Evidence of Liberals attempting to Purchase People

[I miss Reagan]

The Libs are good at what they do, there's no doubt about that. I am convinced that these guys are evil. They opperate by ignoring democracy, hand picking candidates, engaging in money laundering and theft, and most recently buying people with money and power. Of course they deny it but we all knew they were doing it when Inky Mark came forward. It's totally obvious that 'Benedict Arnold' Belinda was bought. Now Germant Grewal has a tape to prove that Ujjal Dosanjh tried to buy he and his wife's vote by offering him either a diplomatic position or a position in the Senate. Russia appears even more democratic than Canada right now. I'd be embarassed.... except no one really pays attention to us.

Grewal had told media earlier Wednesday evening that the Liberals offered him a diplomatic post or a Senate seat for his wife in return for scratching their crucial budget vote.

The MP from Surrey, B.C., alleged he made an audio recording of an offer from Dosanjh and Tim Murphy, Prime Minister Paul Martin's chief of staff.

"I was approached early this week by Ujjal Dosanjh and asked to abstain or vote with the government on the budget vote," said Grewal, a three-term MP.

"In exchange, I was given an understanding that I would be rewarded in some fashion."

Grewal said the options included a diplomatic appointment for him or a future Senate seat for Nina Grewal, who was first elected to Parliament just last June.

Banana Republic

[August1991]

Listen to it here:

CTV

[I miss Reagan]

Disgusting. So that was Tim Murphy, Martins chief of staff? I feel like puking.

[August1991]

On the tape, Murphy is overheard discussing confidence-vote strategy with Grewal.

He tells Grewal that he and Nina could miss several votes this spring, and says he's willing to negotiate something later.

"We'll have much more detailed . . . discussions after that with some freedom," Murphy is overheard saying.

"Explicit discussions about Senate, not Senate, I don't think are very helpful and I don't think, frankly, can be had (now) in advance of an abstention. . .

"I think it's a bad idea, truthfully, to have any kind of commitment that involved a specific trade."

NP

Hey, tapes? It really is turning into Watergate!

[I miss Reagan]

And everyone think's Martin is a saint... I got one, 'the dirty Ditherer' eh?

[August1991]

Anyone got a link to a full transcript? There's a reference to Volpe in there, I think. Grewal was under RCMP investigation (or so the Liberals leaked) which means that Murphy seemed to be offering to "solve" a problem.

This was a real shakedown. Wow!

Also, you know what this means about Belinda's cute little story about meeting David Peterson by chance...

----

Watergate? On second thought, I doubt it. These guys will deny, deny, deny and then blame the Tories for being power-hungry and then everyone will forget about it.

[kimmy]

First thing I thought when I heard the story on the news tonight was of the leaked information about Grewal.

Usual Dosage was also on the news tonight, claiming that Grewal approached him looking for a patronage appointment, and that Usual had to turn him down because that wouldn't be appropriate. I found that to be fairly believable, up to the part where Dosage said he had to turn him down. As if!

Who to believe? Either guy could be lying.

One thing worth remembering, though, is that early this month (or late last month, even-- I can't recall the exact date) someone at CTV-- I believe Mike Duffy-- mentioned that his contacts within the Liberal party told him that they were looking to offer senate seats to Conservative members to get them out of the HoC. I think August started a thread on the subject. And so the claim Grewal is making would certainly fit with that strategy, and likewise with the claims made earlier this month by Inky Mark.

-k

[August1991]

Murphy suggests the Grewals could cloak their abstention as a matter of principle. He even suggests a possible explanation for them.

"If anybody asks the question, 'Was there a deal,' and we say no, we want that to be the truth," Murphy says.

"If two members of the Conservative party abstained - (they) don't vote against their own party, (they) don't have to. . . .

"That can be done on the basis of the members . . .(saying), 'Look, my riding doesn't want an election, doesn't want one now."

Grewal says the discussion with Murphy was sparked during a meal of pizza and beer last weekend with Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh.

I think that's the money quote: "We want that to be the truth."

[What is it about *Usual Dosage* and food? (Remember his line about having tea with Cadman and his wife?)]

There was one more bizarre twist on the tape: an ambiguous reference to Immigration Minister Joe Volpe.

Ambiguous is right.

940 News

[Bakunin]

I just can't beleive it... its just like the judge thing that get rewarded by the government to work for the liberal party...

