Why isn't Canada helping to promote democracy?

[Montgomery Burns]

This is about a week old, but here goes:

Toronto, Canada - Friday, 26 August 2005 - According to the Department of Foreign Affair’s new International Policy Statement (IPS) “Canada will focus on making a distinctive contribution to help build a more secure world, in particular with regard to failed and fragile states.”

“If Iraq is not a failed state in need of help, what is?” asked Prof. Salim Mansur, Senior Fellow, Canadian Coalition for Democracies (CCD). “This is a pivotal time for Iraqis, and it is essential for Canada to be a player in Iraq, rather than just a distant donor.”

Canada’s pledge of $300 million for Iraq reconstruction in 2003 was a positive gesture, but today, as Iraqi leaders forge ahead to create their country’s new interim constitution, Canada is nowhere to be found.

We're still pissed off at the US stopping the gravy train/blood money that our Prime Minister's family, Jean Chretien, was receiving from France's TotalFinaElf oil company - a company that was in bed with Saddam Hussein.

Canada not only declined to participate in efforts to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein’s tyranny, Canada remains almost invisible at a moment in history when Iraqis need the support of every democratic country to consolidate their sacrifices for freedom,” said Rochelle Wilner, Senior Vice President, CCD. “While Canada sees its role as ‘distinctive’, it is essential that we coordinate our involvement in democracy-building with the Iraqi, American, British and Australian administrations to make sure we optimize our efforts and minimize risk.”

“Why has Canada not been more visible, more forthcoming and more committed to providing support for a democracy that will certainly open a new and promising chapter in contemporary Middle Eastern history?” asked Wilner. “Now is the time for Prime Minister Paul Martin to support the Iraqi people as they work to build a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the heart of the Middle East.”

This is Canada, Rochelle Wilner. We have more important things to do, like changing the 2000 year definition of marriage, despite the majority of Canadians being against this. Gay marriage is the single most important thing to Canada's Liberal Party. Screw those dumb "mericans and their so-called fears about "terrorism". What terrorism? Don't these morons listen to Michael Moore? There is no terrorism.

We're liberal, Rochelle. Hear us roar.

Given Iraq’s monumental achievement of agreeing to a “democratic, federal, republican system” of government which protects individual rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and electoral rights, it is important to hear what specific plans Canada has to help solidify and secure Iraq’s democratic foundations. Canada would be joining a coalition in Iraq that includes Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, and United States. These coalition members realize that if terrorism wins in Iraq, then terrorism will be emboldened in all nations, including Canada.

Damn that Bush and his unilateralism! :angry:

“A free and democratic Iraq will be a responsible partner with Canada and other democracies in securing peace and stability in the Persian Gulf region, an area of immense strategic importance to Canada and the world,” added Mansur. “The Iraqi people have borne a heavy burden getting to this stage. Canada must not fail them now.”

“CCD urges the Canadian government to do our part by living up to our own International Policy Statement and joining the coalition working to build democracy in the new Iraq.”

Yeah right. That would make Canada like America; an absolute no-no in Quebec and Ontario. If America is spreading democracy, Canada is against it.

We're liberal, baby; don't you forget it.

Saddam's blood money over democracy

[Shady]

Well, I disagree with you that Canada isn't helping to promote democracy. However, I do agree with you that we should be doing much more. The Canadian presence in Afghanistan is a good thing. There are several reasons why Canadians aren't helping in Iraq.

A lack of a competent and funded military.

A lack of real leadership.

A lack of vision, to see the long-term instead of just the short-term.

And most importantly, our complete obsession for being liked, instead of doing the right thing, but risking being unpopular. It's placed us as one of the world's greatest fence sitters.

[Black Dog]

We're not in Iraq because it's none of our goddamn business.

[B. Max]

Because we are a country that harbors and caters to islamic terrorists. Who export that terror around the world. We are in fact a terrorists aircraft carrier.

[newbie]

Because we are a country that harbors and caters to islamic terrorists. Who export that terror around the world. We are in fact a terrorists aircraft carrier.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you feel that uncomfortable here, there is a country to the South more to your liking perhaps.

