43% of Albertan's and 36% of the West

[canuckcat]

This thread is even more proof that Stephen Harper and his Alberta conservatives are in bed with the Quebec separatists...

the question is who will fuddle duddle who?...

you'll need some paper bags...

[fellowtraveller]

If Quebec leaves, the question will be: does the rest of Canada carry on as before?

I think the answer from the West will be a resounding 'no'. Why would nany of the remaining 8 provinces join a federation that would be even more totally dominated by Ontario? Perhaps this will be an opportunity for us to be forced to think and act more prudently on our future than we have in the past. Perhaps we could create the kind of nation that would be of interest to a republic like Quebec- and wouldn't that be the ultimate irony?

[crazymf]

All we need in Alberta is a good alternative to our federal government and we're gone. These guys have some good ideas

http://www.separationalberta.com/

but Hutton sounds more like a white hooded KKK member than a leader. He wants to institute 'European' values as a moral base for a new nation.

I like these guys better

http://www.republicofwesterncanada.com/index2.html

but the movement seems to be stalled.

[BHS]

All we need in Alberta is a good alternative to our federal government and we're gone. These guys have some good ideas

http://www.separationalberta.com/

but Hutton sounds more like a white hooded KKK member than a leader. He wants to institute 'European' values as a moral base for a new nation.

I like these guys better

http://www.republicofwesterncanada.com/index2.html

but the movement seems to be stalled.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many seperatist movements have you guys got out there? It's no wonder the Liberals don't take Western seperation seriously. Divide and be conquered, lads.

[Slavik44]

1. http://www.separationalberta.com/

***We believe that the traditional family is the cornerstone and substantive foundation upon which a healthy society is built and our policies will reflect these features.***

Which is it, they say they wan't less government, Referendums to decide controversial issues, a gurantee of equality, and free votes in legislature.

But then turn around and say there policies will reflect the belief of a traditional family. So that would basically mean a high level of Government involvement in personal lives of its constituents, as well as possibly going against their gurantee of equality for all...and they have made this underlying policy cornerstone with out a free vote in legislature or a referendum. I wouldn't call them anything special or anything new it seems like every Western/Albertan sepratist party contains that exact same dsiclaimer, "Freedom, Small governmnet, and no gays"

2. http://www.republicofwesterncanada.com/index2.html

I swear all I could think about was Jib Jab when I went on that site.

But it seems like everything on that site was a blatant attempt to set up a Conservative Utopia and U.S ass kisser country. Again we have a culture determined by the people, but we are already told what that culture is...an economy free of Government restrictions and a social life full of them. Strong Core values, Strong families, Improved idividual moral, family led education (home schooling?). And their ending quote of "This land was made for families". I swear I thought that site was a joke, from the picture of the horses to the Brainwashing of children and their use as spies on their parents, to An American flag with a mapleleaf, or their Message to Conservatives about the ruiling socialist elite, or their inability to spell Harper's first name, or there promise to follow the American way, or their claim that Canada is openly practicing Marxism.

They made the claim that 60% of Music must be Canadian content, that is a blatant lie...but I guess I shouldn't expect much more from such nut jobs.

It is 35% of music between 6-6 must be Canadian content. Ethnic stations need only play 7%, French language stations must play 65% of music in the French Language and 55% during 6-6...and then again you would expect a French Language station to want to play French music wouldn't you?

If anything I am very glad that movement has stalled.

[mowich]

Radical it may be but heartfelt just the same. Fifty-six years of promises given and promises broken, of industries and companies and headquarters being assigned to Quebec and Ontario.

I have lived in the West all my life and know all too well the treatment we get from the Federal government. Which brings me to the only solution I see possible for a united Canada. The devolution of federal power. It is time that the provinces took back the portfolios that were ceded during the first world war.

