Conservative Governments

[JerrySeinfeld]

Well here we sit in Alberta, the only province in Canada with a conservative government consistently for decades.

Gosh it sure is tough out here. We are now a debt free provice and just annouced another $5 Billion surplus.

With all this excess cash there are a number of proposals on the table:

Establish a mutli-billion dollar education endowment fund to provide an infinite supply of education dollars into the future. Sure beats taxes!

Establish a multi-billion dollar Health Care fund for the same purpose.

Create "destination" health centres with the most cutting edge facilities anywhere in the world which will attract the very best professionals world wide. The University of Alberta hospital already has a new cardiac centre and centre for health research under construction to this end.

Maintain our 11% flat tax and possibly eliminate income tax altogether.

Meanwhile the federal Libs tole our money, gave it to their friends, smokescreened real issues by focussing on marginal SSM, bribing MPs, gutting our health care system, and breaking their elction promise (such as eliminating the GST).

I guess Ontario voters get what they deserve. I suspect they've never really experianced good government like we have in Alberta.

Just thought I'd give you a taste of the good life, all.

[Black Dog]

And here's how we need to build Conservative governments as successful as Alberta's in other provinces.

STEP 1: Use Alberta's surplus to construct some sort of time machine.

STEP 2: Travel back to prehistoric times.

STEP 3: Collect various lifeforms (plants, microscopic organisms etc.)

STEP 4: Mix this organic matter with mud and bury it under thick sedimentary layers of material in areas of the earth that will become Canada, specifically, Ontario. Await Catagenesis.

STEP 5: $$$

[Riverwind]

Well here we sit in Alberta, the only province in Canada with a conservative government consistently for decades.

Gosh it sure is tough out here.  We are now a debt free provice and just annouced another $5 Billion surplus.

Thanks entirely to oil revenues. Smugness is hardly appropriate - an idiot could balance the Alberta budget.

[Cartman]

As a PC, was Premier Getty that sophisticated with the budget? I recall an election promise to pave every secondary road in the province...even Conservatives thought the idea was silly.

[THELIBERAL]

Yeah right!!! Go kiss your oil rig!!!! Got nothing to do with a Conservative government and everything to do with oil and high oil prices!

[CrazyCanuck]

Its very easy for the rest of Canada to say the ONLY reason Alberta is debt-free and have surpluses year after year is because of oil. This isn't entirely correct. If anybody realizes it, the price of oil was VERY low throughout the entire 90s and yet, Alberta eliminated its net debt (by 1999, I believe) and was just a couple of billion dollars short of eliminating it all in 2001. The sudden surge of the oil price after that only allowed the province to erase the remaining debt quicker. If the price had never jumped so high, Alberta would have continued to erase the debt, although it may have taken a few years more.

In case there are any misunderstandings, I'm not saying oil isn't a factor, i'm just saying that it isn't the only factor and it's a little more complicated than that. If you disagree, why isn't Saskatchewan debt-free? They would have plenty of oil to get out of debt if oil is the only reason.

[Riverwind]

If anybody realizes it, the price of oil was VERY low throughout the entire 90s and yet, Alberta eliminated its net debt (by 1999, I believe) and was just a couple of billion dollars short of eliminating it all in 2001.

Take a look at Figure 1 in this document:

http://www.bus.ualberta.ca/wcer/pdf/14.pdf

The revenue from resources gave the Alberta government huge advantage compared to other provinces from 1975 to 1985. This advantage came at a time when all other provinces were racking up debt. This meant that by the time the oil prices dropped in the 90s, the Alberta provincial debt situation was significantly better than all other provinces (see Figure 4). Even though Alberta debt situation was the same as other provinces by 1995, no other province had a huge trust fund to draw upon. In short, without oil, Alberta would be no better off than Saskatchewan today.

If you disagree, why isn't Saskatchewan debt-free?  They would have plenty of oil to get out of debt if oil is the only reason.

It all comes down to how much revenue/person the oil generates for Saskatchewan. I suspect it is much smaller than the Alberta gov't and was not developed until later which meant Saskatchewan did not get the huge boost that Alberta got from 75 through 85.

[Leader Circle]

If anybody realizes it, the price of oil was VERY low throughout the entire 90s and yet, Alberta eliminated its net debt (by 1999, I believe) and was just a couple of billion dollars short of eliminating it all in 2001.

