Toxic Masculinity ad from Gillette.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

  This is about men and the Gillette ad - not about women.

Yes...

Keep going... You'll understand...

Edited January 18, 2019 by QuebecOverCanada

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Keep going... You'll understand...

I understand that you do not want men's issues discussed.  You're trying to flip it to your perceived women's issues - ie: women are cunty manipulative gold-diggers.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

I understand that you do not want men's issues discussed.  You're trying to flip it to your perceived women's issues - ie: women are cunty manipulative gold-diggers.

I've never even said that women are that. I stated precisely, that they may be like that, just like some men may be predators.

You have no arguments whatsoever.

[Goddess]

Just now, QuebecOverCanada said:

I've never even said that women are that. I stated precisely, that they may be like that, just like some men may be predators.

So......you want ads that address women that "may" be like that, but you don't want ads directed to men who "may" be like the men portrayed in the ad.

Got it.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

So......you want ads that address women that "may" be like that, but you don't want ads directed to men who "may" be like the men portrayed in the ad.

Got it.

Where did I say that I wanted an ad for women like that? I find the idea abhorrent to do it for Men, and made a comparison to if the ad was made toward women, or Blacks, which would be considered as really offensive.

'Hey Blacks don't you steal the store today, be a good Black person'

'Hey Women don't be a Bitch today, be a good woman'

My gosh... how is it so hard to understand?

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Where did I say that I wanted an ad for women like that? I find the idea abhorrent to do it for Men, and made a comparison to if the ad was made toward women, or Blacks, which would be considered as really offensive.

'Hey Blacks don't you steal the store today, be a good Black person'

'Hey Women don't be a Bitch today, be a good woman'

My gosh... how is it so hard to understand?

I do understand.  It's offends you when men's violence is talked about. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, Goddess said:

I do understand.  It's offends you when men's violence is talked about. 

Can you answer my arguments or are you just going to digress and make false assumptions all the time?

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Can you answer my arguments or are you just going to digress and make false assumptions all the time?

You don't agree that the ad applies to men.  That's fine.  That's your opinion.  My opinion is that the ad IS pertinent.

If you want to talk about how women are cunty manipulative gold-diggers start a thread about it and if I want to, I'll join that discussion.  You're the one changing the argument and the thread topic.

[QuebecOverCanada]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You don't agree that the ad applies to ALL MEN. 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

 

[Goddess]

32 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

You don't agree that the ad applies to ALL MEN

Please don't change what I said and then put it in a quote box, like that's what I said.

If it applies to some men, then what's the problem? 

You want to make sure that everybody knows that not ALL men are like portrayed in the video? 

Don't worry.  We do. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Please don't change what I said and then put it in a quote box, like that's what I said.

You really do have problems with exchanging with others it seems, especially understanding a conversation. It doesn't make it look like it's what you said, it makes me look like correcting what you said to fit my opinion that you mischaracterized since you were out of arguments.

[Goddess]

21 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

You really do have problems with exchanging with others it seems, especially understanding a conversation. It doesn't make it look like it's what you said, it makes me look like correcting what you said to fit my opinion that you mischaracterized since you were out of arguments.

I'm not out of arguments.  There's just no point in discussing with you if you believe what the ad portrays has no relevance to real life and only want to flip the topic to what you perceive as women's failures.

If you want to correct me, use the reply box and don't change what I said in my own reply box, please.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Goddess

[QuebecOverCanada]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

If you want to correct me, use the reply box and don't change what I said in my own reply box, please.

Shifting the debate to the form of what's been said is pure damage control.

[Goddess]

I re-watched the ad and I still don't see where they say ALL MEN are like this.

I did notice they said, "We believe in the best of men." and "Some men already know."

Those indicate to me that they are not saying this is ALL MEN.  

Sorry, I just don't see how this ad is attacking ALL MEN.

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

I re-watched the ad and I still don't see where they say ALL MEN are like this.

I did notice they said, "We believe in the best of men." and "Some men already know."

Those indicate to me that they are not saying this is ALL MEN.  

Sorry, I just don't see how this ad is attacking ALL MEN.

Now we're talking about the ad and not my 'machiavelic' intentions toward women or that I formulate my post badly, we're getting somewhere.

Look at the commercial again.

-Rough and tumble play for kids that are separated = bullying? toxic? 

 -Men standing next to a bbq saying 'boys will be boys' = bullying? toxic? WTF is up with the bbq thing? 

Why do nomal men turn sexist when they get in front of a barbecue? - The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/barbecue-normal-men-sexist

Why do barbecues bring out your inner sexists

 https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/why-do-barbecues-bring-out-our-inner-sexists-6688319/

-Telling a woman in party to cheer up = Sexual harassment? 

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

-Rough and tumble play for kids that are separated = bullying? toxic?

It is not portraying "rough & tumble play".  From the look on the one boy's face, he is in distress.  A dad separates them and tells the boys not to fight and hit each other.

"Boys will be boys" is the excuse given for a lot of bad male behaviour.  That's why it's being addressed in the ad. Maybe you're not aware of the prevalence of it as an excuse:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/gender-and-schooling/201403/the-danger-boys-will-be-boys

https://www.scarymommy.com/boys-will-be-boys-is-bullsht-bad-behavior/

https://www.scarymommy.com/boys-will-be-boys-is-bullsht-bad-behavior/

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/problem-boys-parents-hesaid/

[QuebecOverCanada]

10 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It is not portraying "rough & tumble play".  From the look on the one boy's face, he is in distress.  A dad separates them and tells the boys not to fight and hit each other.