Someone will have to make a movie about that party one day...

they should call it: The Godfather 4, the story of the libranos family.

[ScottBrison]

Anyone got a link to a full transcript?

Hate to burst your CONservative bubbles here, but:

PM's COS:So but for all we’re saying in advance of, that I mean, explicit discussions about senate, not senate, I don’t think are very helpful.

Grewal:M-hmm

PM's COS:Um, um, and, and I don’t think, frankly, can be had in advance of an abstention tomorrow. Then we’ll have much more detailed and finely hued discussions after that with some freedom. And I think, I think what that allows is negotiating room for you. Either direction I mean, you can easily say, look, yeah, you know, if you don’t like, you can stay home, stay back with – where you are or if you do like, we can make an arrangement that allows you to move.

Grewal:Okay

PM's COS:Um, If that - Now, look I don’t expect to you react to that right now. You can think about it. Uh, Please talk to Ujjal, Ujjal knows this is the discussion I am having with you. Please feel free and say you know whatever you, you know – ah he knows. And then uh, if that proposal is of some interest to you, then um then I will talk to Volpe and get something happening.

Now Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh says that Grewal came to him, possibly hoping to entrap the Liberals. So all I ask is to read that over again with Grewal saying "So, can you guys make my wife and I senators?" Or words to the effect before the recording starts.

In any event I'd perfer to hear the whole recording before I passed judgement, of course the Conservatives wouldn't. They enjoy only hearing parts of things they like and ignoring the rest.... Hmmmm why does that sound farmilliar?

Sounds to me like he's just willing to sit down with an opposition MP and hammer out an agreement to get him on side. Notice how he's not offering him anything? Notice how the mention of the Senate is right at the beginning of the transcript so we don't know in what context it was being said? And even then the only mention of Senate in the tape is met with a negative reaction?

Sad thing is this garbage will probably fool people.

[Guest eureka]

Grewal is clearly lying or telling only half the story. It sounds more like an attempt to get him amnesty from the investigation into his immigration dealings.

[Shakeyhands]

I think Grewal is full of it. Obviously its an entrapment attempt. It almost soaunds Roveish and doesn't surprise me a bit.

But as usual you rightwing people will jump at this and turn it into another thing that is repeated os often it becomes fact by repitition

[August1991]

Grewal is clearly lying or telling only half the story. It sounds more like an attempt to get him amnesty from the investigation into his immigration dealings.

Can the CoS of the PM get amnesty? Would he answer such a request in the following way:

And then uh, if that proposal is of some interest to you, then um then I will talk to Volpe and get something happening.

----

You are welcome to dislike Stephen Harper and the policies of the Conservative Party. You can even say that you would prefer to have Charles Manson as PM rather than Stephen Harper.

But please, open your eyes to this government. As Caesar famously said on this forum, Denial is not only a river in Egypt.

[The Terrible Sweal]

The go between between Grewal and Dosanj (a mutual friend) says Grewal made the first approach. And it turns out he came carrying a tape recorder. Looks like a sleazy attempt to get the Liberals to do something sleazy that didn't quit turn out that way, so Grewal has tried to pretend the Liberals did something with this partial recording. Typical tory sleaze.

[I miss Reagan]

Grewal is clearly lying or telling only half the story. It sounds more like an attempt to get him amnesty from the investigation into his immigration dealings.

Oh clearly.

August is right, you guys need to open your eyes. Hate the Conservatives all you want but don't be so blindly loyal. It's embarrasing. If this were anywhere else the people would be in revolt. The Liberal Party is corrupt. Be balanced. Hell I'm one of the most partisan guys around and I can even recognize when too much power has corrupted my party. This is why I now oppose the Klien government, and they are nothing compared to the Federal Libs.

[Littlefinger]

The truth comes out - Grewal lied in his attempt to entrap the Liberals.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...wel-050519.html

The man who acted as a go-between for Conservative member of Parliament Gurmant Grewal and federal Liberals during recent talks about crossing the floor confirms a Liberal minister's claim that Grewal initiated the negotiations.

Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal leaves a news conference in Ottawa Wednesday May 18, 2005. (CP photo)

Sudesh Kalia has told CBC News that Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh told the truth when he said the Liberals did not approach Grewal about helping the Liberals by abstaining from a key budget vote.