[mowich]

Quote

[How many seperatist movements have you guys got out there? It's no wonder the Liberals don't take Western seperation seriously. Divide and be conquered, lads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are already divided and conquered. Divided by the invisible line that exists in the mind of the Ontario power brokers which sits squarely on the border with Manitoba. We are conquered by the short sighted policy makers of Liberal and former Conservative governments. Quite frankly we will keep starting parties until we find one that suits the needs of all the provinces from Manitoba to British Columbia and Yukon.

[crazymf]

And of course, there's now been movement to martyr Louis Riel into some hero which could easily progress into a new groundswell of support for the west to rebuke the federal system even more.

We, the masses of western Canada are merely waiting, biding our time until we finally have had enough choking by Ottawa and a clear vision of our future without them evolves.

Or if Quebec goes, we go the next day no matter what, and everybody west of Sudbury comes with us.

[Drea]

Separatists are traitors and should be jailed as such.

Would any other country "put up with" citizens and politicians who want to destroy their country.

Pfft.

If you hate Canada, leave -- many countries around the world would gladly accept a Canadian immigrant.

Don't ruin the country that I love.

[!!!]

I've always wondered how the (provincial) NDP-voting folks of Saskatchewan and Manitoba and those B.C. hippies would get sucked into a union with uber-conservative Alberta.

Western separation=Alberta separation.

[Drea]

LOL

We were in Banff over the summer holidays and went to smoke a little doobie in the hotel room... in BC we would've just smoked it openly. But in Alberta we went so far as stuffing a towel under the door so no one in the hallway would smell it!

Didn't want those 'uber conservatives' to have a s**t fit and throw us BC hippies in jail!

[Guest eureka]

We have another one here! Provinces should "take back the portfolios they ceded."

What portfolios would they be? The history of Canada since 1889 has been the gradual seizing of "portfolios" by the provinces.

We had a strong central government for just the first quarter century of our existene. Well, somewhat longer than that since the provinces did not become master overnight. It has, however, become all downhill for Canada as a nation since then.

[mowich]

Separatists are traitors and should be jailed as such.

Would any other country "put up with" citizens and politicians who want to destroy their country.

Pfft.

If you hate Canada, leave -- many countries around the world would gladly accept a Canadian immigrant.

Don't ruin the country that I love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey what ever happened to free speech, a cornerstone of this country you say you love. We don't "hate" Canada we simply see it as a defunct union due to the imperialist attitudes of the East. Canada is still a country where people of many political persuasions have the right and freedom to express their views, at least it was last time I looked.

[mowich]

We have another one here! Provinces should "take back the portfolios they ceded."

What portfolios would they be? The history of Canada since 1889 has been the gradual seizing of "portfolios" by the provinces.

We had a strong central government for just the first quarter century of our existene. Well, somewhat longer than that since the provinces did not become master overnight. It has, however, become all downhill for Canada as a nation since then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's see now Natural Resources, Education, Health, Immigration to name a few. The exclusive right to tax for same. Many of the problems besetting the Federal government are due to their continuing hold on the powers that should rightly reside with the provincial governments. A federal government free of these concerns could dedicate itself to issues of international importance such as rebuilding our military.

[Riverwind]

Hey what ever happened to free speech, a cornerstone of this country you say you love.  We don't "hate" Canada we simply see it as a defunct union due to the imperialist attitudes of the East.  Canada is still a country where people of many political persuasions have the right and freedom to express their views, at least it was last time I looked. 

People who think separation is a solution are fundamentally lazy. It is hard to try an get a long with people you disagree with. It takes effort and compromise. Separatists like to create the illusion that if they can carve out a convenient piece of geography that only contains people they agree with then they will be happier. The trouble with that logic is carving peices of geography out of an existing country would require: 1) painful compromise that seperatists are incapable of 2) a war. If you believe that 1) is possible then it must also be possible to reform the federation without a breaking it up. If you believe that reform of the federation is impossible then you are advocating civil war.

[Guest eureka]

Let's see now Natural Resources, Education, Health, Immigration to name a few. The exclusive right to tax for same. Many of the problems besetting the Federal government are due to their continuing hold on the powers that should rightly reside with the provincial governments. A federal government free of these concerns could dedicate itself to issues of international importance such as rebuilding our military.

