Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dougie93 said: So bullish on Kerfoot right now, he's actually comparable to Johnsson, he's like a Johnsson who is better than Bozak on draws. Johnsson shoots the puck, Kerfoot does not. Kerfoot is a misleading player to youtube, because when he's on, he looks fantastic, when he's off, he completely invisible. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Johnsson shoots the puck, Kerfoot does not. Kerfoot is a misleading player to youtube, because when he's on, he looks fantastic, when he's off, he completely invisible. It's only his second year, he's got room to grow, Johnsson disappears for long stretches as well, different style of player, Johnsson is more of a shooter, but Kerfoot makes up for it by being a better playmaker, better defensively, and being elite in the faceoff circle.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: It's only his second year, he's got room to grow, Johnsson disappears for long stretches as well, different style of player, Johnsson is more of a shooter, but Kerfoot makes up for it by being a better playmaker, better defensively, and being elite in the faceoff circle. I wouldn't get your hopes up, you're too bullish on him, not seeing that much room to grow unless he learns to shoot the puck instead of passing every time, and I don't think he's ever going to, it's too hard wired into him. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: I wouldn't get your hopes up, you're too bullish on him, not seeing that much room to grow unless he learns to shoot the puck instead of passing every time, and I don't think he's ever going to, it's too hard wired into him. The Leafs are not going to live and die by Kerfoot's shot, Kerfoot is just a role player on the Leafs, but he's got Andreas Johnsson like upside, to say otherwise smacks of concern trolling.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: The Leafs are not going to live and die by Kerfoot's shot, Kerfoot is just a role player on the Leafs, but he's got Andreas Johnsson like upside, to say otherwise smacks of concern trolling. Nonsense, I watched the guy for two years, I said the same shit before he got traded. Talk of his upside is being pushed by people who didn't watch him, Avs fans know what's up. Maybe he has untapped upside, but he hasn't shown it yet, so I assuming it isn't there until he shows it. Ain't nothing wrong with what he is now, but that is probably all he'll be, just a role player is what he already is, that's not a next level or another gear, that is what Kerfoot is. The only upside I realistically see would be an ability to finally stick as a 3C, that's not a lot of upside. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Nonsense, I watched the guy for two years, I said the same shit before he got traded. Talk of his upside is being pushed by people who didn't watch him, Avs fans know what's up. Maybe he has untapped upside, but he hasn't shown it yet, so I assuming it isn't there until he shows it. Ain't nothing wrong with what he is now, but that is probably all he'll be, just a role player is what he already is, that's not a next level or another gear, that is what Kerfoot is. Side by side comparison of all metrics shows that Johnsson is better, but not by that much, they are actually very similar, I'm not saying Kerfoot is better than Johnsson, but he has similar upside in his own way.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Side by side comparison of all metrics shows that Johnsson is better, but not by that much, they are actually very similar, I'm not saying Kerfoot is better than Johnsson, but he has similar upside in his own way. What do you even mean by upside, what do you see Kerfoot's ceiling as? Because he already a solid middle six playmaker with versatility, how much better do you think he's going to get? I don't see him becoming more than a solid middle six playmaker with versatility, even if he finally sticks at 3C and incrementally improves a little. He is what is, what upside? Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: What do you even mean by upside, what do you see Kerfoot's ceiling as? Because he already a solid middle six playmaker with versatility, how much better do you think he's going to get? I don't see him becoming more than a solid middle six playmaker with versatility, even if he finally sticks at 3C. Side by side with Kadri; Kadri had 16 goals, Kerfoot had 15. Kadri had 44 points, Kerfoot had 42, and Kadri was playing 16 minutes a night while Kerfoot was only playing 14. He's already replacing Kadri for us, considering that Kadri without Marner is not the same player as Kadri with Marner, and Kadri is not that good defensively, not that good at faceoffs, and is a habitual discipline problem. Edited July 6, 2019 by Dougie93
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Side by side with Kadri; Kadri had 16 goals, Kerfoot had 15. Kadri had 44 points, Kerfoot had 42, and Kadri was playing 16 minutes a night while Kerfoot was only playing 14. He's already replacing Kadri for us, considering that Kadri without Marner is not the same player as Kadri with Marner. Kerfoot got top line time with MacKinnon and Rantanen at times, and when he did, he showed none of the upside you are expecting. He was mostly on the third line, and on the wing, but got plenty of 3C time, when he did, he showed none of the upside you are talking about. Even if he gets an extra two minutes a night, I see no reason to believe he's going to put up much bigger numbers than he's already given the Avs, because when he got the bigger roles, there was no big upswing in his production, even when he played with MacKinnon and Rantanen. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Kerfoot got top line time with MacKinnon and Rantanen at times, and when he did, he showed none of the upside you are expecting. Kadri wasn't scoring on a powerplay with Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Reilly, even when the Leafs powerplay was hot, Kadri was the fifth wheel out there. Like I'm happy to be rid of Kadri, I was sick of his antics, considering he's clearly lost a step already and couldn't put the puck in the ocean even with the Nanny State Warriors. The upside of Kerfoot is getting rid of Kadri and replacing him with a player who is putting up the same points, for a million dollars less.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Kadri wasn't scoring on a powerplay with Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Reilly, even when the Leafs powerplay was hot, Kadri was the fifth wheel out there. Like I'm happy to be rid of Kadri, I was sick of his antics, considering he's clearly lost a step already and couldn't put the puck in the ocean even with the Nanny State Warriors. The upside of Kerfoot is getting rid of Kadri and replacing him with a player who is putting up the same points, for a million dollars less. That's not the upside I'm talking about. I'm talking about upside relative to what Kerfoot has already shown, you are talking about a different kind of upside, a kind of upside I already agreed he has on the Leafs. Kadri wasn't a fit on the Leafs post-Tavares, not buying he's lost a step just because Tavares took his job and had to play on a checking line, that explains the drop in goals, why the assumption he's already lost a step? Name me one 3C in the NHL who scored more than Kadri last year? He did what he could in the role he was given, not being better than Matthews and Tavares isn't losing a step, that was already the case before Tavares came to town. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: That's not the upside I'm talking about. I'm talking about upside relative to what Kerfoot has already shown, you are talking about a different kind of upside. What Kerfoot has already shown is he's not that far off of Kadri, when you remove the two season Kadri played with Marner, Kadri's numbers are not much better than Kerfoot's.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: What Kerfoot has already shown is he's not that far off of Kadri, when you remove the two season Kadri played with Marner, Kadri's numbers are not much better than Kerfoot's. You can't just remove the years he played with Marner and only factor in the year he played 3C when projecting his production on the Avs. He's going to be a 2C, you need to judge him by his 2C production, not his 3C production, be real. Like I say, he could play with Rantanen for extended periods for all we know. Judging him by the numbers he put up on a checking line and assuming that's all he's got is pretty silly. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 I mean, this is why the Leafs will match if Marner get's offer sheeted at 12.5, Marner makes everybody better, without Marner, Kadri is a glorified Kerfoot who takes dumb penalties and gets suspended, is not that good at faceoffs, and is not actually a defensive player, he's actually a defensively liability, Kadri is a Super Pest not a Shutdown Center.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I mean, this is why the Leafs will match if Marner get's offer sheeted at 12.5, Marner makes everybody better, without Marner, Kadri is a glorified Kerfoot who takes dumb penalties and gets suspended, is not that good at faceoffs, and is not actually a defensive player, he's actually a defensively liability, Kadri is a Super Pest not a Shutdown Center. Sure Marner made him better, but that doesn't mean he's going to produce like he did on a checking line. You are overcompensating, if he can produce 44 points on a down year, not playing with Marner, at 3C, he can produce more than that playing with the Avs, playing at 2C, be real. 25-30 goals and 50-60 points is not unreasonable for Kadri on the Avs. 15-20 goals and 40-50 points isn't unreasonable for Kerfoot on the Leafs. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: You can't just remove the years he played with Marner and only factor in the year he played 3C when projecting his production on the Avs. He's going to be a 2C, you need to judge him by his 2C production, not his 3C production, be real. Like I say, he could play with Rantanen for extended periods for all we know. Judging him by the numbers he put up on a checking line and assuming that's all he's got is pretty silly. Kadri is also slow, he was never a great skater, but he's losing a step, again, this is why the Leafs will cave into Marner, because Tavares ain't fast neither, Tavares needs Marner, the problem for the Leafs was that Marner could either make Tavares better or Kadri, and the 11 million dollar guy gets the Marner, Kadri's scoring dropped back to where it was before he played with Marner, as soon as he didn't have Marner.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Kadri is also slow, he was never a great skater, but he's losing a step, again, this is why the Leafs will cave into Marner, because Tavares ain't fast neither, Tavares needs Marner, the problem for the Leafs was that Marner could either make Tavares better or Kadri, and the 11 million dollar guy gets the Marner, Kadri's scoring dropped back to where it was before he played with Marner, as soon as he didn't have Marner. His numbers dropped because he was playing 3C too, it wasn't just not being on Marner's line anymore. Assuming it was all a lack of Marner is your mistake. When you get less ice time and play with shittier guys, a drop off in production is expected, assuming it's because he's lost a step, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: His numbers dropped because he was playing 3C too, it wasn't just not being on Marner's line anymore. Assuming it was all a lack of Marner is your mistake. His numbers dropped because he couldn't put the puck in the ocean, he went like 20 games without scoring a goal, Babs gave him 16 minutes a night, Kadri had one more goal and two more points than Kerfoot, even though Kerfoot was only getting 14 minutes a night, Kerfoot got less icetime with the Avs on the second line than Kadri got as the Leafs "3C"