Kalia, who says he is a friend of both Grewal and Dosanjh, told CBC reporter Eric Sorensen that Grewal definitely made the first approach.

He also said Grewal had been talking about crossing the floor to the Liberals for "a couple of years."

[ScottBrison]

Grewal is clearly lying or telling only half the story. It sounds more like an attempt to get him amnesty from the investigation into his immigration dealings.

Oh clearly.

August is right, you guys need to open your eyes. Hate the Conservatives all you want but don't be so blindly loyal. It's embarrasing. If this were anywhere else the people would be in revolt. The Liberal Party is corrupt. Be balanced. Hell I'm one of the most partisan guys around and I can even recognize when too much power has corrupted my party. This is why I now oppose the Klien government, and they are nothing compared to the Federal Libs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We're not the ones that should be embarrased! Just how easy is it to fool you Tories? Your hate for the Liberals, of ANY Liberal has blinded you so much you're willing to accept:

- A bogus confidence vote.

- A non-incriminating, clipped section of audio tape.

- The Prosecutorial half of a public inquiry.

Open YOUR eyes for a change.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Who put the wire on Grewal?

COUGHtomCOUGHflanaCOUGH?

[kimmy]

But please, open your eyes to this government.  As Caesar famously said on this forum, Denial is not only a river in Egypt.

Yes, that sounds much like our dearly missed Caesar. She was probably giggling to herself for hours after she posted that.

....

So what's the deal, anyway? Why the disbelief? What have the Liberals done to make you think they're ethically above doing something like this? Just given their actions in just the past couple of months, why would you assume they're too good for this?

CTV Ottawa bureau chief Bob Fife said while the Liberals appear to be languishing on the ropes: "Only a fool would count the Liberals out."

Although they don't have enough votes on their own to stay alive, said Fife, "they control the purse strings and patronage."

He said the Liberals aren't just hard at work wooing the three independents, but are even working on some Tory MPs.

"The Senate is called the pot of gold under the parliamentary rainbow," said Fife. "And they're working at offering some Tory MPs some Senate seats."

One rumour on Parliament Hill last week was that some Trudeau-era Liberals were urging Martin to appoint some Tory MPs to the Senate to further lessen the chance of a successful non-confidence vote.

"And certainly the Tories tell me they're worried about that happening," said Fife.

Source: CTV

Here's the Ottawa bureau chief of a national network (and not even Global!) putting his name to the claim that the Liberals are trying to use patronage appointments to get Tory MPs out of parliament. So when tape-recorded evidence of just such a discussion appears, your reaction, naturally, is "UNTHINKABLE! COULDN'T BE! LIES, ALL LIES!!!"

-k

[takeanumber]

COUGHtomCOUGHflanaCOUGH?

Agreed.

I don't believe Grewal or Flannagan.

It's just not credible.

[Black Dog]

One the one hand, I have no trouble believing the Liberals would stoop to this kind of trick. On the other, though, I really can't beleive they wouldn't consider the risks involved. We know they are crooked: the question now becomes "are they stupid?"

[I miss Reagan]

We know they are crooked: the question now becomes "are they stupid?"

No, desperate. BD, I think there are a few people here who would disagree that the Liberals are crooked.

[ScottBrison]

We know they are crooked: the question now becomes "are they stupid?"

No, desperate. BD, I think there are a few people here who would disagree that the Liberals are crooked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would disagree (and be correct BTW) that the majority of them aren't.

[Black Dog]

Desperate? I don't think so. The Cons have stalle dout. We're back to where we started and he Libs should be savvy enouh to know no to rock the boat. The Cons, too have a history of dirty tricks (see: Sgro).

(Also: isn't wiretapping illegal?)

EDIT:

Andre Coyne's blog mentions that trafficking in offices is a Criminal Code offense. So if Grewal is telling the truth, he should hand over copies of the tape and demand an RCMP investigation.

Also: Go-between says Tory MP approached Liberals

[Guest eureka]

There is no doubt that Grewal was lying: a child could see that. For all the reasons that have been given. There is no depth these Cons would not stoop to in their lust for power.

The Liberals would not hesitate to remove a Conservative in this way, or any other. They are not stupid, though, and would never do it in a way that could so easily come back to them.

That is the major difference between the parties. The Liberals have the brains and the Conservatives the lackeys of CEOs. The latter are notoriously blind and unable to see the consequences of their dishonesty until they get caught.