"Rebranding" the French language

[kimmy]

Time to change the "brand image" of French in Canada

OTTAWA (CP) - The federal language commissioner thinks Ontarians need an attitudinal adjustment when it comes to the French language.

And one expert says it's time to stop selling bilingualism to anglophones as a faintly guilt-washed patriotic duty and rebrand it as a gateway to the global marketplace.

(bilingualism) was sold throughout the 1970s and '80s as a means to national unity and a feel-good patriotic duty, says the author of Bilingual Today, United Tomorrow: Official Languages and Education and Canadian Federalism, which is to be published later this year.

The pitch appealed to parents during a period when the country's breakup seemed a real threat, Hayday said in an interview, but the strategy is showing diminishing returns.

He suggests another approach, aimed directly at teenagers: "Basically any second language is important to have as a gateway language to learning other languages - which is going to be important in the global economy."

ok, but why French? There are a number of languages that would create far more opportunities in global trade than French.

From that premise, French would be the natural choice in Canada because it also provides the immediate benefit of access to government jobs and the ability to fully experience all regions of the country.

Ah! NOW we're getting somewhere! Here's the ad I'm picturing:

...it's 3:59pm on Albert St in downtown Ottawa. The clock rolls over to 4:00pm, and instantly the street is flooded with attractive, expensively-dressed young government workers. They stampede into pubs, as shiny new European sedans stream out of parkades. Voice-over: "If you want to roll like this, learn French."

Now THAT will put butts in French Immersion seats!

Don't expect to see beer-style television ads promoting French as a lifestyle anytime soon.

"Even if that crossed our minds, we really don't have the budget to go there," Cantin said.

awww...

-k

[Leader Circle]

Is this the "new" Sponsorship program? I wonder how the Liberals will sell this to the House of Commons??

So sad, we can find better ways to unite Canada.

Here's a novel thought, try to stop the alienation of the west and stop ramming French down people's throats!

[August1991]

This ROC link works:

Macleans

Weird. This is rabble.ca weird. ROC Trudeau weird. Canadian anti-America weird. State Health, Canada-red-flag weird.

----

If Canadians pay taxes so that the federal government hires advertising sponsors to tell English Canadians to seek French language lovers to be successful and know life, then English Canada is... weird.

Or is it admirably Democrat American, or exotically Republican American, or Californian, to feel free and just "Go for it"?

Got me.

[Leader Circle]

My problem with all of this and promoting bilingualism is, the people that get these prime government jobs can speak other languages, then just cannot speak english.

It could be Mandarin, Japanese, Punjabi, or French, they just simply cannot speak English. Why not promote mastering the English language for the government workers instead of bilingualism. I agree it is nice to be able to communicate in different languages, but why not learn the language of the majority of Canadians???

Whenever you call any government office, you always have a language barrier if you are english, because the person on the other end of the line cannot speak it. It is very frustrating to bait people with government jobs, if they learn 2 languages, one of them not necessarily being english!!!

[Argus]

If Canadians pay taxes so that the federal government hires advertising sponsors to tell English Canadians to seek French language lovers to be successful and know life, then English Canada is...  weird.

Just dumb.

The federal government and the national media have blasted out the message for the last thirty years that any hesitation, any doubt, any distrust, any lack of enthusiasm on the part of anglos for the French language is bigotry. Remember when an Alliance MP dared to stand up in the House and question the extent of Official bilingualism in the civil service and how it was affecting Anglophones? The howls of shocked outrage reverberated throughout the national media. He was denounced by Liberals and the media as a bigot, and his own party leader repudiated him and then confirmed the Alliance's absolute dedication and love and admiration for Official Bilingualism.

With the rising numbers of Francophones in the civil service, and the way the older, mainly Anglo boomers are retiring, with the increased emphasis put on bilingualism for all leading jobs, over 90% of the leadership of the federal public service will be Francophones within the next twenty odd years.

If you object, you're a bigot, a hateful, evil, horrible bigot that really ought to be sent to some kind of re-education camp.

[Bakunin]

They invented this myth, billingualism...

Right now, the modern model for country's are nation states.

Canada wasn't one nation, it was british colony in north america and amerindian and innus and etc..

So they build the canadian nation, it worked pretty well except in quebec. why ? because there are no big french community outside quebec and they are completly disconnected from us and unorganised except acadia. The canadian nation building worked for english quebeckers tough.