[Montgomery Burns]

We're not in Iraq because it's none of our goddamn business.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the Dept of Foreign Affair’s International Policy Statement saying, "Canada will focus on making a distinctive contribution to help build a more secure world, in particular with regard to failed and fragile states" is a bunch of BS?

Working to build a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the heart of the Middle East is "none of our goddamn business"?

[newbie]

To answer the thread question, Canada is in Iraq according to the International Policy Statement:

"In Iraq, Canada will continue to play a major role in reconstruction and development, chairing the international donors’ committee for that country."

Plus I think we're spread a little thin what with our efforts in other countries.

[Black Dog]

Because we are a country that harbors and caters to islamic terrorists. Who export that terror around the world. We are in fact a terrorists aircraft carrier

I know when I cater to terrorists, I always reccomend the salmon bisque.

So the Dept of Foreign Affair’s International Policy Statement saying, "Canada will focus on making a distinctive contribution to help build a more secure world, in particular with regard to failed and fragile states" is a bunch of BS?

Working to build a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the heart of the Middle East is "none of our goddamn business"?

It's as much BS as the claim that building a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the Middle East was the rationale behind the war on Iraq.

[err]

Canada not only declined to participate in efforts to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussein’s tyranny, Canada remains almost invisible at a moment in history when Iraqis need the support of every democratic country to consolidate their sacrifices for freedom,” said Rochelle Wilner, Senior Vice President, CCD. “While Canada sees its role as ‘distinctive’, it is essential that we coordinate our involvement in democracy-building with the Iraqi, American, British and Australian administrations to make sure we optimize our efforts and minimize risk.”

It's funny that the USA has never been interested in democracy in Saudi Arabia... The've given the Saudi royal family their guarantee, military protection, etc.. to prevent the possibility of a change of government....

It's also funny how, in the 1950s, the USA helped overthrow the democratically elected (Mossadegh) government of Iran because that government nationalized the country's oil, a move to help the people... and they loved the Shah of Iran... real democracy lovers...

Most people don't realize that Saddam Hussain actually treated most Iraqis better than portayed by the US press. All Iraqis had free health care under Saddam. All Iraqis had free post-secondary education.... Something that Bush won't ever give Americans.... But you won't see the Bush-lovers ever mentioning things like that....

“Why has Canada not been more visible, more forthcoming and more committed to providing support for a democracy that will certainly open a new and promising chapter in contemporary Middle Eastern history?” asked Wilner. “Now is the time for Prime Minister Paul Martin to support the Iraqi people as they work to build a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the heart of the Middle East.”

This is Canada, Rochelle Wilner. We have more important things to do, like changing the 2000 year definition of marriage, despite the majority of Canadians being against this. Gay marriage is the single most important thing to Canada's Liberal Party. Screw those dumb "mericans and their so-called fears about "terrorism". What terrorism? Don't these morons listen to Michael Moore?

Speaking of morons.... The War on Iraq was about OIL... Control of Iraqi OIL.... Even the USA admits that there is no link between Al Queda and Iraq (other than the letter "Q" that they both share)

American actions against Iraq have actually increased the number of terrorist incidents dramatically since the illegal invasion... according to the Pentagon....

Given Iraq’s monumental achievement of agreeing to a “democratic, federal, republican system” of government which protects individual rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and electoral rights, it is important to hear what specific plans Canada has to help solidify ... blah, blah, blah....... United Kingdom, and United States. These coalition members realize that if terrorism wins in Iraq, then terrorism will be emboldened in all nations, including Canada.

There was no terrorism in Iraq until George Bush brought it there...

“CCD urges the Canadian government to do our part by living up to our own International Policy Statement and joining the coalition working to build democracy in the new Iraq.”

Yeah right. That would make Canada like America; an absolute no-no in Quebec and Ontario. If America is spreading democracy, Canada is against it.

Thank God that Canada is not like America.... America is using morons like you who are stupid enough to think that their war was about democracy.... to try to make them look like their illegal invasions was in some way justified.

