Trump’s Steel and Aluminum Tariffs Killing North America’s Auto Sector

[Zeitgeist]

What economists predicted would result from Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs has come to pass: a billion dollar loss to GM and plant closures on both sides of the border:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gm-layoffs-trump-tariffs-760003/amp/

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What economists predicted would result from Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs has come to pass: a billion dollar loss to GM and plant closures on both sides of the border:

 

Economists are brilliant that way...failing to note that plant closures were in progress before Trump was ever elected president.

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Economists are brilliant that way...failing to note that plant closures were in progress before Trump was ever elected president.

Trump hastened it.  If he goes further down the tariff war rabbit hole and imposes 25 percent auto tariffs that will no doubt cause counter tariffs, these auto companies’ costs will rise even further.  These plant closures will seem like a honeymoon by comparison.  This madness has to stop.  Kudlow doesn’t know what he’s doing.  Either does the rest of the Trump cabal. 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump hastened it.  If he goes further down the tariff war rabbit hole and imposes 25 percent auto tariffs that will no doubt cause counter tariffs, these auto companies’ costs will rise even further.  These plant closures will seem like a honeymoon by comparison.  This madness has to stop.  Kudlow doesn’t know what he’s doing.  Either does the rest of the Trump cabal. 

 

No....Trump needs to keep the pressure on to force concessions on IP theft, transshipments, and dumping.   Plant closures were happening in Canada and the USA long before Trump imposed tariffs.   Ontario lost automotive jobs for the past 18 years with Liberal party "madness" that continues to this day.

Can't be any worse than the Bush-Obama "honeymoon"...when GM started to exit Canada...for good.

Edited November 28, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No....Trump needs to keep the pressure on to force concessions on IP theft, transshipments, and dumping.   Plant closures were happening in Canada and the USA long before Trump imposed tariffs.   Ontario lost automotive jobs for the past 18 years with Liberal party "madness" that continues to this day.

Can't be any worse than the Bush-Obama "honeymoon".

You’re so wrong.  Trump has literally reversed progress. The US has gone downhill and dragged its allies down with it.  Two years of amateur hour. We were all better off under Obama. Ontario was better off under Wynne.  I’ll give you more leeway on Trudeau. He was naive and doctrinaire about some of the wrong things. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re so wrong.  Trump has literally reversed progress. The US has gone downhill and dragged its allies down with it.  Two years of amateur hour. We were all better off under Obama. Ontario was better off under Wynne.  I’ll give you more leeway on Trudeau. He was naive and doctrinaire about some of the wrong things. 

 

Your politicians have zero impact on my life in the U.S.    Their stupidity is only for entertainment purposes...they are your problem...not mine.

Trump was elected to "reverse the process"...and he is doing what he can with the limited tools at his disposal.

[Zeitgeist]

41 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Your politicians have zero impact on my life in the U.S.    Their stupidity is only for entertainment purposes...they are your problem...not mine.

Trump was elected to "reverse the process"...and he is doing what he can with the limited tools at his disposal.

Your cynicism towards the abilities and hopes of the lower economic social strata, smaller countries, middle class industrial workers, and any alternative vision of the world apart from a self-interested and belligerent part of the US political spectrum says something about why we’re in the state we’re in today.  

Trump’s biggest flaw is that his idea of winning is taking advantage of people. Making America great at the expense of immigrants and other countries is an oxymoron.  Generosity is a sign of strength not weakness.  Now that we’re into the fear and greed game, people are more distrustful and on the take. We’re losing global networks and social cohesion domestically.  I do think Trump thought his tariffs would help American workers, but he hasn’t considered the costs, both to other countries and his own people. He won’t listen to experts and seems to take pride in having uninformed policy.  Truth just isn’t that important to him. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your cynicism towards the abilities and hopes of the lower economic social strata, smaller countries, middle class industrial workers, and any alternative vision of the world apart from a self-interested and belligerent part of the US political spectrum says something about why we’re in the state we’re in today. 

 

Thank you....it is better to be rich than to be poor.