Trudeau's vision to include quebec to the canadian nation building was billingualism wich doesn't work very well. If the media would talk against billingualism, they would be agreeing that quebec is different than canada and therefore destroying the myth of THE nation.

here are some number from stat canada about bilingualism:

Anglophone billingual in canada: 9%

Francophone billingual in canada: 43,4%

Anglophone billingual outside quebec: 7,1%

Francophone billingual outside quebec: 85.1%

Francophone billingual in quebec: 36.6%

Anglophone billingual in quebec: 66,1%

Profile of languages in Canada

Distribution of language wich show it clearly:

English / french / other

Newfoundland and Labrador: 98.4% 0.4% 1.1%

Prince Edward Island: 93.9% 4.3% 1.5%

Nova Scotia: 93.0% 3.8% 3.0%

New Brunswick: 64.7% 32.9% 1.7%

Quebec: 8.0% 81.2% 10.0%

Ontario: 71.6% 4.4% 23.7%

Manitoba: 75.8% 4.1% 19.9%

Saskatchewan: 85.7% 1.9% 12.2%

Alberta: 81.8% 2.0% 16.0%

British Columbia: 74.1% 1.5% 24.3%

Yukon Territory: 87.1% 3.1%9.5%

Northwest Territories: 78.1% 2.6% 19.0%

Nunavut: 27.6% 1.5% 70.8%

----------------------------------------

Mother Tongue, Percentage Distribution

Different tongue also mean different media wich also mean different culture, music, movies, way of living and thinking, history, international friends community.

Thats what people must understand, french quebeckers don't hate canadian, they just don't want to be a canadian minority, they want to be able to live their life the way they want just like canadian don't want to be part of america.

It can be done with a provincial status but not with a strong federal government, why ? because the french quebeckers can't accept to see quebec become a canadian puppet wich they can't control.

[JerrySeinfeld]

You know, in the USA there are many different cultures that flourish without a federal mandate. Take a look at the American southwest with the preponderance of Latinos. If a culture warrants it, then that culture will survive. Many of you may have noticed that a lot of TV shows and sportscasts on American networks are now available in Spanish as well as English. This is not a government thing, it's a natural free enterprise thing. There are many distinct cultures in Canada, we should celebrate them all, without governments telling us how to do it.

[Bakunin]

You know, in the USA there are many different cultures that flourish without a federal mandate.  Take a look at the American southwest with the preponderance of Latinos.  If a culture warrants it, then that culture will survive.  Many of you may have noticed that a lot of TV shows and sportscasts on American networks are now available in Spanish as well as English.  This is not a government thing, it's a natural free enterprise thing.  There are many distinct cultures in Canada, we should celebrate them all, without governments telling us how to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

louisiana was once french, i guess in southern usa, its more about immigration than a real culture. Once immigrant scolarize and integrate usa, they adopt the american culture, they don't have choice if they want good job and to be part of the american way of life. For sample in quebec, adult immigrants choose at 55% english for scholarisation for cegep and university, once they get good education they often leave to go stay in ontario, they never truly integrate the quebec society except if they choose french education. Its also harder to find good english jobs or at least its easyer outside quebec.

Nation building is something powerfull, its the researched "way of living" wich bring evryone toghether, evryone to one big culture.

[JerrySeinfeld]

You know, in the USA there are many different cultures that flourish without a federal mandate.  Take a look at the American southwest with the preponderance of Latinos.  If a culture warrants it, then that culture will survive.  Many of you may have noticed that a lot of TV shows and sportscasts on American networks are now available in Spanish as well as English.  This is not a government thing, it's a natural free enterprise thing.  There are many distinct cultures in Canada, we should celebrate them all, without governments telling us how to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

louisiana was once french, i guess in southern usa, its more about immigration than a real culture. Once immigrant scolarize and integrate usa, they adopt the american culture, they don't have choice if they want good job and to be part of the american way of life. For sample in quebec, adult immigrants choose at 55% english for scholarisation for cegep and university, once they get good education they often leave to go stay in ontario, they never truly integrate the quebec society except if they choose french education. Its also harder to find good english jobs or at least its easyer outside quebec.

Nation building is something powerfull, its the researched "way of living" wich bring evryone toghether, evryone to one big culture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

louisiana still has a strong french culture...WITHOUT government help

[Chungwawema]

louisiana still has a strong french culture...WITHOUT government help

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree completely. I've been to Louisiana a few times and there is certainly a uniqueness about it. Though I think government help would enhance the life there (sorry, I just had to get that in).

[JerrySeinfeld]

louisiana still has a strong french culture...WITHOUT government help

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree completely. I've been to Louisiana a few times and there is certainly a uniqueness about it. Though I think government help would enhance the life there (sorry, I just had to get that in).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It may be true. But personally I have always found government supported ideas carry some degree of hollowness about them. At least we know what we see in Louisiana is the real deal.

[Bakunin]

i was talking about the language used, correct me if im wrong but now its pretty much only english.

it may have a strong historical culture with buildings, touristic center and maybe a small part of the way of living that evry state has but its no more french, it naturally became english because of the need to learn english and prolly because the educational infrastructure became mostly english with the help of governmental policy and now they live the same way of living other american do.

[Chungwawema]

i was talking about the language used, correct me if im wrong but now its pretty much only english.

it may have a strong historical culture with buildings, touristic center and maybe a small part of the way of living that evry state has but its no more french, it naturally became english because of the need to learn english and prolly because the educational infrastructure became mostly english with the help of governmental policy and now they live the same way of living other american do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm amusing you haven't seen how many normal Louisianians (I'm guessing that's not what they're called!) live. There are many French speaking people there and even a few French-only speaking people - What is this, people speaking a language other than English in the US? Never!