First their war was about "weapons of mass destruction"... then it was disproved, it was about "the War on Terror".... and when that was disproved it was about "bringing democracy" to the middle east... It's too bad there are so many gullible morons out there.... because anyone with half of a brain should be able to see through this one....

[feloniusteabag]

Dear Shady,

A lack of a competent and funded military.

A lack of real leadership.

A lack of vision, to see the long-term instead of just the short-term.

And most importantly, our complete obsession for being liked, instead of doing the right thing, but risking being unpopular. It's placed us as one of the world's greatest fence sitters.

I agree with most of these points, but 'doing the right thing' is subjective. It was deemed that joining the US in invading Iraq was 'the wrong thing', (or at least, 'the wrong way to go about it').

[Black Dog]

A lack of a competent and funded military.

A lack of real leadership.

A lack of vision, to see the long-term instead of just the short-term.

And most importantly, our complete obsession for being liked, instead of doing the right thing, but risking being unpopular. It's placed us as one of the world's greatest fence sitters.

You know, it wasn't until I got to point number 4 that I realized he was talking about Canada.

[err]

What the United States did to Iraq had nothing to do with democracy or the "war on terror".... However, if we were to look at the situation in the middle east, we might see why some Islamic fundamantalists want to hurt the United States. We don't have to look far from Iraq either...... Just south to Saudi Arabia.

The ruling monarchy in Saudi Arabia made a deal with the United States some 50 years ago. While all of the specifics of the deal were never made public, some were all too obvious:

The United States would protect the Saudi monarchy from any challenges (including democracy) in return for guaranteed access to Saudi Arabia's oil. The American oil companies would also build roads, hospitals, etc... to keep the people from revolting....

Except for a brief spell (1973-1974), the Saudi's kept their word. In this time, the Saudi royal family bowed to public pressure to retaliate for the USA's support of Isreal. Any repetition of "energy crisis" that resulted would be considered a "national security" issue. This set the seeds for the idea of not just having ACCESS to oil, as they though they had assuredly from Saudi Arabia, but they wanted CONTROL of oil.... and Iraq looked like the perfect fit, with at least 10% of the world's oil reserves.

The 9/11 attack (planned and carried out by Saudis) came right after the USA started a buildup of "infidels" (American soldiers) on Saudi soil, right after Bush got into office. (The buildup that was part of the plan for the take-over of Iraq, a plan devised by the "Dick Cheney task force on energy" starting in the spring of 2001, in which Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, and other oil companies provided advice in top secret meetings).

The 9/11 attacks had nothing to do with "hatred of freedom", as some morons have suggested. The attacks surely had more to do with the hatred of the control that the "imperialistic forces" had on Saudi Arabia.... the imposition of the "American way" on Muslims, and the American support for Isreal....

If your view that "democracy" and/or "freedom" is the imposition of American values and way of life on Muslims, then yes, they don't want it.... And spreading of this type of "democracy" is not something that Canada should be participating in...

[Freshinit]

The Canadian Liberal Government has chosen to set it's priorities elsewhere. If America wishes to see support from this sovereign nation, they should learn to spread international aid more thoroughly. The bush has turned the media into a bundle of propaganda. Using scare tactics to win support, Bush has left the average American in utter indoctrination. On a global scale the situation in Iraq is relatively small, so why is the American Government putting so much priority on this one country?

I can't seem to connect the dots,

ACTION: 2000 deaths on Sept 11th

REACTION: 8 years of aggressive American foreign policy

[Montgomery Burns]

It's as much BS as the claim that building a strong, self-sufficient democracy in the Middle East was the rationale behind the war on Iraq.

Only the communistica-left would call building a democracy in the Mid East "BS".

err:

It's funny that the USA has never been interested in democracy in Saudi Arabia...

And if they did, the left would be screaming bloody murder - just like they did with Iraq.

Most people don't realize that Saddam Hussain actually treated most Iraqis better than portayed by the US press.

In pictures - Saddam treating Iraqis well

All Iraqis had free health care under Saddam. All Iraqis had free post-secondary education.... Something that Bush won't ever give Americans....

Free free free. Gimmie gimmie gimmie everything for free. I want free stuff from the "everything is free" fairy.

