Paul Martin

[Argus]

PM scolds Klein over controversy.

Gotta like Martin's reaction. Sooooo typical. He gets into trouble and what does he do?

Attack the boogeyman Ralph Klein.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical.

Confronting these rumours at their source-- Quebec-- would have taken gonads, so it goes without saying that Martin had to wait for Klein to weigh in before taking action.

step 1: make angry phonecall to Klein.

step 2: make sure somebody in the Toronto media knows about it.

Woo-hoo! Problem solved! And probably scores some extra popularity points in Toronto for taking Klein down.

-k

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's interesting the Star piece mentioned Klein in the headline, and no one else, yet Premier Lord of New Brunswick has been more vocal than Klein. However, he's a Maritimer and a Francophone. No points for attacking him. Using Klein immediately helps discredit the story to all those central Canada leftist idiots who'll simply smirk, shake their heads, and think of how the stupid Alberta rednecks are acting up again. Harper is mentioned in the story, as well, for he is another "enemy of the people and western redneck" I suppose, but no mention of Lord or other premiers. In fact, the story from the Citizen contains the following: The prime minister called Premier Klein to reassure us, but I don't think it's just a question of reassuring 13 premiers. It's a question of reassuring 30 million Canadians," said Mr. Lord, a francophone. So was this merely a call to Klein, or a call to the premiers themselves? Which wasn't even hinted at in the Star piece. Are the premiers meeting somewhere?

[shoop]

It's interesting the Star piece mentioned Klein in the headline, and no one else, yet Premier Lord of New Brunswick has been more vocal than Klein. However, he's a Maritimer and a Francophone. No points for attacking him. Using Klein immediately helps discredit the story to all those central Canada leftist idiots who'll simply smirk, shake their heads, and think of how the stupid Alberta rednecks are acting up again. Harper is mentioned in the story, as well, for he is another "enemy of the people and western redneck" I suppose, but no mention of Lord or other premiers. In fact, the story from the Citizen contains the following: The prime minister called Premier Klein to reassure us, but I don't think it's just a question of reassuring 13 premiers. It's a question of reassuring 30 million Canadians," said Mr. Lord, a francophone. So was this merely a call to Klein, or a call to the premiers themselves? Which wasn't even hinted at in the Star piece. Are the premiers meeting somewhere?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Premiers are meeting in Alberta. Their meetings are now a 'Council of the Federation'. Whoever is the host of the meeting is the chair of the Council. So Klein presented the premiers' joint statement, as protocol dictates he should.

I think Kinsella is right on this one. This story is going to have legs. How many commentators are reassessing their 'brilliaint' and 'inspired' assessments of Mr. Dithers choice at this point?

[August1991]

Far be it for me to defend PM PM, but the provincial premiers are meeting in Alberta and Klein is their host. Martin phoned Klein and asked him to pass on the message to the others. Martin also phoned Harper. (If I had been Harper, I would answered in monosyllables.)

The are many kinds of soft-nationalists. Many are people who have a strong affinity for the Quebequois culture and Canada but are constantly bombardered with seperatist propaganda telling them that the Quebequois culture will dissappear unless Quebec becomes a seperate country.

Uh, well. Not really...

I was outraged at hearing the Jean was possibly a seperatist (and still think it is time all of these key appointments were taken out of the hands of the PMO and into light of parliment). However, after reflection, I realized close to 60% of French Quebequers voted yes in the 1995 referendum which means that excluding people who might of voted yes eliminates a lot of otherwise qualified soft-nationalist candidates.

And they should have been excluded. As you note, there are 40% of French Quebecers who voted No. There are many, many French-speaking Quebecers who are vociferous in their defense of federalism and Canada - people like Stephane Dion.

We are talking after all about the person who will be Canada's Head of State (or, to avoid Bambino's precision, Her representative).

I liked the way the Toronto Star described, using interposed quotes, the people behind this controversy:

"These are small people saying terrible things," said Scott Reid, Martin's director of communications. "And they're doing it for obvious reasons."

In Quebec, many say the hard-line sovereignists have no facts to go on and are simply attempting to provoke a crisis between Quebec and the rest of Canada.

"They're hoping that Michaëlle Jean will become a new martyr to the cause and that it will therefore help sovereignty," said André Pratte, editorial pages editor of the federalist newspaper La Presse. "The motive is to have some people angry in English Canada, force Paul Martin to change his mind and then make Quebecers, in their turn, be angry with what English Canada does."

Once again, if you criticize the Liberal Party, you are an evil nogoodnik, in bed with the separatists, Americans, whoever.

