The Failure of the Media in Canada

[Muddyw67]

By the way a Reform party MP did offer that it would be perfectly acceptable for a businessman to remove a visible minority from serving the public if someone found him/her objectionable. It cause quite a ruckus at the time I remember. It might have been under that wonderful cranky Prescott Manning who smelt of musty bibles and repressed masterbation even through the TV. I think he was from BC although I could be wrong.

I well remember this above incident in the news, however it was another MP not Preston Manning. The sad reality is that this is a lot more common than we are prepared to admit as our Canadian goodie two shoes image suggests.

Progressive people laugh when they hear Liberals and Conservatives going at it over their media representation or more to the point, their lack of it. The reality is the media apart from the CBC, are owned by big business so obviously the New Democrats are severely underrepresented.

Without wanting to turn this thread into another BS religious discussion, the New Democrats probably have more Christian ministers representing them in Parliament than any other party.

As far as Canada, or more precisely English Canada having some great journalists, some independent thinkers as opposed to following the sheep, try reading Paul Wells at Macleans, Chantel Hebert, James Travers, Linda McQuaig, and Carol Goar at the Toronto Star, and Heather Mallick & Rick Salutin at the Globe and Mail and Reverend Blair at Vive le Canada. They are there if you look for them.

BTW I thought the moderator here asked us to not insult each other. I think we need to respect his request.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes..I'm not sure who the Reform MP was but I thought this incident happened under Mannings tenure, not that the incident itself was of Mannings creation. Those journalist you mentions are excellent and I read them avidily-The Toronto Star seems to have a very good selection of journalists at this point in time. I hope I wasn't insulting anyone directly...I was I hope,deconstructing a belief system ,not disparaging the person who was defending these ideas.

[August1991]

Very interesting read, touching on difficult questions requiring delicate answers.

I thought the moderator here asked us to not insult each other. I think we need to respect his request.

Reading through this thread, and given its direction, I'm rather impressed. When it works, this forum is a place to argue - but with sharp claws.

Game on.

[Muddyw67]

Nope- wrong characterization- I deplore the burka and the oppression that it inflicts on females.

It's not about a "guy" going to church and quietly experiencing his faith in personal contemplation of the divine,  its the obnoxious intrusive paternalistic and obscene expression of these so-called God revealed truths into the discourse of a democratic society. Was it not the Reform Party that thought it was ok for a minority to be removed from serving customers in a store if offended some wasp customer? I personally think Christians are an aberrant cult who have inflicted incredible harm in the world, especially to non Europeans. However since we as a society have agreed that this cult has a legitimate status in our society I am willing to tolerate it providing they only abuse each other with their silly mythology. It is when they start to emerge from their pointed brick buildings or garish evangelical covens and start to bully their beliefs into the wider discourse that I have to object. I feel the same way incidentally about Scientologists just to show you that I am an equal opportunity skeptic. However I do believe most devotely in grey Aliens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Um, who wants to keep who in the back room now?

I gather you feel that all personal beliefs are off limit in political discourse. Which is a little limiting, you know? Considering that pretty much all of politics boils down to personal opinion. Just saying.

Also, skepticism is the philosophical refutation of absolute knowledge, and doesn't include a verbal tar-and-feathering job on people like my grandmother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that personal beliefs are off limit in a political discussion. Given that we all have them as you have observed it would mean that only scientific evidence could be used in discussion-that would mean I would have to use statistics-a thought that makes me cringe.

The thing is my friend that individuals who characterize themselves as Christians and I'll use this belief system as I am most familiar with it are coming from a place of "Divine" knowledge which if I understand it correctly means that it isn't subject to change or reevaluation in light of subsequent new understandings or insights. Potentially we all have the possibility of being persuaded by opposing arguments here even just novel insights here-but Christians do not have this possibility in their repetior as all biblical 'facts" are ordained by "God" -this makes for pretty frustrating discourse given the reluctance for the other side to ever be open to idea's outside this

paradigm. This sense of being the conduit of absolute knowledge appears to me to be the quintessence of arrogance and hubris and historical it has caused unbelievable misery for hundreds of thousands of people. I have given up trying to have any sort of free wheeling discussions with evangelical types because the conversation simply grinds to a halt on dogma.

