More Conservative Corruption

[THELIBERAL]

Either the tape recorder man is lying or the Conservative party is lying on this one!

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...ewal050711.html

Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal is at the centre of another political storm. CBC News has learned that he is being investigated by the RCMP over irregularities in his 2004 election expenses.

Barj Dhahan, a Vancouver businessman, donated to Grewal's campaign expecting to get a tax receipt, but he never did. "I ended up saying that, you know, I think there's something fishy here."

David Orchard is still owed money from this bunch!

Edited July 12, 2005 by Greg

[Hawk]

Fair enough:

Conservative Debt to 2 people: 1,600 campaign contribution (supposedly)

Liberal Debt to society: Billions and rising

So tell me again how the Conservatives are so corrupt?

[Riverwind]

So tell me again how the Conservatives are so corrupt?

It is wrong to say all conservatives are corrupt because a single MP has some issues. However, the CPC is opposition and opportunities for misbehavoir are limited. If the CPC actually was gov't I am certain that Grewal would be only one of many CPC MPs that would be laid low by scandal.

What the Grewal eposide does prove is the anyone who believes in electing the CPC because the Conservatives are not 'corrupt' wlll be inevitably be disappointed since politics attracts some unsavoury people. On the other hand, politics does attrack some very nobel people (Chuck Cadman comes to mind) so the fact that some politicians are corrupt is not a reason to give up on the political process.

I think it is time to end these partisan 'guilt by assosiation' attacks since they tarnish the entire political process and, if polls are any guide, only serve to galvanize people who have already made up their mind for other reasons.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Fair enough:

Conservative Debt to 2 people: 1,600 campaign contribution (supposedly)

Liberal Debt to society: Billions and rising

So tell me again how the Conservatives are so corrupt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough:

Death toll caused by Fuhrer Hitler: 6 million+

Death toll caused by Chairmain Mao: 30 million+

So tell me again how Hitler was so bad?

[Argus]

Fair enough:

Conservative Debt to 2 people: 1,600 campaign contribution (supposedly)

Liberal Debt to society: Billions and rising

So tell me again how the Conservatives are so corrupt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's obvious the word has gone out. Grewal has embarrassed the Liberal government, so get him. The CBC news story on this was longer than any CBC story I've seen on the sponsorship scandal.

The fact is that if you investigate a lot of these ethnic candidates you'll find a lot of them playing fast and loose with the electoral rules. But is the CBC going to investigate Dosanjh, who by all accounts is a pretty sleazy, opportunistic guy? Not bloody likely. A couple of thousand bucks here and there is chicken feed, and the only reason they'd put it front page centre would be to protect the Liberals and target the Conservatives.

[I Miss Trudeau]

Yeah, it's obvious the word has gone out. Grewal has embarrassed the Liberal government, so get him.

Give me a break. Grewal has only embarrassed himself.

[Bro]

And what about the money in brown envelopes left on restaurant tables in the province of quebec?That was a liberal way of business,they are a smart bunch,no paper trail.

[Riverwind]

And what about the money in brown envelopes left on restaurant tables in the province of quebec?That was a liberal way of business,they are a smart bunch,no paper trail.

Acts committed by a few Liberals out of thousands of party workers - if those misdeeds mean that all Liberals are corrupt then Grewal's misdeeds mean that all Conservatives are corrupt.

[Bro]

Not quite eagle eye,the liberals are accused of systematic corruption,the conservatives are not.The other question that was never raised,why are these persons,both of similiar backgrounds,on the foerfront of some of the biggest scandals in Canadian politics?Which party is actually at fault here?

[August1991]

From linked CBC article above:

Barj Dhahan, a Vancouver businessman, donated to Grewal's campaign expecting to get a tax receipt, but he never did.

If Dhahan didn't get a receipt, why didn't he just ask for one? And why is he talking about this now, instead of several months ago? When did Dhahan submit his income tax statement? Did he declare the contribution?

This is utterly silly.

A serious allegation would be if Dhahan said that Grewal had promised to expedite a visa application in exchange for the money, or if Dhahan was kicking back a portion of a government grant Grewal had helped Dhahan obtain. And if the sums involved were not $1600 but more like $3.9 million, as a recent Fraser report concluded.

The CBC makes a lost receipt appear to be the equivalent of Gomery. "They're all a bunch of crooks anyway, but at least the Liberals will keep Canada together."

[Riverwind]

If Dhahan didn't get a receipt, why didn't he just ask for one?  And why is he talking about this now, instead of several months ago?  When did Dhahan submit his income tax statement?  Did he declare the contribution?

Get real, if a similar allegation was dug up about a Liberal MP the conservatives would have been howling for blood - their entire political strategy is based on convincing the public the Liberals are corrupt and the Conservatives are not. This is why the Grewal story is relevant: it contradicts the public image the the Conservatives are trying to manufacture.

