Paul Emery Arrested in Canada by order of USA DEA

[crazymf]

Emery's seed selling emprie is alleged to be the world's largest, with annual revenues claimed at around $2.5 million US. It was profits from the seed company that allowed Emery to finance the BCMP, as well as publish Cannabis Culture magazine and operate Pot-TV on the Internet.

Big scumbag.

Assumption:

"Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof"

So no, I have not produced facts to refute your assumptions. I'm not doing your homework for you.

[Trial-and-Error]

I'm just pointing out the lack of priorities, and the misplaced outrage. When a Canadian journalist is killed by Iranian officials, you people barley make a sound. However, you have no problem coming to the defense of a drug dealer. Just an observation. I guess if it doesn't involve the American government, it's just not important.

What a load of crap. There was a huge outcry from the left over the Kazemi affair.

Are there laws in America which prohibit the sale and/or distribution of marijuana seeds?

The answer, yes.

Did Emery sell and/or distribute marijuana seeds in the United States?

The answer, yes.

No further questions.

The question, though, is if it is a crime here in Canada. That's how extradation works, see. Now, since Emery was going about his business for some time with the full knowledge of the Canadian authorities, I think there's a case to be made that, sinc ethe authorities allowed him to operate, the alleged offense doe not constitute a crime worthy of extradition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Blackdog, you're much better at this than I am. What you say is correct, but I'm thinking we need to look even deeper at the hypocricy which exists in the U.S. concerning drugs, Period. The stats are staggering with regard to how many people sit in their prisons on simple marijuana charges. So many lives are being ruined by bad drug laws and no useful purpose is served.

Moreover, there is simply no proof whatever (that I've read about--but correct me if I'm wrong) that marijuana is as bad as alcohol. A bad law is a bad law and should be fought against vigorously. Moreover, as I mentioned earlier, there is evidence to suggest that the proceeds of drugs peddled by the CIA have been used to fight "wars" that Congress would not fund. It angers me so. I am loathe to have this current administration trying to strongarm our officials to have Emery extradited. Your point, of course, is well taken.

[crazymf]

So many lives are being ruined by bad drug laws and no useful purpose is served.

I don't know any statistics on that, do you? Let's say you are somewhat correct for the time being. I wonder how that compares to the lives wrecked by bad drugs?

I've heard the argument that seat belts kill people too and the laws should be revoked. They might actually kill a few by trapping people underwater etc, blah, blah. Compared to how many they save, the number is most likely insignificant.

I think the comparison is valid for this discussion.

The issue between the left and the right here is not so much the drug laws or whether they are fair. I tend to accept them as is and you do not. I guess they just aren't important to me as I haven't touched the stuff since high school in the 70's and couldn't care a less. People that use are of course going to want a relaxing of the laws. Again, I wouldn't care a bit if the laws were changed, but they aren't right now.

[Shady]

Moreover, there is simply no proof whatever (that I've read about--but correct me if I'm wrong) that marijuana is as bad as alcohol

That's an entirely different point, and has nothing to do with Emery's breaking of American drug laws. Mr. Emery knew of the laws he was breaking. He, out of free choice, chose to break them. Actions have consequences. These consequences could mean jail time.

[Black Dog]

Big scumbag.

Assumption:

"Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof"

So no, I have not produced facts to refute your assumptions. I'm not doing your homework for you.

So you actually believe that Emery was able to conduct his buisiness in the open, and, given his previous run ins with the law, the feds were oblvious?

I'm not asking you to do my homework, but support your position. It's clear that you can't.

[BHS]

Off the cuff thought on the matter:

Perhaps our feds were letting him operate freely to poke a finger in the American governement's eye, and they're co-operating with the US now because it suits them to do so (for whatever reason) and they don't really care what happens to Marc.

[Black Dog]

Perhaps our feds were letting him operate freely to poke a finger in the American governement's eye, and they're co-operating with the US now because it suits them to do so (for whatever reason) and they don't really care what happens to Marc.

I think their allowance of his activities had more to do with a general loosening of attitudes towards such offenses.

[BHS]

I think their allowance of his activities had more to do with a general loosening of attitudes towards such offenses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's undoubtable that Canada has a looser attitude towards drugs, and I fully expect to see pot legalized or at least decriminalized in my lifetime. I'm not particularly pleased with the status quo, where (as you've pointed out) possession is still illegal but only enforced if the authorities have a beef or some alterior motive.