Anyway... I'm sure your grandmother is a fine women completely undeserving of anything like a verbal tar and feathering from yours truly as was mine and she was also a believer as well, although we never let that come between us.

[Argus]

I personally think Christians are an aberrant cult who have inflicted incredible harm in the world, especially to non Europeans.

This is the kind of bigoted drivel I was referring to. Imagine if someone said:

"I personally think Jews are an aberrant cult who have inflicted incredible harm in the world."

Would anyone have any doubt what kind of mentality is behind such a quote?

Yet here we have an NDP supporter, ostensibly one of those oh-so-tolerent folk feeling perfectly free in making precisely the same remark only at a different target group.

"I personally think Sikhs are an aberrant cult who have inflicted incredible harm in the world."

I don't think you'd get the above poster to dare say this, especially at an NDP meeting! Has he even a clue about what bigotry means?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps if I said Christianity is an aberrant cult it would be less offensive and which is no less bigoted then saying Nazism is an aberrant cult which you might agree with. I expect that you might take issue with the comparison, but if we compared Nazi behaviour (much of endorsed by Christian cult followers by the way, including Lutherans and Catholics) and the behaviour of the various Christian cults throughout history, I wonder exactly what the differences, if any, would there be? Now it terms of Christianity's moral teachings, which ones were you referring to? How about "Judge not less you be judged?" I like that one. If someone offends you turn the other cheek, or love your enemies as you love yourself-another good one. The sense that the rich will have one hell of time getting into heaven that the mythological Jesus character discussed should send some sort of fear into Conservative capitalist true believers. How about the reoccurring theme of sharing with those less fortunate or the idea that accumulating wealth is bad for the soul? All wonderful moral ideas- I would welcome Christian cult followers to manifest these beliefs seriously in the world. Unfortunately they don't seem to want to do that do they? They wish to persecute gay people and deny them their civil liberties and boy do they ever judge their behaviours, especially their sexual ones which really gets them into a tizzy.I could offer you a Freudian interpretation of this effect but this would be a digression. Of course the Catholic Christian cult followers, while extolling sexual restraint on their followers, indulge in the most disgraceful and predatory sexual practices on children.. didn't the mythological Jesus character say :" suffer little children and let then come to him for protection?" Often Christian cult followers make grand statements about others they don't like by saying they are going to hell- That strictly speaking is blasphemy because it purports to assume they know what God is thinking about-a very bad thing in the zany world of Christian concepts.

I hope this clarifies my positions somewhat for you

You hope that preposterous mishmash of confused drivel will clarify something for me?

Let me see. You dislike the bigotry of religious people which is why you practice it against them. You dislike people who commit acts of hatred which is why you imitate them. You desperately wish Christians would be open minded, though you aren't, and tolerant, though you have none, and not be so judgemental of others - like you are.

Have I pretty much got that right?

-by the way I dislike all organized religions and think their all equally as aberrant as the Christian cult. I agree with Marx and Lennon "Religion is the opiate of the masses"...and "imagine no religion...its easy if you try..no hell below us above us only sky"

No doubt why Marx and Lennon decided to create a hell on Earth in Russia, and sentence tens of millions to torement, misery and death.

By the way a Reform party MP did offer that it would be perfectly acceptable for a businessman to remove a visible minority from serving the public if someone found him/her objectionable.

You claimed the Reform party said this, which was more raving nonsense.

Nor did a Reform MP "offer' this. He was specifically asked, repeatedly, despite his attempts to suggest it was a silly quesiton and would never happen, to answer this hypothetical suggestion from a "journalist". Unfortunately for him, the Reform MPs not being altogether as media savy as they should have, he actually did answer it truthfully rather than boot the "journalist" in the arse and tell her to get lost.