 

Quote

Trump’s biggest flaw is that his idea of winning is taking advantage of people. Making America great at the expense of immigrants and other countries is an oxymoron.  Generosity is a sign of strength not weakness.  Now that we’re into the fear and greed game, people are more distrustful and on the take. We’re losing global networks and social cohesion domestically.  I do think Trump thought his tariffs would help American workers, but he hasn’t considered the costs, both to other countries and his own people. He won’t listen to experts and seems to take pride in having uninformed policy.  Truth just isn’t that important to him. 

 

Correct...but this is not a new idea.    See "1980's"...."Greed is good."

If "global networks" are breaking down, then they were never that strong to begin with (i.e. if all it takes is a Donald Trump to unravel them).

Keep the faith...surely Canada will save the world with "Sunny Ways".

 

[Rue]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Thank you....it is better to be rich than to be poor.

 

 

 

 

I am glad  you think so. Problem is the enforcement agency you expect to protect you is poor and may not think so. They might turn on you. Careful now. You might want to watch Al Pacino in Scarface again. Say hello to my little friend. I mean that kind of lifestyle catches up. Excuse me I must go back to the slums with my peons. I am going to suck on some kind of bone for dinner. Tastes like someone rich.

[Shady]

13 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trump hastened it.  If he goes further down the tariff war rabbit hole and imposes 25 percent auto tariffs that will no doubt cause counter tariffs, these auto companies’ costs will rise even further.  These plant closures will seem like a honeymoon by comparison.  This madness has to stop.  Kudlow doesn’t know what he’s doing.  Either does the rest of the Trump cabal. 

I'm against the tariffs, but to suggest that this is the reason for the plant closings is disingenuous.  The federal and Ontario Liberal energy policy is more responsible.

[GostHacked]

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Your politicians have zero impact on my life in the U.S.    Their stupidity is only for entertainment purposes...they are your problem...not mine.

Trump was elected to "reverse the process"...and he is doing what he can with the limited tools at his disposal.

Yes yes, keep telling us that you don't care about Canada and that it does not impact you.

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, Truth Detector said:

I'm against the tariffs, but to suggest that this is the reason for the plant closings is disingenuous.  The federal and Ontario Liberal energy policy is more responsible.

Not true.  Ontario's energy costs are in the same ballpark as the costs of neighboring U.S. jurisdictions.  Massachusetts is substantially more expensive.  New York is more expensive.  Prices below are per kilowatt hour:

MAJOR NORTH AMERICAN CITIES AVERAGE PRICES FOR LARGE-POWER CUSTOMERS1 (IN ¢ /k W h)2
 Edmonton, A B: 8.53
 Vancouver, B C: 7.77 Charlottetown, P E: 9.51  Calgary, A B: 8.32 Moncton, N B: 7.86  Seattle, W A: 10.05 Regina, S K: 8.98 Halifax, N S: 10.26  Winnipeg, M B: 5.18 Portland, O R: 8.46 Ottawa, O N: 10.80  Montréal, Q C: 5.18
Toronto, O N: 10.66  Boston, M A: 23.24 Detroit, M I: 8.21 New York, N Y: 13.83 Chicago, I L: 7.88 
 San Francisco, C A: 14.85
 Nashville, T N: 11.57
Houston, T X: 9.84 
Miami, F L: 8.3

 

MAJOR NORTH AMERICAN CITIES AVERAGE PRICES FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS1 (IN ¢ /k W h)2
 Edmonton, A B: 14.35
 Vancouver, B C: 11.42 Charlottetown, P E: 16.83  Calgary, A B: 15.79 Moncton, N B: 12.97  Seattle, W A: 15.02 Regina, S K: 16.51 Halifax, N S: 16.41  Winnipeg, M B: 9.00 Portland, O R: 13.99 Montréal, Q C: 7.13 Ottawa, O N: 12.16 
Toronto, O N: 13.24  Boston, M A: 31.52 Detroit, M I: 20.86 New York, N Y: 30.46 Chicago, I L: 16.75 
 San Francisco, C A: 27.95
 Nashville, T N: 15.53
Houston, T X: 13.75 
Miami, F L: 12.51 
 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, Rue said:

I am glad  you think so. Problem is the enforcement agency you expect to protect you is poor and may not think so. They might turn on you.