If I had my druthers pot would be sold in liquor stores and coke/heroin/meth possession would get you a year in solitary, minimum. They are not the same thing.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Black Dog,

I think their allowance of his activities had more to do with a general loosening of attitudes towards such offenses.

I have to agree. The reform of marijuana laws are reputedly just around the corner, so the gov't will be faced with issuing many more pardons, just down the road, if they are going to decriminalize this term.

I, however, feel legalization is the only prudent course.

[BHS]

On a related note, I also think home distilling (of ethanol, for personal consumption or as a fuel additive) should be legalized. It's been legal in New Zealand since 1996. It's not as dangerous as it's been made out to be. A properly made batch of moonshine has less methanol in it than commercial whiskey, and apparently if you use molasses as your sugar base the final product is methanol-free.

[crazymf]

Big scumbag.

Assumption:

"Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof"

So no, I have not produced facts to refute your assumptions. I'm not doing your homework for you.

So you actually believe that Emery was able to conduct his buisiness in the open, and, given his previous run ins with the law, the feds were oblvious?

I'm not asking you to do my homework, but support your position. It's clear that you can't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is getting circular. I stated my position, which is my opinion. You stated facts which were assumptions and then get on me for not producing facts to dispute.

Next...

[Black Dog]

This is getting circular. I stated my position, which is my opinion. You stated facts which were assumptions and then get on me for not producing facts to dispute.

Nope. I stated Emery was operating with the knowledge of the authorities. I pointe dout that given the size, scope and visibility of his business, plus his previous run ins with the law, there's no doubt that the authorities were well aware of his actions. The assumption that they choose not to act against him is a reasonable one, which can be inferred from the known facts. You are proposing that, despite the facts above, Emery was operating on the fringe, without the knowledge of law enforcement. Your interpretation has even les sfactual support than my assumptions.

[crazymf]

Your interpretation has even les sfactual support than my assumptions.

OK then.

I think we'll leave right there folks.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Do some research, Lazymf. Emery even went as far as to claim his income as revenue from "Marijuana seed sales." Right on his tax forms.

[crazymf]

http://www.emeryseeds.com/

http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/08/11/MarkEmery/

http://freemarc.blogspot.com/

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/4482.html

A lot of good was accomplished through all of that struggle, trial and tribulation. In 1994, there were no hemp stores, no activist activity, no medical marijuana program, no pot retail industry, not even legally obtained books and magazines about marijuana in Canada. Now, eleven years later there are over 75 hemp activist stores, literature and magazines were made legal, medical marijuana is legal, the hemp industry is in a revival. Marijuana legalization and the drug war have been discussed in the Canadian media every day for the past ten years. Regulations continue to improve for Canada’s medical cannabis program.

A lot of good for who? You could only agree with these kind of statements if you are pro dope.

Marijuana is a 7 to 15 billion dollar industry in Canada, where hundreds of thousands of us, perhaps half a million people, are growing marijuana, and selling marijuana. Millions and millions of Canadians and Americans consume this marijuana. Canadian growers, dealers, and seed sellers deal with Americans every day. Now we could all be extradited, because if you have any minor connection to any marijuana transaction that leads to the USA, you are liable to be considered party to a conspiracy to import marijuana into the United States. That’s certainly bringing the US drug war into Canada in an incredible and dangerous way. Everyone in the cannabis culture in Canada is now at much greater risk by this precedent set.

Maybe you're right and I didn't do enough research. This guys not a scumbag at all. He's bigger than a scumbag. He is THE dirtbag of Canada. As far as the tax comment, the Canadian federal government dropped the ball regarding this idiot big time. However, that's what our government does so well I guess.

Keep this in mind while you whine about the Americans and their laws. A battalion of women and children from the US military could overwhelm our military and be in charge of Canada any time at the drop of a hat. None of us would have any say about that at all and some of us wouldn't much care. If the Canadian government can't keep the house clean, someone might do it for them, starting with drug kingpins like Marc Emery.

As far as distorting my handle and throwing personal insults around at me. Stow it. Even you guys can get a little more grown up than that I would hope. Let's keep the conversation in the topic. It's more fun that way.

[crazymf]

This is getting circular. I stated my position, which is my opinion. You stated facts which were assumptions and then get on me for not producing facts to dispute.