It cause quite a ruckus at the time I remember.

Yes, the "progressives" were horrified that this guy, an ex military general, was willing to move an employee into another room rather than nobly going into bankruptcy and thus having to let all his employees go.

although I could be wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only sane thing I've read in this post thus far.

[Argus]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that personal beliefs are off limit in a political discussion. Given that we all have them as you have observed it would mean that only scientific evidence could be used in discussion-that would mean I would have to use statistics-a thought that makes me cringe.

The thing is my friend that individuals who characterize themselves as Christians and I'll use this belief system as I am most familiar with it are coming from a place of "Divine" knowledge which if I understand it correctly means that it isn't subject to change or reevaluation in light of subsequent new understandings or insights. Potentially we all have the possibility of being persuaded by opposing arguments here even just novel insights here-but Christians do not have this possibility in their repetior as all biblical 'facts" are ordained by "God" -this makes for pretty frustrating discourse given the reluctance for the other side to ever be open to idea's outside this

paradigm. This sense of being the conduit of absolute knowledge appears to me to be the quintessence of arrogance and hubris and historical it has caused unbelievable misery for hundreds of thousands of people. I have given up trying to have any sort of free wheeling discussions with evangelical types because the conversation simply grinds to a halt on dogma.

Anyway... I'm sure your grandmother is a fine women completely undeserving of anything like a verbal tar and feathering from yours truly as was mine and she was also a believer as well, although we never let that come between us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Muddyw67? Have you ever heard of the term "puncuation"?

[BHS]

Oh the conservative movement has plenty of spine already. The vacancy is a little more to the north.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Big words, from someone who misses the guy who once took his sons to Siberia to show them where the future was being created.

[Muddyw67]

yes I have heard of "punctuation" and unlike you, I also know how to spell it.

[Muddyw67]

You hope that preposterous mishmash of confused drivel will clarify something for me?

Let me see. You dislike the bigotry of religious people which is why you practice it against them. You dislike people who commit acts of hatred which is why you imitate them. You desperately wish Christians would be open minded, though you aren't, and tolerant, though you have none, and not be so judgemental of others - like you are.

Have I pretty much got that right?

QUOTE

-by the way I dislike all organized religions and think their all equally as aberrant as the Christian cult. I agree with Marx and Lennon "Religion is the opiate of the masses"...and "imagine no religion...its easy if you try..no hell below us above us only sky"

No doubt why Marx and Lennon decided to create a hell on Earth in Russia, and sentence tens of millions to torement, misery and death.

QUOTE

By the way a Reform party MP did offer that it would be perfectly acceptable for a businessman to remove a visible minority from serving the public if someone found him/her objectionable.

You claimed the Reform party said this, which was more raving nonsense.

Nor did a Reform MP "offer' this. He was specifically asked, repeatedly, despite his attempts to suggest it was a silly quesiton and would never happen, to answer this hypothetical suggestion from a "journalist". Unfortunately for him, the Reform MPs not being altogether as media savy as they should have, he actually did answer it truthfully rather than boot the "journalist" in the arse and tell her to get lost.

QUOTE

It cause quite a ruckus at the time I remember.

Yes, the "progressives" were horrified that this guy, an ex military general, was willing to move an employee into another room rather than nobly going into bankruptcy and thus having to let all his employees go.

QUOTE

although I could be wrong.

The only sane thing I've read in this post thus far.

My My..such a noxious brew my friend...and talk about incoherent..hmmm...

Lets see... Do I practice bigotry against religious people? I don't think so. I simply reject their fatuous simplistic views from being used to discriminate against other peoples rights in a civil society. Apart from disliking religious organizations because of what I perceive as their limited understanding of the world and their rather unpleasant historical practices of hatred of those who are different from them I am a fairly tolerant open person. I will confess to being judgmental at times. I do have definite judgments about US foreign policy which imposes its will on peoples around the world because it suits their economic interests-guilty as charged.