Natural Resources is a Provincial jurisdiction exclusively NOW. It was not always as the resources of all the terrirories that became provinces was federal responsobolity and that includes Alberta's oil.

Education is an exclusive Provincial jurisdiction NOW.

Health is an exclusive Provincial jurisdiction NOW except that the Provinces have agreed with the federal government to share the funding on conditions that are supposed to maintain National standards.

Immigration is and was a federal jurisdiction that has been partly delegated to the Provinces. Clearly such a power must be under federal control.

The exclusive right to tax "for same" does rest with the Provinces.

I realise that Health and education are too trivial for any national government to involve itself in them and that Canada should merely stand by and watch EVERY other country in the world addressing their national concerns in these areas. The federal government should be free of these concerns so that it can play soldiers.

[Montgomery Burns]

I wouldn't blame Alberta one bit if they seperated. The provinces have control over their own resources and they can do what they want with them. Alberta's conservative govt chooses to use their resources to make them the richest province in Canada. Saskatchewan's equally rich NDP govt refuses to use Sask's resources to make the standard of living higher for their citizens because they have the highest corporate tax rates in Canada, plus they are worried about disturbing the moose.

Note: This poll said that 43% of Alberta would "consider" seperating. Considering and doing it is a different ballgame, especially when Albertans have a roaring economy and are more interested in providing their families with a good future.

But if the feds try to implement another disasterous NEP program, then I think the shit will hit the fan. Albertans have not forgotten how the Liberal Party (and Lougheed by agreeing to the NEP program) destroyed Alberta's economy back in the 80s.

If it happens again, I suspect that Alberta will leave Canada. After all, the OECD predicts that Alberta would be one of the richest countries in the world.

I don't know why central Canada worries so much about Quebec leaving. Let Quebec leave if they really want to. They have been a drain on the Canadian economy for goodness knows how long.

[Guest eureka]

Someine said on another site, with reference to Iraq, that the spoils of war go to the victor. Thus the US is entitled to Iraq's oil

If that is so, then should we encourage Alberta to separate. Then Ontario could invade Alberta, and justifiably(?) take over its resources. Klein could also be deposed and Alberta converted to democracy.

[crazymf]

That was me.

And Ontario invading? Bring it on wimps. Don't forget that the gun laws have largely been ignored around here and we've got plenty of lead shot leftover to fill your buttcheeks.

While you're trying us on for size, Quebec will be having your women and taking over at your house.

HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[speaker]

)

People who think separation is a solution are fundamentally lazy. It is hard to try an get a long with people you disagree with. It takes effort and compromise. Separatists like to create the illusion that if they can carve out a convenient piece of geography that only contains people they agree with then they will be happier. The trouble with that logic is carving peices of geography out of an existing country would require: 1) painful compromise that seperatists are incapable of 2) a war. If you believe that 1) is possible then it must also be possible to reform the federation without a breaking it up. If you believe that reform of the federation is impossible then you are advocating civil war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The other question with separation is that once you start where do you stop? If for example 50% plus 1 of Albertans wanted to leave Canada I'm willing to wager that there would be locales where more than 50% would want to separate from the new Alberta. This would end up being similar to Balkanization and perhaps we will remember where that leads.

[rbacon]