Nope. I stated Emery was operating with the knowledge of the authorities. I pointe dout that given the size, scope and visibility of his business, plus his previous run ins with the law, there's no doubt that the authorities were well aware of his actions. The assumption that they choose not to act against him is a reasonable one, which can be inferred from the known facts. You are proposing that, despite the facts above, Emery was operating on the fringe, without the knowledge of law enforcement. Your interpretation has even les sfactual support than my assumptions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I actually said was

"There's lots of fringe companies around. I had some whacko in my business the other day wanting me to retail this stuff to my clients."

Referring, or reefering if you prefer (hehe) to the fact that even though there are drug laws and dope is illegal, people are skirting and flirting the law with products that aren't directly maybe illegal, but are used for illegal purposes.

Also, where's Mr. Emeries money? Where's the millions of dollars he's made? As with any drug kingpin, I'm sure it's stashed somewhere and now the poor slob wants his mindless followers to support his legal costs. He's no crusader but merely a bloodsucker sucking off the wallets of needy drug addicts and growers who need seeds to feed them their dope.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear BHS,

I also think home distilling (of ethanol, for personal consumption or as a fuel additive) should be legalized. It's been legal in New Zealand since 1996. It's not as dangerous as it's been made out to be. A properly made batch of moonshine has less methanol in it than commercial whiskey, and apparently if you use molasses as your sugar base the final product is methanol-free.

Have at 'er. I prefer beer myself. Just a hint, try to keep your 'still' away from combustibles and populated areas. Beer is so much safer to home-brew, I haven't heard of anyone needing a skin-graft from a brewing accident yet!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear crazymf,

He's no crusader but merely a bloodsucker sucking off the wallets of needy drug addicts and growers who need seeds to feed them their dope.

'Reefer Madness' was not a factual documentary.

[BHS]

Have at 'er. I prefer beer myself. Just a hint, try to keep your 'still' away from combustibles and populated areas.  Beer is so much safer to home-brew, I haven't heard of anyone needing a skin-graft from a brewing accident yet!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I was going to do it I wouldn't post about it on the web. But you're right - 95% pure is as combustible as gasoline, so anyone persuing this pastime should be sure to follow the same safety procedures regarding storage and handling that you would for gas.

[shoop]

Also, where's Mr. Emeries money? Where's the millions of dollars he's made? As with any drug kingpin, I'm sure it's stashed somewhere and now the poor slob wants his mindless followers to support his legal costs. He's no crusader but merely a bloodsucker sucking off the wallets of needy drug addicts and growers who need seeds to feed them their dope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brilliant.

That was the first question I had when I saw that a Mark Emery legal defence fund had been started.

Dude is a multi-millionaire. Appears to me that the whole circus about impingement on Canadian soveriegnty is a front to have suckers pay for a multi-millionaires legal bills.

[PocketRocket]

'Reefer Madness' was not a factual documentary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but at the time it was produced and released, it was made out to be factual.

It actually had a lot of influence on both the general public who saw the movie, and also the law-makers of the time, none of whom knew the slightest thing about pot, and all of whom were influenced by it's blatantly false message.

If you look into your history on the evolution of pot laws, you'll find the financier of the movie was also behind the movement to ban pot, even though he too knew little or nothing about weed.

[crazymf]

Dear crazymf,

He's no crusader but merely a bloodsucker sucking off the wallets of needy drug addicts and growers who need seeds to feed them their dope.

'Reefer Madness' was not a factual documentary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was commenting from here. These are his own words:

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/4482.html

"Now I live at your pleasure. Any money I use to live on will be charitable donations from people like you. Pot-TV, CC Magazine, the BCMP: they cannot be giving me money. I returned my rented car, moved into a small affordable apartment, and am selling my furnishings. I work every day and have no leisure time.

If you believe that this record of service to our culture merits your support, then I will tell you that we can use your support."

[Black Dog]

You're a crank, mf.

Maybe you're right and I didn't do enough research. This guys not a scumbag at all. He's bigger than a scumbag. He is THE dirtbag of Canada. As far as the tax comment, the Canadian federal government dropped the ball regarding this idiot big time. However, that's what our government does so well I guess.