 

Nice fantasy....Hollywood movies can provide even better ones....Canada eats that stuff up.

The "enforcement agency" is working just fine for now....I helped to put another "poor" bastard back in the slammer a few weeks ago (jury duty).

 

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not true.  Ontario's energy costs are in the same ballpark as the costs of neighboring U.S. jurisdictions.  Massachusetts is substantially more expensive.  New York is more expensive.  Prices below are per kilowatt hour:

MAJOR NORTH AMERICAN CITIES AVERAGE PRICES FOR LARGE-POWER CUSTOMERS1 (IN ¢ /k W h)2
 Edmonton, A B: 8.53
 Vancouver, B C: 7.77 Charlottetown, P E: 9.51  Calgary, A B: 8.32 Moncton, N B: 7.86  Seattle, W A: 10.05 Regina, S K: 8.98 Halifax, N S: 10.26  Winnipeg, M B: 5.18 Portland, O R: 8.46 Ottawa, O N: 10.80  Montréal, Q C: 5.18
Toronto, O N: 10.66  Boston, M A: 23.24 Detroit, M I: 8.21 New York, N Y: 13.83 Chicago, I L: 7.88 
 San Francisco, C A: 14.85
 Nashville, T N: 11.57
Houston, T X: 9.84 
Miami, F L: 8.3

 

MAJOR NORTH AMERICAN CITIES AVERAGE PRICES FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS1 (IN ¢ /k W h)2
 Edmonton, A B: 14.35
 Vancouver, B C: 11.42 Charlottetown, P E: 16.83  Calgary, A B: 15.79 Moncton, N B: 12.97  Seattle, W A: 15.02 Regina, S K: 16.51 Halifax, N S: 16.41  Winnipeg, M B: 9.00 Portland, O R: 13.99 Montréal, Q C: 7.13 Ottawa, O N: 12.16 
Toronto, O N: 13.24  Boston, M A: 31.52 Detroit, M I: 20.86 New York, N Y: 30.46 Chicago, I L: 16.75 
 San Francisco, C A: 27.95
 Nashville, T N: 15.53
Houston, T X: 13.75 
Miami, F L: 12.51 
 

Not true.  Ontario was paying the highest rate of hydro in North America not that long ago.

[BubberMiley]

7 minutes ago, Truth Detector said:

Not true.  Ontario was paying the highest rate of hydro in North America not that long ago.

Do you have a cite? I have one from Hydro-Quebec which suggests you are either misinformed or lying.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf

[Zeitgeist]

51 minutes ago, Truth Detector said:

Not true.  Ontario was paying the highest rate of hydro in North America not that long ago.

That was never true.  Show the evidence or stop spreading fake news.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

That was never true.  Show the evidence or stop spreading fake news.

Sure.  The prices for industry were even worse in Ontario.

Ontario electricity rates for industry among highest in North America

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/ontario-electricity-rates-for-industry-among-highest-in-north-america

Ontarians pay highest rates in Canada for hydro, study shows

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-hydro-fraser-institute-study-1.4212668

 

[Shady]

Ontario’s soaring electricity costs result of poor government policies

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-ontarios-soaring-electricity-costs-result-of-poor-government-policies/

[Shady]

The highest electricity rates in North America

https://windsorstar.com/opinion/letters/the-highest-electricity-rates-in-north-america

[Shady]

Ontario Electricity Prices Are Out Of Control

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/21/ontario-hydro-rates_n_11107590.html

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, Truth Detector said:

Ontario Electricity Prices Are Out Of Control

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/21/ontario-hydro-rates_n_11107590.html

From the article above (that you provided):

"

While Ontarians pay some of the highest electricity rates in Canada, those rates are still relatively low when compared to many places across North America.

According to data from Hydro Quebec, rates paid in Ontario are well below those seen in New York, Boston or Chicago.

Chart: Hydro-Quebec