"Boys will be boys" is the excuse given for a lot of bad male behaviour.  That's why it's being addressed in the ad. Maybe you're not aware of the prevalence of it as an excuse:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/gender-and-schooling/201403/the-danger-boys-will-be-boys

https://www.scarymommy.com/boys-will-be-boys-is-bullsht-bad-behavior/

https://www.scarymommy.com/boys-will-be-boys-is-bullsht-bad-behavior/

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/problem-boys-parents-hesaid/

Sure, he's in distress because he's losing the fight, like any boy playing rough and tumble games... Then you get up and you start again like all the little boys do, except those who are mommy's boys aka the snitch who will tell the teacher and will in turn get bullied savagely as revenge by other kids.

[Goddess]

18 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Telling a woman in party to cheer up = Sexual harassment? 

It appears to be a pool party they are at and there a couple of guys trying to film them in the bathing suits and telling them to "smile".  From the look on their faces, it's clear they do not want to be filmed.  Another man steps in and tells them to leave the women alone.

This is not "flirting".  Women like flirting.  We don't like sexual harrassment.  The two are not the same.  If you're arguing that "men can't flirt anymore" you either don't understand what fllirting is or you're just pretending not to in order to set up a strawman argument in favor of sexual harrassment.  Flirting is about building desire and it's often subtle. It's paying attention to the other person's emotions and body language in order to create intimacy with them.  It's 2-way, it's playful and it's a fun exchange that makes everyone feel good.  Sexual harrassment is the opposite.  It's devoid of empathy and it's about forcing your will on another person without any regard for their desires.  Which is what was being portrayed in the ad.

[Goddess]

8 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Sure, he's in distress because he's losing the fight, like any boy playing rough and tumble games... Then you get up and you start again like all the little boys do, except those who are mommy's boys aka the snitch who will tell the teacher and will in turn get bullied savagely as revenge by other kids.

I believe that's the behaviour that the ad is trying to stop.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by Goddess

[QuebecOverCanada]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

I believe that's the behaviour that the ad is trying to stop.  

No.

The ad is trying to stop the kids from fighting first hand. It's baaad to fight you know. You could hurt yourself or another person. So bad. So violent.

[QuebecOverCanada]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It appears to be a pool party they are at and there a couple of guys trying to film them in the bathing suits and telling them to "smile".  From the look on their faces, it's clear they do not want to be filmed.  Another man steps in and tells them to leave the women alone.

This is not "flirting".  Women like flirting.  We don't like sexual harrassment.  The two are not the same.  If you're arguing that "men can't flirt anymore" you either don't understand what fllirting is or you're just pretending not to in order to set up a strawman argument in favor of sexual harrassment.  Flirting is about building desire and it's often subtle. It's paying attention to the other person's emotions and body language in order to create intimacy with them.  It's 2-way, it's playful and it's a fun exchange that makes everyone feel good.  Sexual harrassment is the opposite.  It's devoid of empathy and it's about forcing your will on another person without any regard for their desires.  Which is what was being portrayed in the ad.

These women that appear at the pool first here?

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

These women that appear at the pool first here?

Sorry, you said the women were told to "cheer up".  There is no words in that snippet, so I assumed you were talking about the pool party where the women are ordered to "smile" for unwanted filming.

That snippet seems to be a music video being filmed and likely making a statement about how women are portrayed in some music videos.

Perhaps it's you who needs to go back and watch the video again. 

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

No.

The ad is trying to stop the kids from fighting first hand. It's baaad to fight you know. You could hurt yourself or another person. So bad. So violent.

Why is it important to you that little boys are allowed to hit each other?  I don't understand.

And we're not talking about men who have to physically fight off an attacker or anything like that.  Don't change the goalposts.

Why is it important that little boys be allowed to punch and hit  each other?

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Goddess said:

I don't see this ad as attacking masculinity. I see it as redefining it.  I see it as expanding it. 

 Sure, no question there are some violent, moronic, no-class men who ought to be buried under a prison. But they already know who they are. They already know what they're doing is wrong and just don't care. They're anti-social misfits, and they let their aggressiveness follow that path.

Most men are not into that, or at least weren't among 'old fashioned' men. Like, when there was a fight between schoolboys back in the sixties and seventies, only two were allowed to fight! Anyone else who stepped in to help would almost immediately have someone from the watching crowd intercede. And no one ever kicked anyone, especially in the head! If one side of the fight was clearly unwilling, and losing, sure as shoot someone would step in and stop it. Same for any fighting between girls. Guys wouldn't stand around cheering and shouting "Tear her clothes off!" they'd stop it immediately. As for hitting girls - every guy I know knew damn well you weren't allowed to hit girls - ever. This is exemplified in those old movies where a woman slaps a man in the face and he just takes it. That was the 'old fashioned' masculinity, unlike today's more sensitive, inclusive, caring man who isn't afraid to cry... and cry... and cry.

So maybe instead of further demonizing masculinity and encouraging them to be sensitive we should be getting back into the old fashioned days, when men knew they had a responsibility towards others, especially women and children.

I'm not sure why that frightens and offends some men.

Maybe we're just tired of always being vilified and blamed and mocked. We're the only identity group that can be done to today, after all. You think there'd be an ad directed at any other group trying to get them to mend their bad behaviour?