I must point out a few glaring errors in your assessment of Marx and John Lennon. First of all Marx wasn't alive in 1917 when the Russian revolution took place. He actually imagined the communist revolution would take place in a more advanced capitalist society like Germany.

John Lennon was born in 1940 so he missed the Russian revolution by a good 23 years. I think you must mean Lenin although far be it for me to be judgmental in terms of your thesis.

"Unfortunately for him, the Reform MPs not being altogether as media savy as they should have, he actually did answer it truthfully... ah..a case of spontaneous honesty-not a good trait for a racist in this case.

I’ve enjoyed our little sparing my friend, although you should try not to take myself or yourself so seriously.

[Argus]

yes I have heard of "punctuation" and unlike you, I also know how to spell it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good to hear. Try using some.

[Argus]

My My..such a noxious brew my friend...and talk about incoherent..hmmm...

Well, hey, if I'm going to deal in noxious incoherence I'd best do it with someone who specializes in both, right?

Lets see... Do I practice bigotry against religious people?

I'm sorry. Did I lead you to believe that was a question? It was a statement of fact.

I don't think so. I simply reject their fatuous simplistic views from being used to discriminate against other peoples rights in a civil society.

That would be more understandable if your own views didn't need a ladder and a big boost up to reach the level of simplistic fatuousness.

Apart from disliking religious organizations because of what I perceive as their limited understanding of the world and their rather unpleasant historical practices of hatred of those who are different from them

Which you strive to emulate, of course, while demonstrating your own slick, sophisticated view of the world, something about on a par, thus far, with your average anti-globalistic windshield smasher.

I am a fairly tolerant open person.

Demonstrably untrue.

I will confess to being judgmental at times. I do have definite judgments about US foreign policy which imposes its will on peoples around the world because it suits their economic interests-guilty as charged.

As opposed to whom?

I must point out a few glaring errors in your assessment of Marx and John Lennon. First of all Marx wasn't alive in 1917 when the Russian revolution took place. He actually imagined the communist revolution would take place in a more advanced capitalist society like Germany.

John Lennon was born in 1940

Excellent example of fatuousness. Thanks

Gee, I've reached the end and I still haven't found any genuine content. What a surprise.

[mirror]

Muddyw67? Have you ever heard of the term "puncuation"?

Wherever did you learn to spell?

Take about calling the kettle black.

Perhaps you would do well to take our moderators suggestion to "stop with the insults" to heart, as these kind of comments will drive good people away from here, and will destroy this discussion board.

If you are sincerely wanting to improve things things here use the PM system to make suggestions to people rather than putting these criticisms out front in public.

[Argus]

Muddyw67? Have you ever heard of the term "puncuation"?

Wherever did you learn to spell?

Take about calling the kettle black.

As is evident to all, there is no spell check feature on this group, and most of us dash off notes without taking a lot of time to ensure there are no spelling errors. However, spewing out a long, rambling load of nonsense without any kind of sentence structure makes it very difficult to figure out what the poster is trying to say. That's a bit above spelling the occasional word wrong.

Perhaps you would do well to take our moderators suggestion to "stop with the insults" to heart, as these kind of comments will drive good people away from here, and will destroy this discussion board.

If they can't master the basics of sentence structure and punctuation I don't see how they're going to contribute much beyond confusion.

[Riverwind]

As is evident to all, there is no spell check feature on this group.

Try downloading the latest version of the Google toolbar - it will give you a spell checker you can use with any web form.

[Argus]

As is evident to all, there is no spell check feature on this group.

Try downloading the latest version of the Google toolbar - it will give you a spell checker you can use with any web form.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And spyware?

[kimmy]

As is evident to all, there is no spell check feature on this group.

