away without cleaning up. But right now, Doug Ford has to get off his fat butt and get the leaking barrels cleaned up at Grassy Narrows that have caused horrible sickness, brain damage, loss of life and damage to the community ... for decades. "At low cost"?! Good idea. We'll just get Dougie's political staffers to throw the leaking barrels of mercury into Dougie's "off-the-books" Grey Goose party van! Problem solved ... and cheap too!! Edited April 21, 2019 by jacee Quote
eyeball Posted April 21, 2019 Report Posted April 21, 2019 3 hours ago, jacee said: The whole country is filled with toxic messes left behind by industry. We do need to start fining industries heavily and putting the industry perps in jail as a deterrent, not the workers but the executives who decide to walk away without cleaning up. Who really needs to be punished for this state of affairs are ordinary Canadians. We're responsible for decades of electing the useless governments that have maintained this status quo. This is entirely on ordinary Canadians. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
August1991 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) On 4/21/2019 at 9:22 AM, jacee said: ..... But right now, Doug Ford has to get off his fat butt and get the leaking barrels cleaned up at Grassy Narrows that have caused horrible sickness, brain damage, loss of life and damage to the community ... for decades. "At low cost"?! .... Jacee, What is more important to you: 1. Put Doug Ford/Stephen Harper in jail - because they won't clean up this mess. 2. Make the government compensate people for this injustice. 3. Create incentives so that this does not happen again. Edited April 24, 2019 by August1991 Quote
jacee Posted April 24, 2019 Report Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, August1991 said: Jacee, What is more important to you: 1. Put Doug Ford/Stephen Harper in jail - because they won't clean up this mess. 2. Make the government compensate people for this injustice. 3. Create incentives so that this does not happen again. Clinic (federal) Clean up (provincial) Compensation (both ... and they can sue the company) Edited April 24, 2019 by jacee Quote
August1991 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jacee said: Clean up. IOW, you want option 2. Compensation.... ===== As I say, according to Progressives, the future is a richer/better place. Edited April 24, 2019 by August1991 Quote
jacee Posted April 24, 2019 Report Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, August1991 said: IOW, you want option 2. Compensation.... Edited Clinic (federal) Clean up (provincial) Compensation (both ... and govs can sue the company) And NO, industries do not get welfare handouts as "incentive" to obey the law. They get sued, fined, jailed if they don't. Edited April 24, 2019 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted April 25, 2019 Report Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) Still no action from Ottawa ... PETITION https://you.leadnow.ca/petitions/deliver-immediate-and-comprehensive-mercury-justice-for-the-people-of-grassy-narrows Edited April 26, 2019 by jacee Quote
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