----

I don't know if Martin made this appointment out of sheer incompetence (he didn't know about Lafond's writings) or he blithely assumed that it didn't matter. Maybe Martin sincerely wants to have a "big tent Canada".

[shoop]

Once again, if you criticize the Liberal Party, you are an evil nogoodnik, in bed with the separatists, Americans, whoever.

----

I don't know if Martin made this appointment out of sheer incompetence (he didn't know about Lafond's writings) or he blithely assumed that it didn't matter.  Maybe Martin sincerely wants to have a "big tent Canada".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, Martin is so dull and unimaginative he falls back onto what barely saved his ass last year.

The appointment was totally a sign of incompetence. He has no agenda, no policies or no plans. He governs like an 8 year-old with ADD.

He tricked Layton into supporting him in the spring and screwed him completely. Brilliant. Doubtful the support will last much longer.

[Riverwind]

And they should have been excluded.  As you note, there are 40% of French Quebecers who voted No.  There are many, many French-speaking Quebecers who are vociferous in their defense of federalism and Canada - people like Stephane Dion.

Isn't Stephan Dion universially hated in French Quebec? If Martin really wanted to reach out to soft nationalists (the people who might vote yes on a 'soverienty association' question but no on a 'outright idependence' question) then a hard line federalist would be useless. He needed someone who could relate to these people.

I am sure that Martin did not know about the background of her husband, Martin is risk adverse to the point of incapacity and not the kind of person who would make bold risky choices.

[geoffrey]

Get rid of the GG. End of debate, end of controversy, end of endless taxpayers money hole. Nothing good has come from this position in many many years, it's time for a change in thinking. When something causes you that many problems and controversies nationally, it's time for it to kick off.

[shoop]

Isn't Stephan Dion universially hated in French Quebec? If Martin really wanted to reach out to soft nationalists (the people who might vote yes on a 'soverienty association' question but no on a 'outright idependence' question) then a hard line federalist would be useless. He needed someone who could relate to these people.

I am sure that Martin did not know about the background of her husband, Martin is risk adverse to the point of incapacity and not the kind of person who would make bold risky choices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Martin is stuck in a pretty hard place over this issue. The selection of Jean in light of her separatist leaning leaves only three possible conclusions about his actions before making the final decision to appoint her and one delighful conundrum for him.

1. He knew about her past but was arrogant or foolish enough to think that the optics of Jean's race and gender would over-shadow her questionable commitment to Canada. Evidence of terrible political judgment.

2. He didn't know about her past because his staff didn't perform the appropriate background checks. Evidence of incompetence in his administration which he is responsible for as he decides who his advisors should be.

3. He didn't know about her past because the RCMP hid it from him. (For all the conspiracy theorists out there.) Evidence that the Martinites have gone so far in the arrogance and pomposity that they have pissed off official Ottawa to the point where they are actually gunning to get him as viciously as possible.

Regardless of which of the three you choose, they all add up to one thing. Time for Mr. Dithers to go.

Mr. Dithers' conundrum. Should he dump Jean, stand by her or let her dangle in the wind?

If he dumps her, he adds to his well-deserved reputation for dithering. Yet, it is the best thing for the country in this case. (Oh that's right. What's best for the country is soooooo far down the list it never really enters into consideration.)

If he stands by her he takes the risk of looking bad if public opinion continues to grow against this questionable nomination. (Can't look bad in the public eye.)

If he lets her dangle in the wind he takes the heat off himself. Sure she is in a rough spot, but he isn't. If outrage goes she is gone. If it cools of she stays and he was behind her all the way.

Bye bye Mr. Dithers.

[Riverwind]

Martin is stuck in a pretty hard place over this issue. The selection of Jean in light of her separatist leaning leaves only three possible conclusions about his actions before making the final decision to appoint her and one delighful conundrum for him.

1. He knew about her past but was arrogant or foolish enough to think that the optics of Jean's race and gender would over-shadow her questionable commitment to Canada. Evidence of terrible political judgment.

I believe this is the correct conclusion - he was blinded by the fact that she appeared to be 'perfect' GG candidate. However, it is still possible that she can do a respectable job - if she clearly and publically states that she is committed to Canadian unitity and will work to bring the country closer together during her tenure. There are many examples of seperatists returning to federalism and we have absolutely no evidence what Jean's current feelings on the subject are and it is reasonable for us to take her at her word. In fact, here appointment could have been managed better if her first public comments had included such statements.

