Toxic Masculinity ad from Gillette.

[Boges]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/business/gillette-masculinity-ad/index.html

Quote

The company has won accolades for advertisements such as its Always "Like a Girl" campaign and Pantene's "Strong is Beautiful" campaign that shows NFL players braiding their daughter's hair.

The Gillette "We Believe" includes a voice narrating over scenes of bullies, sexual harassment and masculinity.

"We can't hide from it. It's been going on far too long. We can't laugh it off, making the same old excuses." Then, in a direct reference to the #metoo movement, it says "Something has finally changed." It closes with scenes of men breaking up fights, standing up for people, and being attentive fathers.

Gillette's team consulted men across the country, conducted its own studies, and spoke to experts on masculinity, according to the company.

On YouTube and Twitter, the replies were flooded by people angry about the ad. Some men have said it was insulting, other said it was "feminist propaganda."

Other people said the reactions to the ad proved why it was necessary in the first place.

You may think the term "Toxic Masculinity" is just a way to attack testosterone and I tend to agree. 

But in the instance of this ad, I'm not sure. The idea of hand waving awful behaviour with the "boys will be boys" excuse is actually rather immoral. And more people should speak out when guys threat other people (not just women, but peers) in a degrading way. 

The story of Hazing and Sexual at an Elite College in Toronto (St. Mikes) is a perfect example of how this way of thinking is way too prevalent in society. 

But then there's a fine line between "locker room" talk and abuse. But ads like this are very good for the discussion.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Boges

[QuebecOverCanada]

It's not a conspiracy anymore. It's out in the open.

White men, we have difficult times ahead and will have to act upon it. All the corporations are against us and push an agenda against us. They are willing to spit on their profit and their customer base just to pander to cultural marxism. Gillette didn't run this advertisement for money, they did it for political reasons, it's obvious. Stating otherwise is either sarcasm or total non sense. It has been revealed today that Google and Youtube were actively manipulating, consciously, manually the search results in favour of the Marxists. The academic institutions are plagued with anti white men doctrine, plagued with Marxists. The current government openly stated that choosing ministers based on their sex rather than qualification was a 'current year thing'. The corporate environment is becoming plagued with lawsuits towards those who do not comply to the rigid ideology of diversity AND also 'muh protect wuhmuhn fom seggual harrasmen'.

This is not going to end well.

[Goddess]

31 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

It's not a conspiracy anymore. It's out in the open.

White men, we have difficult times ahead and will have to act upon it. All the corporations are against us and push an agenda against us. They are willing to spit on their profit and their customer base just to pander to cultural marxism. Gillette didn't run this advertisement for money, they did it for political reasons, it's obvious. Stating otherwise is either sarcasm or total non sense. It has been revealed today that Google and Youtube were actively manipulating, consciously, manually the search results in favour of the Marxists. The academic institutions are plagued with anti white men doctrine, plagued with Marxists. The current government openly stated that choosing ministers based on their sex rather than qualification was a 'current year thing'. The corporate environment is becoming plagued with lawsuits towards those who do not comply to the rigid ideology of diversity AND also 'muh protect wuhmuhn fom seggual harrasmen'.

This is not going to end well.

It seems like a good message to me......what parts of the ad are you specifically against?

[BubberMiley]

As a white man, I'm sick of people suggesting that campaigns against bullying and sexual violence are attacks against white men. No, it isn't. It's an attack against assholes. I don't know how calling out assholes is "Marxism", but I guess the Marxists approve of that interpretation.

[QuebecOverCanada]

6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

It seems like a good message to me......what parts of the ad are you specifically against?

Let's say there is a company that claimed the same message, but to the opposite sex.

'Women have to behave better. Women will be better by not being money hungry whores that divorce from rich men and not manipulate everyone's emotions'

What do you think?

 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

8 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

As a white man, I'm sick of people suggesting that campaigns against bullying and sexual violence are attacks against white men. No, it isn't. It's an attack against assholes. I don't know how calling out assholes is "Marxism", but I guess the Marxists approve of that interpretation.

Sure, men have to be remembered to not harass women and not be bullies.

Because if they were not told, they would be.  Thank you Gillette for being the moral high ground, after reports state that you exploit children overseas.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Let's say there is a company that claimed the same message, but to the opposite sex.

'Women have to behave better. Women will be better by not being money hungry whores that divorce from rich men and not manipulate everyone's emotions'

What do you think?

 

I think that is less of a problem than both male-on-male AND male-on-female violence combined.

But if you feel it's more of a problem, then I think you should definitely get on that campaign. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

Just now, Goddess said:

I think that is less of a problem than both male-on-male AND male-on-female violence combined.

Gillette thinks that as well.

So do the other corporations, academia and the clown in my profile picture.

[Goddess]

Just now, QuebecOverCanada said:

Gillette thinks that as well.

So do the other corporations, academia and the clown in my profile picture.