Try downloading the latest version of the Google toolbar - it will give you a spell checker you can use with any web form.

And spyware?

To a limited extent.

Aside from anonymously providing the folks at Google with internet traffic information (statistics of which sites are popular) I believe it also provides targeted advertising when you go visit sites that have Google-linked ads.

Even without the Google toolbar, you visit some sites and find ads supplied through Google servers, usually relating to the content of the page. You're at a page with Google-supplied ad-bars, and the content of the page relates to, say, the new Ford Mustang. Google's ad-targetting algorithm recognizes that you might be interested in cars, and long the right side of the page, you get this column with discrete little sponsored links... "Shop For Cars Online!" etc.

And I believe that when you have the Google Toolbar installed, the additional information the toolbar collects about your browing habits makes the google-sponsored links that much more specific to you ("Shop For Cars In Edmonton!")

Spyware, in the sense that it's collecting information about your browsing habits and using it to provide targetted advertising. But not really a threat to your privacy (statistics collected anonymously; no collection of personal data such as email addresses or passwords...) and no pop-up advertising (Google-sponsored links are always discrete and text-only, non-active elements on the webpage. You get the advertising anyway even without the toolbar.)

Google is reputable, and operates within the guidelines of applicable US privacy laws, and if you've got the patience to read through the 19 page legal agreement, you can find out exactly what the toolbar does.

However, some people (I'm one of them) simply don't care for the idea that their browing habits are being monitored, anonymously or not. I don't use a spellchecker, and if the occassional spelling mistake sneaks through, I can live with myself.

-k

[SirSpanky]

Who cares how its mispelled. As long as you can read it, and the person's not making a concerted effort to mispell, let it slide. Priorities people, priorities.

[Riverwind]

As is evident to all, there is no spell check feature on this group.

Try downloading the latest version of the Google toolbar - it will give you a spell checker you can use with any web form

And spyware?

Google sets an example for other companies with its license agreement. They go out their way to point up that some features would be considered spyware and gives the option of disabling them during install (something I always do). Now if you are so paranoid that you don't trust their license agreement then you probably should not install any software from any company any where - but that might make web browsing a little difficult.

[THELIBERAL]

The biggest B.S. myth in this country is the B.S. myth the media is bias toward the Liberals.

There are several radio stations across the country that have obvious bias Conservative talk show hosts.

These talk show hosts go on air on a daily basis and nit pick and trash the Liberals!

Here are some of the more obvious! Lowell Green C.F.R.A. Ottawa 9 til noon every weekday! Tommy Shnurmacker C.J.A.D. Montreal same time slot!

Although I've never heard his show I hear Dave Rutherford in Calgary is another Liberal basher!

Here is a challange for you! Name me one radio station with a talk show that trashes the Conservatives on a daily basis like the above Liberal bashing shows I've mentioned!

I'll be waiting but not holding my breath!

Oh by the way C.F.R.A. has other Liberal bashers besides Lowell Green. Early morning Steve Madely, afternoon Mike Harris!

You can listen via the internet IF YOU DOUBT my accusations!!!

You'll see I speak the truth on this one!

[Leader Circle]

You'll see I speak the truth on this one!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That should be interesting for a change from you! I find it hard to believe myself, but if you truly are a Liberal, like Ontario & the majority of Canada, I will blindly believe you!

[BHS]

The biggest B.S. myth in this country is the B.S. myth the media is bias toward the Liberals.

etc. etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice. You list a bunch of rinky-dink one man shows hither thither and yon', and try to compare this to the obviously pro-Liberal bias of the fucking CBC. Get real.

[Argus]

The biggest B.S. myth in this country is the B.S. myth the media is bias toward the Liberals.

There are several radio stations across the country that have obvious bias Conservative talk show hosts.

Well, if there are "several' radio stations which are biased towards the Conservatives then obviously the national media; The CBC, CTV, Aspers, Toronto Star, etcetera, must be well-balanced.