I thought you right wingers were all for business and entrepeneurship. Here's a guy who built a hugely successful business by cornering a section of the marketplace. He did so without using violence (unlike the Hell's Angels, and other violent organizations who are kept in business largely because of drug prohibition) and he paid his taxes. Emery should be the toast of the right (and indeed, in some free-thinking conservative circles, is). So I 'd have tyo say your virulent overreaction to his actions can only be ascribed to some kind of moral judgement on the products he deals in. i wonder if you are as equally quick to condemn the scumbags in teh tobacco and liquor industries, who's products cause more harm and suffering than any manevolant dope dealer could dream of. Somehow I doubt it: after all, their poison is legal!

Keep this in mind while you whine about the Americans and their laws. A battalion of women and children from the US military could overwhelm our military and be in charge of Canada any time at the drop of a hat. None of us would have any say about that at all and some of us wouldn't much care. If the Canadian government can't keep the house clean, someone might do it for them, starting with drug kingpins like Marc Emery.

Non sequiter.

Drug kingpin?

Also, where's Mr. Emeries money? Where's the millions of dollars he's made? As with any drug kingpin, I'm sure it's stashed somewhere and now the poor slob wants his mindless followers to support his legal costs. He's no crusader but merely a bloodsucker sucking off the wallets of needy drug addicts and growers who need seeds to feed them their dope.

Despite allegations that he laundered millions of dollars, Emery said he donated nearly all of the profits from his business -- between $3 and $4 million -- to marijuana-related activism.

Among his recent donations was $50,000 given to legalization campaigns in Nevada and Alaska.

Link.

[crazymf]

I thought you right wingers were all for business and entrepeneurship. Here's a guy who built a hugely successful business by cornering a section of the marketplace. He did so without using violence (unlike the Hell's Angels, and other violent organizations who are kept in business largely because of drug prohibition) and he paid his taxes. Emery should be the toast of the right (and indeed, in some free-thinking conservative circles, is). So I 'd have tyo say your virulent overreaction to his actions can only be ascribed to some kind of moral judgement on the products he deals in. i wonder if you are as equally quick to condemn the scumbags in teh tobacco and liquor industries, who's products cause more harm and suffering than any manevolant dope dealer could dream of. Somehow I doubt it: after all, their poison is legal!

We've been through this. You know my position. No need to do it again.

Despite allegations that he laundered millions of dollars, Emery said he donated nearly all of the profits from his business -- between $3 and $4 million -- to marijuana-related activism.

Yep, Emery 'said' he donated nearly all of his profits. That's a substantial fact there BD. Good one!

Listen, all I said was I think he's a scumbag because what he does is illegal. You can try to make the argument that it isn't, but nevertheless, he was still in jail because the man thought it was. Let's theorize for a sec that what he does isn't technically illegal. He promoted grow operations and supplied the means to help drug traffickers ply their trade. He openly promoted dope lifestyle. He might be compared to a pied piper of dope for young people, leading them by the hand down the path of dopism.

He makes himself out to be some kind of crusader for the lifestyle. As far as I'm concerned he's a criminal that got too big for his britches. The government dropped the ball with him, but now it's time to pay. The DEA merely tapped our government on the shoulder, said "Ahem" and helped them realize the guy needs to come down.

I'm done with this thread and will merely watch what happens now. If he goes away for life, good. If he doesn't, good for you. I've listened to your opinions and can respect them. Too bad you can't respect mine for what they are.

I think he's a scumbag, you don't, whatever.

[Black Dog]

Yep, Emery 'said' he donated nearly all of his profits. That's a substantial fact there BD. Good one!

Well,s eeing as how I don't exactly have access to his recipets, that's the best we got. And, given the distinct lack of support you've offered for your own opinions, Emery's word is as good as yours.

Listen, all I said was I think he's a scumbag because what he does is illegal. You can try to make the argument that it isn't, but nevertheless, he was still in jail because the man thought it was. Let's theorize for a sec that what he does isn't technically illegal. He promoted grow operations and supplied the means to help drug traffickers ply their trade. He openly promoted dope lifestyle. He might be compared to a pied piper of dope for young people, leading them by the hand down the path of dopism.

Dopism? Are you for real?

He makes himself out to be some kind of crusader for the lifestyle. As far as I'm concerned he's a criminal that got too big for his britches. The government dropped the ball with him, but now it's time to pay. The DEA merely tapped our government on the shoulder, said "Ahem" and helped them realize the guy needs to come down.

Do you think 10 to life is a reasonable punishment for his crimes?