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) Kadri was buried outside the top six, because you have two 1C's, Colorado only has one 1C, therefore expect Kadri to produce more than as a bottom six guy on the Leafs. He's going to get more ice time on the Avs than he got last year. Kadri can stick as a 2C, Kerfoot cannot, especially on the Leafs. If Babcock is smart he won't give Kerfoot Kadri ice time, and he'll play Matthews and Tavares more, and if he does play Kerfoot sixteen minutes a night, I don't expect that to result in a jump in production, because when he got more ice time on the Avs, that never happened, even when playing with two top 20 point producers in the NHL and getting first line ice time. How that didn't give him a boost is just weird, can't explain it, but that is what happened. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Kadri was buried outside the top six, because you have two 1C's, Colorado only has one 1C, therefore expect Kadri to produce more than as a bottom six guy on the Leafs. He's going to get more ice time on the Avs than he got last year. Kadri can stick as a 2C, Kerfoot cannot, especially on the Leafs. Colorado is still going to play the shit out of MacKinnon, Babs didn't bury Kadri, that's bullshit, he gave him way more icetime than he deserved and wouldn't take him off PP1 even though Kadri was pathetic out there, he was feeble on the powerplay, with four of the best players in the world, each one of them in the same class as any of the Avs superstars.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Colorado is still going to play the shit out of MacKinnon, Babs didn't bury Kadri, that's bullshit, he gave him way more icetime than he deserved and wouldn't take him off PP1 even though Kadri was pathetic out there, he was feeble on the powerplay, with four of the best players in the world, each one of them in the same class as any of the Avs superstars. He won't be playing 3C on the Avs, he'll be playing 2C. Babs did bury Kadri outside the top six, he had to though, can't play Tavares or Matthews at 3C, that would be a lot dumber. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: He won't be playing 3C on the Avs, he'll be playing 2C. Babs did bury Kadri outside the top six, he had to though, can't play Tavares or Matthews at 3C, that would be a lot dumber. But I don't think Kadri will get much more icetime at 2C on the Avs than he did at 3C on the Leafs, the problem for the Leafs was that Babs wouldn't bury Kadri and play the shit out his Supertars, Colorado plays the MacKinnon line like 25 minutes a night, and Kadri is not going to be playing on that line, he's going to be playing with Burahowsky and Jost, which ain't Marner.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: But I don't think Kadri will get much more icetime at 2C on the Avs than he did at 3C on the Leafs, the problem for the Leafs was that Babs wouldn't bury Kadri and play the shit out his Supertars, Colorado plays the MacKinnon line like 25 minutes a night, and Kadri is not going to be playing on that line, he's going to be playing with Burahowsky and Jost, which ain't Marner. Colorado played MacKinnon like 22 minutes a night because they had a crap second line that wasn't much better than their third line. Now their second line has been upgraded notably, so I imagine they will get more ice time this season than last season. 17-18 minutes a night is probably what Kadri will play. Overplaying the first line is probably why they were so banged up at the end of the year, now that they have a second line, I'm guessing they'll have the luxury to dial it back a smidge. Edited July 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19
Dougie93 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: Colorado played MacKinnon like 25 minutes a night because they had a crap second line, now their second line has been upgraded notably, so I imagine they will get more ice time this season than last season. I don't think he's getting vastly more than 16 minutes, Kadri was literally dead weight on the Leafs, one of the upsides of Kerfoot is that it forces Babs to play Matthews and Tavares more, I don't think Bednar will make the same mistake of cutting back MacKinnon's icetime just to prop up Kadri's numbers.
Yzermandius19 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Posted July 6, 2019 Just now, Dougie93 said: I don't think he's getting vastly more than 16 minutes, Kadri was literally dead weight on the Leafs, one of the upsides of Kerfoot is that it forces Babs to play Matthews and Tavares more, I don't think Bednar will make the same mistake of cutting back MacKinnon's icetime just to prop up Kadri's numbers. He'll cut back more of the third lines ice time, and only a little of top lines, but combined that could net him a minute or two of extra ice time, he ain't going to play 20 minutes a night or anything, unless MacKinnon gets hurt.
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