[Bakunin]

i was talking about the language used, correct me if im wrong but now its pretty much only english.

it may have a strong historical culture with buildings, touristic center and maybe a small part of the way of living that evry state has but its no more french, it naturally became english because of the need to learn english and prolly because the educational infrastructure became mostly english with the help of governmental policy and now they live the same way of living other american do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm amusing you haven't seen how many normal Louisianians (I'm guessing that's not what they're called!) live. There are many French speaking people there and even a few French-only speaking people - What is this, people speaking a language other than English in the US? Never!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never went there, from what ive heard it wasn't really french anymore, im happy to hear what you say, im surprized to hear there are french-only speaking people. It would be great to know what % is french over there

[Chungwawema]

I have never went there, from what ive heard it wasn't really french anymore, im happy to hear what you say, im surprized to hear there are french-only speaking people. It would be great to know what % is french over there

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure it wouldn't be especially high. I think Louisianna is really interesting place (one of the most interesting in the US). Though, to get this thread back on topic:

I don't see what's wrong with having the government help promote Canada's uniqueness. I don't speak French, and I don't plan on really ever learning the language (I'll finish with German before I really consider anything else) - but the French aspects of Canada are one of the things I most admire about our country - it's awesome that Canada isn't the same as other places and it's awesome that we're not the same for a darn good reason.

[Guest eureka]

You go to the core of it, Bakunin, without realising what you are saying. (Francophone) Quebeckers do not want to be a Canadian minority as you claim, though it is true of only some Franciphone Quebeckers.

But what they are IS a Canadian minority: they always have been and always will be. They indulge in a "nation-building" exercise by opressing the smaller communities in that province: by passing laws (laws that are illegal and are condemned by the world in concert) to proscribe the majority Canadian language and to forcibly assimilate others.

You also persist in blocking out the reality of Quebec's ethnic numbers. As I have reminded you several times, the Anglophones of Quebec are only 8%, what that is relevant to is beyond reason, but that is because fully half the Anglophone population left Quebec in less than ten years after the passage of "language" laws.

You also talk of the small number of French in many provinces. I would again remind you that the number of French in Quebec was also small when the NATION of Canada was formed. It has grown hugely since French was allowed to retain its status as a part of the founding of Canada - not as a founding nation.

[Bakunin]

You go to the core of it, Bakunin, without realising what you are saying. (Francophone) Quebeckers do not want to be a Canadian minority as you claim, though it is true of only some Franciphone Quebeckers.

A majority of french quebeckers do but thats not the point, once a majority of quebeckers do like the poll are showing, then its gonna count. Now what do we do about it ? pretend its not legitimate, that thei aren't resonable ? who could pretend its not legitimate ? The one that benefit from the status quo ?

You also persist in blocking out the reality of Quebec's ethnic numbers. As I have reminded you several times, the Anglophones of Quebec are only 8%, what that is relevant to is beyond reason, but that is because fully half the Anglophone population left Quebec in less than ten years after the passage of "language" laws.

I can't see your point with this argument ? before 1760 how much english where in quebec ? 0 ? If english quebeckers leave its because they can get better job and integrate easyer in ontario or usa... It will always be like that, evry time we will educate ppl in english, they will leave quebec. What are we suppose to do about it ?

You also talk of the small number of French in many provinces. I would again remind you that the number of French in Quebec was also small when the NATION of Canada was formed. It has grown hugely since French was allowed to retain its status as a part of the founding of Canada - not as a founding nation.

You see thats the kind of racist comment i was talking about.

French was ALLOWED to retain its status. What are we ? prisonners ? animals ? we can't decide for ourself ? we have to ask permission to exist ?

[I miss Reagan]

I think Quebec should be able to do whatever they want. But I think once Quebec leaves the provinces should be allowed to rid themselves of bilingualism on every public document and commercial item. West of Manitoba French is useless unless you're a government employee, then you can get paid a little extra to say Hello-Bonjour whenever you answer the phone before proceeding in english.

[Guest eureka]

French was allowed to keep its status, Bakunin, in an act of magnanimity. As I have pointed out to you before, that was outside the experience of the European powers of the time. Conquered territories were integrated into the conqueror.

That is NOT racist. It is historical reality.

"How many English were in Quebec in 1760" I don't know but it was probably as many as there were French.

We do know roughly how many French there were approximately. It was in the area of 60,000 though some of them went back to France rather quickly.

Those 60,000 did not occupy the territory of Quebec as it is now. They lived almost exclusively along two river banks. The rest of present day Quebec was explored and settled by English. Even to Gaspesia as I have previously pointed out.

Most of present day Quebec was first explored and settled by English speakers. I once told you how I demonstrated this to Bernard Landry on his map. He was unable to refute the truth.

[Bakunin]

"How many English were in Quebec in 1760" I don't know but it was probably as many as there were French.

can you provide proof, document or anything ?