[Redneck Yokel]

Fair enough:

Conservative Debt to 2 people: 1,600 campaign contribution (supposedly)

Liberal Debt to society: Billions and rising

So tell me again how the Conservatives are so corrupt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough:

Death toll caused by Fuhrer Hitler: 6 million+

Death toll caused by Chairmain Mao: 30 million+

So tell me again how Hitler was so bad?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't begin to compare the two things. In asking why hitler was so bad, you are throwing out a very general question with many many answers and aspects. In the case of Hawk's post, he was responding to a previously narrowed and specified subject (the handling of funds and the corruption associated with it in the canadian political system).

[August1991]

If Dhahan didn't get a receipt, why didn't he just ask for one?  And why is he talking about this now, instead of several months ago?  When did Dhahan submit his income tax statement?  Did he declare the contribution?

Get real, if a similar allegation was dug up about a Liberal MP the conservatives would have been howling for blood - their entire political strategy is based on convincing the public the Liberals are corrupt and the Conservatives are not. This is why the Grewal story is relevant: it contradicts the public image the the Conservatives are trying to manufacture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The CBC article is filled with innuendo but no accusation of wrong-doing. Dhahan tells us, one year after the fact, that he didn't get a receipt. That's like saying, "Last year, I went to McDonald's and bought a Big Mac. And you know what? I didn't get a receipt."

Now, if I stole the Big Mac or my friend behind the counter gave it to me, the story would very different. But nothing in the article states that.

If there is wrongdoing, then the journalist should have investigated the matter. This is a half-baked news article.

Meanwhile, we have concrete evidence that the Liberals diverted truckloads of frozen hamburger patties, and the CBC is concerned about a receipt for a Big Mac purchased last year.

[Riverwind]

The CBC article is filled with innuendo but no accusation of wrong-doing. Dhahan tells us, one year after the fact, that he didn't get a receipt.  That's like saying, "Last year, I went to McDonald's and bought a Big Mac.  And you know what?  I didn't get a receipt."

I actually heard the guy talking on the radio. He said quite clearly:

1) Grewal asked that the check made out to Grewel personally - this act itself is against the election act.

2) He repeatedly asked Grewal's riding association for a receipt and was told that there was no record of the transaction.

3) He has a record of Grewal cashing the check (i.e. he has evidence that the transaction occurred).

There are serious allegations here which fall into the same category as the allegations the Gomery inquiry is looking into even if on a smaller scale.

This story is really about how people living in glass houses should not throw stones.

[I Miss Trudeau]

In the case of Hawk's post, he was responding to a previously narrowed and specified subject (the handling of funds and the corruption associated with it in the canadian political system).

Sorry, I really take issue with this particular fallacy:

"Why are discussing if X is bad, when Y is so much worse!"

Look. Either you oppose corruption and the violation of law, or you don't. Don't give me this nonsense about "Who cares?! So and so is worse!"

[cybercoma]

Why were the checks made out personally instead of the party anyway?

[Leader Circle]

This is just another way for the red CBC to divert attention from the real scandal!

I think Grewal is a slug myself and was actually trying to buy himself a nice Liberal posting, but when he was not given any details of that posting, he decided to turn the table. He is an embarassment to the Cons and should be tossed aside.

What kind of a dumbass would write Grewal a personal cheque? If this guy was actually dumb enough to write this cheque to Grewal, he should be ashamed of it!

This story is way out there, but makes a nice tidbit for the lefties to argue about! Lots of corruption, but you have to have some perspective on the amount of cash here versus the sponsorship scandal.

[mirror]

Perhaps the money was given to Grewal prior to the election writ being dropped then apparently Elections Canada has no say in the matter.

Let's try and respect the moderator's request to not make blanket insults, and not tar the whole human race with such comments as "ethnics", all Liberals, all Conservatives, etc. when we make derogatory statements about someone's behaviour.

[August1991]

The CBC article is filled with innuendo but no accusation of wrong-doing. Dhahan tells us, one year after the fact, that he didn't get a receipt.  That's like saying, "Last year, I went to McDonald's and bought a Big Mac.  And you know what?  I didn't get a receipt."

I actually heard the guy talking on the radio. He said quite clearly:

1) Grewal asked that the check made out to Grewel personally - this act itself is against the election act.

2) He repeatedly asked Grewal's riding association for a receipt and was told that there was no record of the transaction.

3) He has a record of Grewal cashing the check (i.e. he has evidence that the transaction occurred).

There are serious allegations here which fall into the same category as the allegations the Gomery inquiry is looking into even if on a smaller scale.

This story is really about how people living in glass houses should not throw stones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I heard some guy talking on the radio... " This is your evidence?