Healthcare and post-secondary education is not free.

And Saddam killed 1.5 million (a conservative estimate and not counting the war he started agaisnt Iran) of his citizens during his 25 year rule; 60,000/year.

I'm going to take a wild guess and state that I believe that Err is a socialist who believes in stealing from the productive and giving to the non-productive, so they can everything for "free" - courtesy of the productive.

Speaking of morons.... The War on Iraq was about OIL... Control of Iraqi OIL....

Apparently you missed the memo where the US turned over ALL of the Iraqi oil operations to the Iraqi govt. Didn't Michael Moore mention that?

Even the USA admits that there is no link between Al Queda and Iraq (other than the letter "Q" that they both share)

Now you're drowning in the Kool-Aid. The US has repeatedly said that Al Qaeda and Iraq were linked. There is absolutely no doubt. This is an undisputed irrefutable fact.

I've got better things to do than type all the evidence again. I suggest you look at the end of the Ann Coulter thread where I beat Black Dog....like a Dog, and forced him to give up like a broken beaten Black Dog.

American actions against Iraq have actually increased the number of terrorist incidents dramatically since the illegal invasion... according to the Pentagon....

Since the Islamopussies can't beat the US in face to face combat, they have to resort to acts of terrorism against the innocent Iraqi people trying to establish a democracy.

That is why terrorism has increased. All the better to have most of them in one spot to track and whack them.

There was no terrorism in Iraq until George Bush brought it there...

Saddam owned and operated a full-service general store for global terrorists, complete with cash, diplomatic aid, safe haven, training, and even medical attention for terrorists.

Thank God that Canada is not like America....

And that is why Canada is unimportant in this world.

America is using morons like you who are stupid enough to think that their war was about democracy....

You really really hate those brown-skinned Iraqis, don't you? Your contempt for them is disgustly racist. They are nothing but subhuman second-class savages to you, who deserve nothing better than to live under the heel of a mass-murdering dictator, right? :angry:

to try to make them look like their illegal invasions was in some way justified.

Do you have any idea how dumb you sound? Enforcing a broken ceasefire and 17 Chapter VII (binding) UN resolutions is "illegal?"

First their war was about "weapons of mass destruction"...

I suggest you read The Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq . This is the title of a resolution passed by both the House and the Senate, with Democratic as well as Republican majorities. It has a total of 23 clauses. These 23 clauses spell out the rationale for the war. Out of all 23 clauses, there are only 2 that even mention stockpiles of WMD. What the resolution did stress – in 12 separate clauses – were 16 UN resolutions that that Saddam had ignored or defied.

The Fox News Channel has reported this numerous times. What the hell? Do you get all your news from Canada's state-run, taxpayer-funded, Soviet-style CBC?

[err]

It's funny that the USA has never been interested in democracy in Saudi Arabia...

And if they did, the left would be screaming bloody murder - just like they did with Iraq.

They have a deal with Saudi Arabia to keep democracy out....

Apparently you missed the memo where the US turned over ALL of the Iraqi oil operations to the Iraqi govt.  Didn't Michael Moore mention that?

I think you'd have a long way to go to find a more gullible nitwit than you....

Even the USA admits that there is no link between Al Queda and Iraq (other than the letter "Q" that they both share)

Now you're drowning in the Kool-Aid. The US has repeatedly said that Al Qaeda and Iraq were linked. There is absolutely no doubt. This is an undisputed irrefutable fact.

Is the proof just hidden with the invisible weapons of mass destruction ???

I've got better things to do than type all the evidence again.  I suggest you look at the end of the Ann Coulter thread where I beat Black Dog....like a Dog, and forced him to give up like a broken beaten Black Dog.

Are you on drugs ??

And Saddam killed 1.5 million (a conservative estimate and not counting the war he started agaisnt Iran) of his citizens during his 25 year rule; 60,000/year.

And how many did the USA kill.... They've got the record... they fried 140,000 Japs in just a few milliseconds. But more specifically, in Iraq, they USA killed over 500,000 babies between the first and second wars... by not allowing anyone to bring in water purification equipment..... The USA has killed how many tens of thousands of Iraqis in their quest for oil...But I suppose you think that's ok.