[kimmy]

I was outraged at hearing the Jean was possibly a seperatist (and still think it is time all of these key appointments were taken out of the hands of the PMO and into light of parliment). However, after reflection, I realized close to 60% of French Quebequers voted yes in the 1995 referendum which means that excluding people who might of voted yes eliminates a lot of otherwise qualified soft-nationalist candidates.

And they should have been excluded. As you note, there are 40% of French Quebecers who voted No. There are many, many French-speaking Quebecers who are vociferous in their defense of federalism and Canada - people like Stephane Dion.

All this seems to be based on the assumption that the GG had to come from Quebec. Is that so?

-k

[mirror]

Politically for the Martin Liberals because of their subtantial drop in support in Quebec the answer is yes. No other reason that that, I'm sure.

It is a shame that Mr Dithers didn't at least consult with the other 3 party leaders, prior to appointing Ms Jean as GG, especially seeing as he only has a minority government. He deserves every bit of this turmoil about his appointment. It looks good on him. Jerk!

[August1991]

All this seems to be based on the assumption that the GG had to come from Quebec. Is that so?

Fair point, but do people "come from" somewhere anymore? In the past several appointments, two were born in Saskatchewan and no one born in Quebec has been GG for almost 30 years. Jean was born abroad but I guess she's a Quebecer if we go by her medical card.

But you're right. There's never been a GG born in Newfoundland.

My reference to Dion was that upfront, unabashed federalists exist among French Quebecers. It seems to me that even an 8 year old can understand that the GG should be in favour of a united Canada, and there should be no doubt whatsoever about it. If the intent was to seek the so-called "soft nationalist vote", appointing Jean with a husband who sympathizes with people like Pierre Vallieres strikes me as completely counterproductive. Given the criteria evident in the choice of Jean, PM PM had oodles of people to choose from.

[shoop]

Politically for the Martin Liberals because of their subtantial drop in support in Quebec the answer is yes. No other reason that that, I'm sure.

It is a shame that Mr Dithers didn't at least consult with the other 3 party leaders, prior to appointing Ms Jean as GG, especially seeing as he only has a minority government. He deserves every bit of this turmoil about his appointment. It looks good on him. Jerk!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is definitely the conventional wisdom that Martin needs to bolster support in Quebec. There is the potential for a backfire on him though.

If you look at that environics poll the Liberals big drop in support would only cost them four seats at this point. But the three points they have slipped in Ontario have the potential to cost them far more seats. Appealing to Ontario voters might have been a shrewder move for him at this point. Hopefully taking Ontario for granted will come back and bite him in the ass.

[August1991]

Appealing to Ontario voters might have been a shrewder move for him at this point.

Your comment made me realize that PM PM was probably trying to do that with this nomination. Ontario Liberals saw Jean's CV and based on image, said "Great."

Trudeau (and Mulroney) always won seats in Ontario by presenting themselves as well connected in Quebec.

[Argus]

  Given the criteria evident in the choice of Jean, PM PM had oodles of people to choose from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many who were Black?

[shoop]

Your comment made me realize that PM PM was probably trying to do that with this nomination.  Ontario Liberals saw Jean's CV and based on image, said "Great."

Trudeau (and Mulroney) always won seats in Ontario by presenting themselves as well connected in Quebec.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

James Bartleman would have been an inspired choice. First Aboriginal GG. Would have done more to try and shore up the base in Ontario.

Bob Rae would have helped with Ontario voters too.

Don't really get why people in Ontario cared if Trudeau or Mulroney were connected in Quebec.

[Shady]

Bob Rae would have helped with Ontario voters too.

I highly doubt Bob Rae would help at all. Bob Rae was a miserable failure and every Ontario voter remembers his disasterous term in office. If anything, he'd do much more harm then good.

[BHS]

Politically for the Martin Liberals because of their subtantial drop in support in Quebec the answer is yes. No other reason that that, I'm sure.

It is a shame that Mr Dithers didn't at least consult with the other 3 party leaders, prior to appointing Ms Jean as GG, especially seeing as he only has a minority government. He deserves every bit of this turmoil about his appointment. It looks good on him. Jerk!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better watch it there. Suggesting the PM use a consultation process to find the best candidate is awfully close to Yankeeism.

[shoop]

Better watch it there. Suggesting the PM use a consultation process to find the best candidate is awfully close to Yankeeism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we know that it is easier for Mr. Dithers to attack America rather than actually institute a progrm of democratic reform.

[Canuck E Stan]

Just as Robert Stanfield was "the greatest prime minister we never had."

The Calgary Sun probably said it right in it's editorial about Paul Martin.

"Maybe history will one day remember Paul Martin as the greatest prime minister the country ever had, until he became prime minister."