You are welcome to be partisan but, as they say, don't believe everything you read in the newspapers.

[Riverwind]

You are welcome to be partisan but, as they say, don't believe everything you read in the newspapers.

I heard 'the' guy - i.e. the very person who is claiming that Grewal did not give him receipts. I did not hear a reporter, I did not hear a pundit. I heard the accuser say in his own words what he was accusing Grewal of not doing.

There is substance to this allegation that cannot be dismissed unless someone can show the accuser is lying. This is not an example of a reporter making something out of nothing.

[mirror]

Are you familiar with all the rules concerning making donations to a politician in Canadian federal politics. If you are not, and it doesn't sound like you are, you might want to be careful about your accusations. Did you listen to Stephen Harper's comments yesterday concerning these accusations? There are usually many sides to every issue.

[Riverwind]

Are you familiar with all the rules concerning making donations to a politician in Canadian federal politics. If you are not, and it doesn't sound like you are, you might want to be careful about your accusations. Did you listen to Stephen Harper's comments yesterday concerning these accusations? There are usually many sides to every issue.

From the CBC report:

The Conservative Party says two of the cheques went to a supplier for campaign expenses, although that's not the procedure required by the Elections Act.

As for the $1,000 cheque that was cashed, the party says it doesn't know who cashed it, but it was not Grewal.

It appears even the conservatives are admitting irregularities.

[CrazyCanuck]

Are you familiar with all the rules concerning making donations to a politician in Canadian federal politics. If you are not, and it doesn't sound like you are, you might want to be careful about your accusations. Did you listen to Stephen Harper's comments yesterday concerning these accusations? There are usually many sides to every issue.

From the CBC report:

The Conservative Party says two of the cheques went to a supplier for campaign expenses, although that's not the procedure required by the Elections Act.

As for the $1,000 cheque that was cashed, the party says it doesn't know who cashed it, but it was not Grewal.

It appears even the conservatives are admitting irregularities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't that like asking for a beating when you refer to a CBC report to back up a claim.

[mcqueen625]

If Dhahan didn't get a receipt, why didn't he just ask for one?  And why is he talking about this now, instead of several months ago?  When did Dhahan submit his income tax statement?  Did he declare the contribution?

Get real, if a similar allegation was dug up about a Liberal MP the conservatives would have been howling for blood - their entire political strategy is based on convincing the public the Liberals are corrupt and the Conservatives are not. This is why the Grewal story is relevant: it contradicts the public image the the Conservatives are trying to manufacture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THe truth here is that the Liberal's have been proven to be corrupt with testimony after testimony. If anyone really expects that Gomery is going to point fingers at a Liberal Minister or former Minister that is simply not going to happen, because the mandate itslf handed out by Martin to Gomery under I believe section (J) is not going to allow that to happen. That inquiry was simply a white-wash, just that Martin had no idea that the revalations would be quite so damning. Irregardless of that all that came out at Gomery was allagations and denials, no real facts were presented and Gomery is allowed to make a report on facts only!

I have no doubt that when the Gomery report is released, Martin will wave it in the air and say, Quote from an article in Canadian Free Press: "See Gomery couldn't convict anyone in the Liberal Party." Martin will then expect that this scandal will just go away, and die a quiet death. Never mind the fact that $millions of taxpayer's dollars were misappropriated by Liberal MP"s and Liberal appointed bureaucrats. The bottom line is they are still just a bunch of thieves and liars, from the PM on down.

[Riverwind]

THe truth here is that the Liberal's have been proven to be corrupt with testimony after testimony.

Absolutely no evidence has come out at Gomery that proves that all Liberals are corrupt. A few yes - even probably some senior Liberals like Gagliano. Furthermore, most of the most sensational testimony was by people with a strong incentive to twist facts to make themselves look better.

Irregardless of that all that came out at Gomery was allegations and denials, no real facts were presented and Gomery is allowed to make a report on facts only!

A judge in a public commission is allowed to report on facts only. You sound like you are nostalgic for the good old days of Senator Macarthy and the Salem Witch Trials.

I have no doubt that when the Gomery report is released, Martin will wave it in the air and say, Quote from an article in Canadian Free Press: "See Gomery couldn't convict anyone in the Liberal Party."

Rough translation: I don't care about the facts and the evidence I am want to lynch them anyways. I know it is difficult to comprehend but it is quite likely that PM PM had nothing to do with the corruption. It is also quite likely that he heard the rumours like everyone else but decided to stay deliberately as ignorant as possible until he could win the leadership and the clean up the mess. Is he a saint? No. Has he been fast and loose with the truth about how much he did know? Probably. Is he guilty of the deliberate theft of tax payer dollars: extremely unlikely.