How about the 100,000 American citizens who Bush lets die every single year by not providing health care... At least Saddam did that much...

How about the USA's assistance in gassing the Kurds.... The Democrats tried to block the sale of the helecopters Saddam was going to use to kill the Kurds, but the Republicans blocked the bill, (Prevention of genocide act). So the USA helped kill those people... how are they morally superior in this case... because they didn't actually fly the choppers ????

Since the Islamopussies can't beat the US in face to face combat, they have to resort to acts of terrorism against the innocent Iraqi people trying to establish a democracy.

Are these the same Islamopussies who took out the World Trade Centres ???

Do you get all your news from Canada's state-run, taxpayer-funded, Soviet-style CBC

Canadian style ?? I think you are a bit confused. Maybe you should go lie down....

[Shakeyhands]

Is that the most recent reason for invading Iraq? Ok thanks, it was getting difficult to keep track there... appreciate the help!

[Guest eureka]

I see that err answered your latest tantrum so I need not bother. I do, though, apologize for my mistaken impression of you on another thread. There, I wrongly implied that you are not a half-wit.

[Black Dog]

Only the communistica-left would call building a democracy in the Mid East "BS".

You sure love those made-up terms, hey? "LLL", "neocoms", etc etc.

But to the point: the very idea that the U.S. is interested in building a democracy in the Mid East is b.s.

And if they did, the left would be screaming bloody murder - just like they did with Iraq.

I doubt democratic reform in Saudi Arabia would require military force, the destruction of the country and the deaths of tens of thousands. Mor elike a phone call here, a few cheques withheld there...

Free free free. Gimmie gimmie gimmie everything for free. I want free stuff from the "everything is free" fairy.

Healthcare and post-secondary education is not free.

You're drooling, I can tell.

And Saddam killed 1.5 million (a conservative estimate and not counting the war he started agaisnt Iran) of his citizens during his 25 year rule; 60,000/year.

Actually the number is 600,000 civilian executions, plus around 500,000 in the Iran-Iraq war. The vast majority of these occurred during a period when Saddam was a client of the U.S., particularly during the reign of Saint Ronnie.

Now you're drowning in the Kool-Aid. The US has repeatedly said that Al Qaeda and Iraq were linked. There is absolutely no doubt. This is an undisputed irrefutable fact.

I've got better things to do than type all the evidence again. I suggest you look at the end of the Ann Coulter thread where I beat Black Dog....like a Dog, and forced him to give up like a broken beaten Black Dog.

I know you love patting yourself on the...back, but there's only so many times one can read the same NewsMax bullshit before realizing the futility of dicussing it. The simple fact is the Bush adminsitration has shied away from making any strong claims as to an Iraq-Al Qaeda conection. They've flatly denied any link with Iraq and 9-11 and, at best, have painted a rough sketch that puts Al Qaeda members in Iraq, but have offered no dpcumentary evidence of a collaborative relationship. If such a relationship could be proven, then there's no doubt the Bushies would seize on it. The simple fact that the one group that would benefit the most from publicly pushing your ramblings has, for the past three years, declined to touch it with a ten-foot pole, leads to the conclusion that the "evidence" you've presented is nothing more than a paranoid conspiracy theory advanced by the Cult of George.

Oh and the quote function is super-easy to master.

Burn'd again.

[newbie]

Can we PLEASE say goodnite to this bloody Al Qaeda-Hussein rumour? It is here in black and white. ("We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.")

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Jun16.html

[canuckcat]

The best way for Canada to help promote democracy is to take a hard line against the current US administration that does not promote democracy anywhere - even at home. This whole 'promote democracy' mantra is little more than a lie to cover the arses of the US and Great Britain in their latest military fiasco. These are exceptionally large arses and thus this is an exceptionally large lie.

[Sir Chauncy]

Forcing a way of life on a country is not giving that country freedom, but giving it "Your way of life" whether they want that way of life or not.