Take a look at Figure 1 in this document:

http://www.bus.ualberta.ca/wcer/pdf/14.pdf

The revenue from resources gave the Alberta government huge advantage compared to other provinces from 1975 to 1985. This advantage came at a time when all other provinces were racking up debt. This meant that by the time the oil prices dropped in the 90s, the Alberta provincial debt situation was significantly better than all other provinces (see Figure 4). Even though Alberta debt situation was the same as other provinces by 1995, no other province had a huge trust fund to draw upon. In short, without oil, Alberta would be no better off than Saskatchewan today.

If you disagree, why isn't Saskatchewan debt-free?  They would have plenty of oil to get out of debt if oil is the only reason.

It all comes down to how much revenue/person the oil generates for Saskatchewan. I suspect it is much smaller than the Alberta gov't and was not developed until later which meant Saskatchewan did not get the huge boost that Alberta got from 75 through 85.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the oil boom was in Saskatchewan in the 70's & 80's their gov't would not open it up. Estevan & Weyburn had oil back in the 60's, but they were limited to where they could drill by their gov't. Northern Sask. has yet to be touched and they know it is there. The NDP gov't calls it their protected land and they may have oil farther in the future because of it, but when Sask needs it the most, the gov't won't let them touch it. The socialist thinking is, if everyone isn't working for the gov't or on welfare, how can they control their income???

Have you ever driven in Sask? The forestry roads are in better shape in AB than some of their highways, but that welfare crack house needed to be built!!!

M I S M A N A G E M E N T!!!

[JerrySeinfeld]

Its very easy for the rest of Canada to say the ONLY reason Alberta is debt-free and have surpluses year after year is because of oil.  This isn't entirely correct.  If anybody realizes it, the price of oil was VERY low throughout the entire 90s and yet, Alberta eliminated its net debt (by 1999, I believe) and was just a couple of billion dollars short of eliminating it all in 2001.  The sudden surge of the oil price after that only allowed the province to erase the remaining debt quicker.  If the price had never jumped so high, Alberta would have continued to erase the debt, although it may have taken a few years more. 

In case there are any misunderstandings, I'm not saying oil isn't a factor, i'm just saying that it isn't the only factor and it's a little more complicated than that.  If you disagree, why isn't Saskatchewan debt-free?  They would have plenty of oil to get out of debt if oil is the only reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I anticipated this sort of simplistic response.

First: to say Alberta's success is due to oil is to say that Ontario's succes is due to manufacturing. It's ridiculous. Of course Ontario's success is due to manufacturing. Just like the maritimes economic succes depends upon fisheries, or Cancun's depend's upon tourism. How simplistic can you get. I mean -- NO SHIT!!

All economic regions have economic drivers, but the previous poster is right; alberta eliminated it's deficit when oil was at $10/barrel.

Bulletin to the rest of the country: that's what you do! Tighten your belt when times are hard, then when times turn you will be in an excellent positionheld to take advantage of it. Alberta is spending literally BILLIONS on education, health and even a publicly held endownment for times when oil prices are low. This is called smart management. The rest of Canada can snarl all it wants in an effort to poo-poo good government, but we are laughing all the way to the bank in Alberta because we are smart.

Keep doing your own little money-shuffle, money-stealing games all you want out east you retards -- we are living GOOD and pretty out here.

Take a lesson.

[THELIBERAL]

RE::Its very easy for the rest of Canada to say the ONLY reason Alberta is debt-free and have surpluses year after year is because of oil. This isn't entirely correct.

Yes it is because it's true!!!

You don't deal with the truth I see.

[cybercoma]

Well here we sit in Alberta, the only province in Canada with a conservative government consistently for decades.

Gosh it sure is tough out here.  We are now a debt free provice and just annouced another $5 Billion surplus.

With all this excess cash there are a number of proposals on the table:

Establish a mutli-billion dollar education endowment fund to provide an infinite supply of education dollars into the future.  Sure beats taxes!

Establish a multi-billion dollar Health Care fund for the same purpose.

Create "destination" health centres with the most cutting edge facilities anywhere in the world which will attract the very best professionals world wide.  The University of Alberta hospital already has a new cardiac centre and centre for health research under construction to this end.

Maintain our 11% flat tax and possibly eliminate income tax altogether.

Meanwhile the federal Libs tole our money, gave it to their friends, smokescreened real issues by focussing on marginal SSM, bribing MPs, gutting our health care system, and breaking their elction promise (such as eliminating the GST).

I guess Ontario voters get what they deserve.  I suspect they've never really experianced good government like we have in Alberta.

Just thought I'd give you a taste of the good life, all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You forgot the "send all the money to Ontario so we don't have to pay Dalton McGuinty's ridiculous healthcare premiums for reduced services addition to our income tax" option.

