NHL General Thread

[Dougie93]

Yeah,  there's clearly a relationship there, I mean Sakic did try to hire Dubas away from the Leafs, so they've got some background.

[Yzermandius19]

VGK shopping Gusev, any chance he ever plays in the NHL?

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

VGK shopping Gusev, any chance he ever plays in the NHL?

I really don't have a feel for the KHL guys, I never see them play, so I don't have a scouting report on any of them.

[Dougie93]

It's like Korshkov, I had no idea what they had in him, until I saw him play in the A and got a sense of where he slots in.

But this other guy Mikeyev, I just assume he's this years Par Lindholm until I see otherwise, because I have no sense of where he slots in the NHL

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I really don't have a feel for the KHL guys, I never see them play, so I don't have a scouting report on any of them.

You've seen him play at international events though, he's always one of Russia's top point producers.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You've seen him play at international events though, he's always one of Russia's top point producers.

I can't make an NHL assessment based on the big ice, guys can do all sorts of things with that much time and space, then come to the NHL and be completely invisible.

[Dougie93]

It's like Vadim Shipachyov, he's a star in the KHL, couldn't even make the team in the NHL.

Zaitsev is a top four D for Team Russia, but in the NHL it all just seems too fast for him, Zaitsev for Russia on big ice and Zaitsev in the NHL is like two totally different guys.

[Yzermandius19]

The big ice can be deceiving, so true, hard to properly evaluate under those circumstances.

[Dougie93]

It's like Calle Rosen who the Avs just picked up, he's got phenomenal skill, he's got elite skill, and he was good for the Marlies, but I still don't know if he's an NHL defensemen and I suspect that he's not actually.

Rosen has no physicality to his game and he gets hurt all the time, I don't think he can handle an NHL grind, which is why I think Babcock was probably saying to Dubas "you can't pencil this guy in as being on the Leafs, because he's probably not going to be in the end". 

Get Tyson Barrie, because you know what you are getting, these free agents from Europe are mostly Par Lindholm types, so I don't put any stock in them until I see them in the NHL.

Zaitsev is a perfect example of overrating the Euro free agent and then finding out the hard way why they didn't get drafted in the first place.

[Dougie93]

It's like this Ilya Mikeyev the Leafs signed, I don't assume he's making the team, maybe he wont and he'll just go back to the KHL, because he has to beat out at least Nic Petan and Trevor Moore, and both of them have obvious NHL upside, and if you have big Jason Spezza playing 4C, you can play those smaller fast guys on his wings.

Although Petan is more shifty than he is straight line fast, the Russian is probably a better skater, but I know Petan can score in the NHL, Mikeyev, I have no idea what he can do, but again, I'm expecting Par Lindholm 2.0

Edited July 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Timothy Liljgren is another one, he's having trouble adjusting to the small ice, he doesn't score like he did in Europe, the angles are different, but mostly he just doesn't have the time and space on the small ice to tee shots up and get them through as he was in Euro junior.

Whereas Rasmus Sandin seems to thrive on the small ice,  which is why Sandin has shot past Liljegren in the depth chart and Liljegren is close to being trade bait already.

The Leafs actually offered Liljegren to LA for Muzzin, LA wanted Durzi instead, reason being, there's no guarantee Liljegren is ever going to figure it out, whereas Durzi from the OHL might have a lower ceiling, he's much more reliable to at least be an NHL player,

I think Sandin is untouchable at this juncture, but I think Liljegren is being actively shopped, because the Leafs may simply not be able to wait years for Liljegren to make the jump, and he doesn't look very close right now, Tavares clock is ticking, so Liljegren strikes me as a guy who could be moved to get someone more NHL ready right now.

This is also why I don't get that worked up about trading away late first rounders, because anything after the top ten picks or so is really just a glorified second round pick.

Dubas knows, hence why he is so willing to trade down late in the round.

Fans might say it would be crazy to trade Liljegren for a Muzzin super rental, but it would not surprise me at all if Durzi turns out to be a top four and Liljeregen turns out to be a bust.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

Canes not waiting to match the offer sheet on Aho, announcing they are going to match already.

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Bergevin providing an effective demonstration as to why offer sheets are so rare.

They generally don't work, because the other will match unless you massively overpay.

Aho could probably be had, but it would cost 7 years $13 million plus and the four 1st round picks.

Trying to come in under the overpay is not going to work.

All you end up doing is burning a bridge with another GM.

[Dougie93]

Compare and contrast with the Vito Corleone method, where you can get teams to take Nikita Zaitsev's contract and retain 50% salary on Barrie.

Draft, develop and maintain open lines of established communications where you can get guys on the phone and make things happen, is the only rational team building approach.

Publicity stunts and trying to take shortcuts is Harold Ballardville.

[Dougie93]

Having had a night to sleep on it, I'm even more bullish the day after.

First of all, Dubas has been hamstrung by entitled prima donna Mitch Marner and his invasive hockey parents, and yet he has somehow;

1) Rid us of the Patrick Marleau third year at the reasonable cost of a late first rounder, bearing in mind that late first round picks are vastly overrated, particularly for teams who draft and develop holistically.

2) Acquired the top four RHD who is basically a right handed Morgan Rielly to replace Gardiner, at only $2.75 million cap hit, which for Tyson Barrie is absurd.