You still haven't said which parts of the ad are offensive to you.  Or is it just the whole campaign you disagree with?  You seem to disagree that the issue being addressed in the ad is even a problem.  Why?

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You still haven't said which parts of the ad are offensive to you.  Or is it just the whole campaign you disagree with?  You seem to disagree that the issue being addressed in the ad is even a problem.  Why?

The ad is implying that all men need to remembered not to be bullies and not to sexually harass, just like it is part of their nature to be these things. It's incredibly insulting to all of us.

We never imply that all women need to be taught a lesson on how to not manipulate others for example, yet it's a negative characteristic of femininity, just as bullying and raping is a  negative characteristic of masculinity.

Edited January 16, 2019 by QuebecOverCanada

[Goddess]

17 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

The ad is implying that all men need to remembered not to be bullies and not to sexually harass, just like it is part of their nature to be these things. It's incredibly insulting to all of us.

We never imply that all women need to be taught a lesson on how to not manipulate others for example, yet it's a negative characteristic of femininity, just as bullying and raping is a  negative characteristic of masculinity.

I think you mean "reminded" not remembered.  

I don't think it implied ALL men are like that at all.  It seemed to me that a lot of the video was actually geared towards good men/good fathers, reminding them that this is still a problem and that all you good men out there can help in eliminating it by calling out the ones who still need to learn.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Goddess
typo, it's always a typo

[QuebecOverCanada]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think you mean "reminded" not remembered.  

I don't think it implied ALL men are like that at all.  It seemed to me that a lot of the video was actually geared towards good men/good fathers, reminding them that this is still a problem and that all you good men out there can help in eliminating it by calling out the ones who still need to learn.

I'm French, excuse my poor English, but thank you for correcting me.

You seem to forget that it only implies that one sex has to do things to change, like it is the problematic sex. Like always. 

[Goddess]

42 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

I'm French, excuse my poor English, but thank you for correcting me.

I saw you're French, so I figured it was just a translation thing.  

 

 

Quote

You seem to forget that it only implies that one sex has to do things to change, like it is the problematic sex. Like always. 

You seem to forget that men are the problematic sex in this issue.  And it's a TV ad - it's not a documentary, so it's not going to go into all the side issues.

It's always amusing to me how many men take women's issues and suddenly become irate about men's issues.  It's not saying that women don't have any problem issues.  The same as when we say "Save the rain forests", no one is implying "Fuck all the other kinds of forests."

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

You seem to forget that men are the problematic sex in this issue.  And it's a TV ad - it's not a documentary, so it's not going to go into all the side issues.

It's always amusing to me how many men take women's issues and suddenly become irate about men's issues.  It's not saying that women don't have any problem issues.  The same as when we say "Save the rain forests", no one is implying "Fuck all the other kinds of forests."

When we talk about women's issues, we imply that there are issues living as a woman -not being a woman being the problem-. I have never ever seen something pushed by cultural Marxists that was remotely saying that women had issues of  character that had to be taken care of. Never. Find me an advertisement about what I just described. One. It doesn't exist.

But with men, free ride. Teach men how not to be rapists. Teach men how not to be bullies. Because if you don't teach those things; men are going to be those.

And explain to me, why the focus on men with the BBQs in line saying 'boys will be boys'? 

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

 

And explain to me, why the focus on men with the BBQs in line saying 'boys will be boys'? 

Because that is a common excuse for when men behave badly.  Also, the ad seemed to me to address BOTH male-on-male violence and male-on-female violence.

I see you're offended that male violence is being addressed in the ad.  Is it because you feel it should have addressed violence from both sexes or do you not agree that male-on-male violence and male-on-female violence are issues?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Goddess

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Because that is a common excuse for when men behave badly.  Also, the ad seemed to me to address BOTH male-on-male violence and male-on-female violence.

I see you're offended that male violence is being addressed in the ad.  Is it because you feel it should have addressed violence from both sexes or do you not agree that male-on-male violence and male-on-female violence are issues?

Violence does exist, in various forms. Bullying exists. Rape does exist. Some males do those things, but they are far from the majority of males to do it. Just so a minority of females are harpies and gold digging whores. Both sexes do things that are unacceptable.

So for me it's two things;

1) To amalgamate all the issues of violence/social transgressions to masculinity or 'toxic masculinity' is simplistic, and to reduce it to one gender is just trying to put the working class against one another (men versus women), period.

2) We hear this message everywhere against 'toxic masculinity'. Everywhere. No one dares to call out women on their own undesirable behaviours. 

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

No one dares to call out women on their own undesirable behaviours. 

LOL

I may agree with you on this one - to an extent.  Women are generally called out for their appearance and for behaviours that are considered an asset as a man, but undesirable for females.

Women have been targeted for self-improvement from the time advertising was invented.  

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gillette-ad-toxic-masculinity-outrage-1.4979651

 

Quote

 

To be fair, men are sometimes presented as the buffoon in ads, such as the bumbling dad who doesn't know how to change the toilet paper roll. But these characters are often presented in a lovable, humorous way.