That's the one I'd pick.

[Guest eureka]

Alberta was a recipient if "equalization" until oil. Alberta may have eliminated its debt when prices were low, but still profitable. However, the surpluses were built before that when prices were relatively high.

Alberta, Jerry, slashed finding to healthcare, welfare, and to education when proces were high and it was swimming in oli money. It largely eliminated its debt on the backs of the poor and the middle classes,

Manufacturing industry has to be created and devloped not dug out of supplies that are in the ground. Manufacturing and the creation of a manufacturing base out of nothing requires real entrepreneurship and it can be lasting. Management of a society is more than taking in the benefits of nature and misallocating them.

[Canuck E Stan]

Yes, manufacturing and the creation of a manufacturing base out of nothing requires real entrepreneurship.But constantly throwing in $500 million from the government here and there for the auto industry and the airline industry to survive or compete and you get to see how great this country's major manufacturing base really is.With 80% of our trade dependant on the U.S., the Chinese could do it all at a fraction of the cost and our manufacturing sector would be gone. We have nothing to offer the world except our natural resouces,and unfortunately this country is a society that benefits from nature and always will.

[daniel]

Another balanced budget and a second (?) year of being debt-free. Where did this debt come from? I don't recall there being any Liberal or NDP government in Alberta to blame. Could it be that the debt was .... Conservative government fiscal mismanagement?

Ah, but I see with all this cash floating around, they are soon to return to their spending ways.

[CrazyCanuck]

Alberta, Jerry, slashed finding to healthcare, welfare, and to education when proces were high and it was swimming in oli money. It largely eliminated its debt on the backs of the poor and the middle classes,

Obviously, you've never lived in Alberta. Yeah, they reduced the government and cutback in a lot of different areas, however the highest standard of living in the country was still held by the province.

That comment reminds me of when Alberta announced they were officially debt-free and CBC had a small report in which they said although the province was debt-free, it came at the sacrafice of education, health care and highways (transportation). This is totally false. Alberta has the best education system, health-care and highways in the country and continued to enjoy the best standard of living in Canada yet again this year.

People too often consider cutbacks and spending to be the determining factor when assessing the quality of institutions. It's not how much you spend, it's how you choose to spend it; something the people in Dumbtario don't quite understand yet.

[CrazyCanuck]

Alberta was a recipient if "equalization" until oil. Alberta may have eliminated its debt when prices were low, but still profitable. However, the surpluses were built before that when prices were relatively high.

Alberta, Jerry, slashed finding to healthcare, welfare, and to education when proces were high and it was swimming in oli money. It largely eliminated its debt on the backs of the poor and the middle classes,

Manufacturing industry has to be created and devloped not dug out of supplies that are in the ground. Manufacturing and the creation of a manufacturing base out of nothing requires real entrepreneurship and it can be lasting. Management of a society is more than taking in the benefits of nature and misallocating them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Technocrat]

What the F’ing hell is wrong with all you anti-Ontario Albertans huh?... Do you suffer from some form of deranged penis envy? So far the arguments in this thread can be summed up by schoolchildren arguing like this

A-'Alberta is the best'

O-'Nuh uhhh'

A-'Is to'

O-'No its not'

A-'Yes it is my daddy says so'

O-'your daddy is inbred'

A-'yeah well at least my dads not a homo'

O-'shut up'

A-'no you shut up'

O-'You first'

A-'No you first'

Anti- Albertan Ontarians need to grow up in a big way too... there are many here that suffer from this childish affliction as well.

Each province has their merits and drawbacks. Each has their place in Canada and confederation. I am going to have to agree with some of the posters that a retarded monkey could balance the books in Alberta right now. So kudos to the Cons in Alberta who did that, I wish more provinces could be in your situation… with luck maybe Newfoundland can be a mini-Alberta one day. In Ontario the Cons failed miserably to balance our budgets after almost 10 years... they messed up Ontario pretty good. So understand Cons from Alberta that Ontario has had a pretty bad experience with Cons running our province. Likewise, many Ontarians realize that Alberta is lucky as hell that it has the resources such as oil, because a good lot of it gets sent to Sarnia Ontario for further processing, and refinement adding to our economy and making life for us better. This whole rivalry thing has to end... so no more penis envy type behavior from the Albertans please, and Ontarians... please remember that we substantially benefit from that oil pipeline and not all Albertans are crazy Christians/conservatives or whatever name you want to belittle them with. Were in Canada together lets find a way to make this country great... we have the people, we have the resources to do it... lets stop the infighting and work as a country... lose the us and them mindset... ohhh yeah the other provinces are invited too... heh.