3) Acquired Ceci to replace Zaitsev, which I think is a slight upgrade, Ceci just having more NHL upside than overpaid perpetual problem child  Zaitsev, Ceci will at least appreciate being a Leaf and will be better just by playing with better players on a better team.

4) Moved on from Nazem Kadri who basically blew himself up giving the Leafs the excuse they needed to get rid of his contract before he ages out,

5) Acquired Kerfoot which is a more useful bottom six role player than the underutilized and so inherently overpriced Kadri.

6) Resisted the urge to overpay for Ron Hainsey.

7) Still acquired a 3rd round pick for Brown,  despite Ottawa basically doing the Leafs a favor by taking the contract.

8) Signed Jason Spezza to be the "veteran presence" of a Marleau, at a tenth of the price, Spezza basically playing for free just for the chance to play for the Leafs.

9) Picked up Ben Harpur to be a stop gap bottom pairing depth option with NHL experience and size until Dermott returns from rehab.

10) All in the process of clearing over $12 million in cap room to sign Marner even in the unlikely event of an offer sheet.

If Dubas isn't the best GM in the league, he's pretty damn close.

[Dougie93]

Furthermore, contrary to the narrative that the Leafs are suddenly "weak" at center due to the loss of Kadri, since they didn't even have Kadri in the playoffs, they still have the same option of playing Nylander at center in a pinch if they are want to roll lines in the event they don't get a cheaper 3C by the deadline.

      Hyman - Tavares - Marner

Johnsson - Matthews - Kapanen

     Kerfoot - Nylander - Moore

       Petan - Spezza - Mikheyev

[Dougie93]

Not that Ben Harpur is going to be anything more than a depth bottom pairing guy, he does bring one asset the Leafs are totally lacking right now, which is enforcer, because he's actually a pretty decent fighter, which you don't want to pay Matt Martin money for, but Harpur at $725K is right priced for the purposes of.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[Jarmo]

Thought about Kane as the world best American player watch the next 19/20 season.

 

The player with technniqal skills want became famous leadership in the point league. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jarmo

[Jarmo]

Later next season begun.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jarmo

[Dougie93]

Apparently the Leafs had a deal to trade Kadri to Calgary for TJ Brodie, but Kadri said f**k Alberta and refused to waive.

So that's when the Leafs circled back to Gentleman Joe because Colorado was not on Naz's list

Not sure if Calgary was willing to retain salary on Brodie, but I prefer Barrie to Brodie anyways, Brodie is no better defensively, Barrie is way better offensively.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Apparently the Leafs had a deal to trade Kadri to Calgary for TJ Brodie, but Kadri said f**k Alberta and refused to waive.

So that's when the Leafs circled back to Gentleman Joe because Colorado was not on Naz's list

Not sure if Calgary was willing to retain salary on Brodie, but I prefer Barrie to Brodie anyways, Brodie is no better defensively, Barrie is way better offensively.

Barrie is better and cheaper if Calgary wasn't up for retaining salary.

Kadri might be overpaid for 3C, but he's underpaid for 2C and is probably the highest quality 2C the Avs could have gotten for a Barrie rental and at a bargain price. Perfect trade for both sides really, thank you and you're welcome.

Peace out TB4, Hello Nazem Kadri.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Barrie is better and cheaper if Calgary wasn't up for retaining salary.

Kadri might be overpaid for 3C, but he's underpaid for 2C and is probably the highest quality 2C the Avs could have gotten for a Barrie rental and at a bargain price. Perfect trade for both sides really, thank you and you're welcome.

Peace out TB4, Hello Nazem Kadri.

Indeed, Kadri couldn't adjust to a lesser role, he wants to be a star, he craves top six minutes, he'll bounce back for sure, I think he will get Jost going, because Naz drags guys into the fight.

 

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Indeed, Kadri couldn't adjust to a lesser role, he wants to be a star, he craves top six minutes, he'll bounce back for sure, I think he will get Jost going, because Naz drags guys into the fight.

 

He'll get the bigger role and he won't have to overcompensate for being the only forward with grit, so hopefully he takes less dumb penalties. Landeskog I think can teach him how to use his physicality in a more productive manner and be a smarter agitator. If we want to take dumb penalties, that's what Zadorov is for, so leave it to him Nazem.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

He'll get the bigger role and he won't have to overcompensate for being the only forward with grit, so hopefully he takes less dumb penalties. Landeskog I think can teach him how to use his physicality in a more productive manner and be a smarter agitator. If we want to take dumb penalties, that's what Zadorov is for, so leave it to him Nazem.

Based on what Dubas said, of the players the Leafs were willing to trade, teams were only interested in Kapanen, Johnsson or Kadri, so that's a no brainer, I thought we might be forced to trade one of the young RFA's to get the RHD, i am a Naz fan, but I'm still happy to see him go, if only because I want to keep the younger cheaper Kapanen and Johnsson, although the second suspension was pretty much the last straw in terms of having anymore time for his antics.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

In terms of TB4, I'm aware of what his strengths and weaknesses are, but I think he's a perfect fit for the style the Leafs want to play, and he's a perfect fit with Jake Muzzin, in fact they already played as a pairing on Team Canada and won Gold at the World's in 2015.   Spezza was also on that team IIRC.