And Statten says when men aren't the buffoons, they're often what Gillette used to present them as — masculine superstars.

"It's the macho man. It's a man's man. When you're a man's man, you get the ladies, that's what you're being told."

 

A new message

But now, men are being sent a new message about masculinity and its pitfalls. It has caught some off guard and left them feeling offended. 

Boesveld says their sentiment is misguided because the Gillette ad isn't trying to paint all men with the same brush.

"It kind of distracts from the actual message of the ad, which is, 'Hey, let's just do better on the whole. We're not saying you are a monster. We're just saying as a culture, we can do a bit better.'"

Stratten agrees and says, as a man, he doesn't understand the outrage. 

"[The ad is] saying, 'This is how the problem was caused, and we need to step up and do better.'

"If anybody has a problem with that, you need to get your head checked."

 

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

LOL

I may agree with you on this one - to an extent.  Women are generally called out for their appearance and for behaviours that are considered an asset as a man, but undesirable for females.

Women have been targeted for self-improvement from the time advertising was invented. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gillette-ad-toxic-masculinity-outrage-1.4979651

Men are too. The difference is nobody is gong to do an ad showing women bullying other women, or destroying men, or beating children, or using their looks to get what they want from a man they aren't the least bit interested in and having some other woman step in and say "Don't be that bitch".

Edited January 16, 2019 by Argus

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

LOL

I may agree with you on this one - to an extent.  Women are generally called out for their appearance and for behaviours that are considered an asset as a man, but undesirable for females.

 

Which behaviours are women really called out for, and I mean called out by politicians, greedy corporations, lawyers and the academia institution to an extent to which they talk about males behaviours?

Give me an example from the 2ks. I'm waiting, patiently.

[Goddess]

54 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Which behaviours are women really called out for, and I mean called out by politicians, greedy corporations, lawyers and the academia institution to an extent to which they talk about males behaviours?

Give me an example from the 2ks. I'm waiting, patiently.

Is this because you perceive the Gillette ad as "attacking" men, so you now need to divert attention from that by  "attacking" women?  Talking about men's issues is touching a bit of nerve for you, I think.

LOL

Kind of ironic, given the Gillette ad was talking about some of the ways that  men invalidate women........

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Is this because you perceive the Gillette ad as "attacking" men, so you now need to divert attention from that by  "attacking" women?  Talking about men's issues is touching a bit of nerve for you, I think.

LOL

Kind of ironic, given the Gillette ad was talking about some of the ways that  men invalidate women........

Let me reassess the arguments we presented to each other.

You asked me if I believed that males did exhibit aggression toward males and females. I replied that yes, but there is a societal focus that is only on men and calling masculinity 'toxic'.

You tell me that calling out men's bad behaviour doesn't make it so that women's negative behaviours aren't acceptable. Yet, I have never, ever seen an ad saying that 'women should behave that way to be a good woman'. I asked you if you had an example of the latter. You have none. You know why? Because you're not realizing there is an agenda.

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yet, I have never, ever seen an ad saying that 'women should behave that way to be a good woman'.

I think it's because violent men are more of a problem in society than violent women.

The same reason most breast cancer ads/campaigns are for women - men get breast cancer too.  But the majority of breast cancer is in women, so the majority of campaigns are geared for women.

Same thing for violence.  Women are violent, too.  But the majority of violence in the world is perpetrated by men.

That's why this particular issue is geared more towards men.

I don't believe this ad constitutes a conspiracy against men.

Also, if you feel it doesn't apply to you, you can always ignore it. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Goddess

[QuebecOverCanada]

5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I think it's because violent men are more of a problem in society than violent women.

The thing is, you either digress totally from my point, or you don't quite get where I'm at. Of course males display 'violence' more than women. 

Women exhibit 'toxic' behaviours as well as men do and sometimes are accomplices. Say what you want, but a manipulating cunt can ruin a life much worse than an ass whoop for example. Yet, no one calls out the cunt. 

Get it?

Edited January 16, 2019 by QuebecOverCanada

[GostHacked]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Also, if you feel it doesn't apply to you, you can always ignore it. 

I do for the most part. Every day I see something that tells me I should be ashamed to be 1) a man 2) white 3) whatever they can come up with

[QuebecOverCanada]

9 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I do for the most part. Every day I see something that tells me I should be ashamed to be 1) a man 2) white 3) whatever they can come up with

Look at the comments for Gillette's advertisement, and the like/dislike ratio (322K likes, 695K dislikes)

'My wife's boyfriend loved this. Thank you! ' (referring to supporters of Gillette and its commercial as cucks, which is kind of right)

'Thanks for the moral advice, multi-national company that was recently caught profiting off forced child labour and price fixing.'

'Coming from a life time Gillette user, I won't be buying ur stuff anymore. Nice job attacking men when they're 99% of ur customers.'