/2cents

[Big Blue Machine]

Conservative governments are so horrible that Ontario had a Conservative government for 50 years in its 62 year history. Conservatives did great things for Ontario, like create Ontario Hydro, TVO, and kept the province of a steady course.

[newbie]

double post

[cybercoma]

The Conservatives are evil eeevil people. They want nothing more than to destroy this country. I hope they NEVER gain power again. Nothing would please me more than to have a Liberal government for the rest of our generation.

[newbie]

Obviously, you've never lived in Alberta.  Yeah, they reduced the government and cutback in a lot of different areas, however the highest standard of living in the country was still held by the province. 

Alberta has the best education system, health-care and highways in the country and continued to enjoy the best standard of living in Canada yet again this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I live in Alberta and have since I was born. In terms of education system, gotta wonder why 1/3 of kids don't graduate. And have you driven around lately and looked at the physical shape of some of our schools? Yeah, Ralphy got us debt free, but at what price.

[Left for life]

Its very easy for the rest of Canada to say the ONLY reason Alberta is debt-free and have surpluses year after year is because of oil.  This isn't entirely correct.  If anybody realizes it, the price of oil was VERY low throughout the entire 90s and yet, Alberta eliminated its net debt (by 1999, I believe) and was just a couple of billion dollars short of eliminating it all in 2001.  The sudden surge of the oil price after that only allowed the province to erase the remaining debt quicker.  If the price had never jumped so high, Alberta would have continued to erase the debt, although it may have taken a few years more. 

In case there are any misunderstandings, I'm not saying oil isn't a factor, i'm just saying that it isn't the only factor and it's a little more complicated than that.  If you disagree, why isn't Saskatchewan debt-free?  They would have plenty of oil to get out of debt if oil is the only reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, they did that through massive cuts in healthcare, education, and other social services, all of which are in poor shape compared to other provinces. Saskatchewan has done well in balancing budgets but we don't have the same amount of oil money that Alberta has, it is because of the oil that you are doing so well currently. Without oil you wouldn't be doing as well as you are, or well at all.

[Guest eureka]

I have lived in Alberta though how that is relevant is beyond me.

You should take a look at some of the reports and criticisms of Alberta and its systems at the time of Klein's butchery. They were not in very robust condition.

It is questionable whether Alberta has the best of evrything as you claim. It is little different than any other province and those rankings go up and down with gusts of political wind. Not many years ago, the Quebec Protestanr school system was considered by many to be the finest in the world: now it is pathetic.

The point of all this is that all these societal goods have nothing at all to do with the superiority of any region. They are a result of good fortune and the social ethc that has developed.

What if all those Newfies go back home to work on their oil patch(es)? What will Alberta do for hard working citizens?

[Cartman]

Did it ever occur to people that governments are simply not corporations? Corporations are expected to generate profits and when they do, they are successful especially considering that they cannot be guaranteed any revenue at all.

Profit is not the goal of government. Repeat, profit is not the goal of government. This would be rather easy though, as they are guaranteed revenue unlike corporations. Governments are expected to govern many aspects of society in the best interests of all society.

Regardless of whether the government has a surplus or a deficit, the fundamental accounting error is the same. When governments generate deficits this is evidence that they have not predicted revenues and expenditures properly and when governments generate massive surpluses this is evidence that they have not predicted expenditures and revenues properly. Mismanagement all the same.

Only a Conservative could consider surpluses as evidence of good management. The government has taken far too much of your hard earned money than is needed for the services you pay for and this is considered success? I got an idea. When governments mismanage and have too much of MY money, give me MY money back. When a company overcharges me, they return MY money. They do not wave it in front of my face and say what a great management job they have done. Gouging is illegal for corporations, but government gouging is evidence for good management?

Give your head a shake buddy because stealing is not a virtue or an amazing skill and even the federal Liberals have managed to generate surpluses. All one has to do is continue taxing and reducing services. This is what king Ralph has done here. So, if you want the government to take more of YOUR money than they need to run the government, then go ahead and vote Conservative. While you are at it, go buy a $3.00 candy bar from the "Try and Save" store because I am sure you will find them really well "managed".

[Cartman]

Conservative governments are so horrible that Ontario had a Conservative government for 50 years in its 62 year history. Conservatives did great things for Ontario, like create Ontario Hydro, TVO, and kept the province of a steady course.

Using this logic, we should clearly keep the Liberals in power considering how long they have formed government.