No one ask Iraqis what they wanted. No one asked America to invade Iraq and butcher hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, men, women, children. No one asked America to dump Depleted Uranium all over the country so that Iraqi's will continue dying horrible deaths forever.

Show me the "freedom" that Washington is "giving" Iraq.

Washington wants to control Iraq, period. Israel wants Iraq controlled, period.

Freedom is a word bantied around by the Bush administration like chicken at dinner time today. It is meaningless gobblygook, something to instill trust in Bush with his people, his supporters.

The election in Iraq was certainly no show of freedon. No one knew who was even running because of safety reasons Washington said so voters voted blindly for those they didnt know.

And lo and behold, a Washington approved Government.

Canada does not need to get involved in Washingtons bid at tyrany, and power playing.

What do you want Canadians to do, go in there and start killing Iraqis like Americans and Brits and Israelis are doing, start torturing them, imprisoning them without charges.

Get real, Canada has made our nam as a peacekeeping country. We gained world recognition as peacekeepers.

We are not a warmongering Nation of thieves like Washington.

When America/Israel.Brits leave Iraq Canada will be there to help if help is needed. We do not need to enter a war of choice , of Bush's choice.

Other then that fake election, show us the freedoms Washington has given Iraq.

Death is freedom today I guess.

Sir Chauncy

[Sir Chauncy]

And Saddam killed 1.5 million (a conservative estimate and not counting the war he started agaisnt Iran) of his citizens during his 25 year rule; 60,000/year.

_______________

NO, America killed one point five million over a decade through their sanctions that allowed no medicines etc etc etc into Iraq.

One and a half million dead, directly attributible to those sanctions.

Yes, I know they were UN sanctions, UN sanctions that Washington bullied the UN into adopting. But the dead and their survivors know where the real blame lies, in Washington and Israel.

Sir Chauncy

[Sir Chauncy]

The best way for Canada to help promote democracy is to take a hard line against the current US administration that does not promote democracy anywhere - even at home. This whole 'promote democracy' mantra is little more than a lie to cover the arses of the US and Great Britain in their latest military fiasco. These are exceptionally large arses and thus this is an exceptionally large lie. rolleyes.gif

_____________

Nice post Canuckcat

Sir Chauncy

[mcqueen625]

Martin on behalf of Canada signed some kind of trade deal with the President of China, Human Rights abuses did not seem to matter to Martin as long as China comes in and takes over what's left of our industries. They've started on the oil patch of Alberta, once they haev our oil, will it be our water next that Martin bargains away, or just al of our mineral resources.China can then process them and sell Canada back the finished product while Canadian's wind up working in call-centres.

[mcqueen625]

And Saddam killed 1.5 million (a conservative estimate and not counting the war he started agaisnt Iran) of his citizens during his 25 year rule; 60,000/year.

_______________

NO, America killed  one point five million over a decade through their sanctions that allowed no medicines etc etc etc into Iraq.

One and a half million dead, directly attributible to those sanctions.

Yes, I know they were UN sanctions, UN sanctions that Washington bullied the UN into adopting. But the dead and their survivors know where the real blame lies, in Washington and Israel.

Sir Chauncy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's not forget something here, yes they were U.N. sanctions and it was member states like Germany, Russia, France. Blegium and probably a few more that allowed Saddam Hussain to get around those sanctions and use that money to buy weapons and other illegal contraband with oil sales that was supposed to be spent on medicine and food for the Iraqi people. This corruption reached all the way to the highest levels of this supposedly unbiased world organization. Koffi's own son was involved is this scandal, and so were a lot more including our own PM.

Let's also not forget the fact that the U.N. although supposedly unbiased funded the manufacture and distribution of Bumper Stickers, Mugs and T-Shirts to Palestinians bearing the slogan 'Today Gaza, Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalam." Their excuse accoring to The Canadian Free Press was that they did not know what the money was being spent on because it was funnelled into an outside agency. This is supposedly an organization that is not supposed to be taking sides, but in fact they and their leader Koffi have been taking d=sides in this conflict all along, and it time for the U.N. to turf Koffi and his team and make this organization truly unbiased or stop funding it altogether and allow it to die the slow death it deserves.