This is why Alberta will leave Canada if we decide to go, to this list you can add, that Albertans do not have an equal vote. The deck is stacked electorally. PEI, has 130,000 people and gets 4 MP's. Alberta has 3,000,000 people and gets 28 MP's by Canada Math we should get about 90 MP's. Nova Scotia has 900,000 people and gets 10 Senators. Alberta has 3,000,000 people and gets 6 Senators. Even if Quebec's population dropped to 100,000 they would still get 75 MP's. This is a crooked system. Add in the fact that by 2010 it will cost each Alberta family of 4 an additional 20,000 dollars a year over and above any other Canadian family to call themselves Canadian. Just not worth it, that is a new pickup for one of us rednecks every 3 years. In Canada today you have a system were all power and right has been usurped by one man elected by only 30,000 votes, the Premier or Prime Minister of Canada. This one man appoints 50% of the government the Senate and they are all his faithful sychophants. He appoints the all powerful and secretive Star Chamber the Privy Council. They issue Orders in Council that become law beofre the ink is dry, and cannot be reviewed by the Commons or Senate. This one man appoints all judges both high and low accross the whole of the land, and they are Liberal and pay their due and allegiance to their master. This one man suffers the Head of the RCMP, the corrupt National Paramilitary Police Force to serve at his pleasure, unnacountable to no-one but the Premier at Ottawa. This one man appoints his Official Head of State for the 30,000,000 inhabitants and wage slaves of Canada. Canadians being too immature and incompitant to take part in a democratic selection. This man elected by 30,000 votes appoints the Heads of State of all the Sovereign Provinces. He appoints his friends and flakes and flunkies to administer and enjoy the perks of hundreds of Crown Corporations. This same man, in this case the Leader of the Liberal Party controls all aspects of our lives. The Liberal Party of Canada selected the Canadian Flag for you by Liberal committee, Canadians stood mute, the Liberal Party of Canada under Trudeau, the Commie Ass Kisser had Jean Chretien cobble up the Constitution of Canada for all of us, and at no time ever was any adult man or woman taxpayer ever allowed to vote for or against any Constitutional Document in the whole hiostory of Canada. No boys in and girls there is only one solution for us to obtain our Rights as Free Men and Women in Canada, and that is for Alberta to begin the process of dismantling the Kleptocracy and starting all over again. Were the Free Men and Women limit the Rights and Duties of Government. And were our Individual Rights always trump the rights of those who serve us. Canada is in noway a Democracy it is Rule by Imperial Decree.

[PocketRocket]

Wow. Could you possibly spew any more hyperbolic bile???

FYI, you don't convince someone to vote for your guy by engaging in long, poisonous tirades, but rather by showing how your choice would be better for the country as a whole, and for individuals as well.

[rbacon]

I could care less how you vote, if you strip away the facade of democracy in Canada, what I stated is what you actually have, Rule by Imperial Decree of the Elite.

[fellowtraveller]

Note: This poll said that 43% of Alberta would "consider" seperating. Considering and doing it is a different ballgame, especially when Albertans have a roaring economy and are more interested in providing their families with a good future.

But if the feds try to implement another disasterous NEP program, then I think the shit will hit the fan. Albertans have not forgotten how the Liberal Party (and Lougheed by agreeing to the NEP program) destroyed Alberta's economy back in the 80s.

If it happens again, I suspect that Alberta will leave Canada. After all, the OECD predicts that Alberta would be one of the richest countries in the world.

I don't know why central Canada worries so much about Quebec leaving. Let Quebec leave if they really want to. They have been a drain on the Canadian economy for goodness knows how long.

I disagree with the notion that another NEP will take Alberta out of Canada, the trigger will be Quebec separation.

Consider how Canada will look post 2007, without Quebec: Ontario will have 40%+ of the total population. The Maritimes will still be essentially dependent states. If an essential element of Albertas issues with Central Canada is the tyranny of the majority, a post 2007 Canada will be worse, not better. What happens then? Why would Alberta, BC, Sask or the rest look forward to a new Canada that would feature complete domination by Ontario?

Our country has some very serious and tough times ahead.

We need to be talking about these things now, as priority one on our national agenda. Who knows, if we can overhaul our system of governance enough to keep Quebec- unlikely as that seems now.

[PocketRocket]

I could care less how you vote,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fact that you've been a member here for 5 years, and yet have such a low post count, combined with the fact that at election time you show up to create numerous partisan posts, mostly hyperbole with little substance, and additionally, are abusive to the intelligence of other posters, gives lie to this claim.