Trudeau great?

[Pateris]

Why do so many Canadians remember Trudeau fondly?

During his tenure as PM the national debt grew by 10 TIMES, from $11 Billion to $128 BILLION. The federal deficit in 1968 was ZERO, while in 1984 it was $25 Billion.

PET was responsible for NONE of the key social programs Canadians claim are sacred, such as EI, CPP, OAS, or the health care system. The exception is he was responsible for the Canada Health Act which hamstrung the system by ensuring we have waiting lists and people seeking treatment in the US because it takes too long here.

PET expanded the regional development agencies which have done little if anything to improve the economic state of the regions and have created disincentives for people to move where the real economic growth occurs.

PET expanded EI (then UI) to make it easier for people to collect for longer periods, costing the taxpayers more money and creating a disincentive for people to work or move to where there is work.

PET destroyed the Canadian military, which in prior decades had been a significant and respected force.

PET wasted BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars buying PetroCanada from Fina of Belgium and this didn't provide Canada with a better oil industry or better prices for Canadians.

PET restricted economic growth through Maoist/Marxist policies limiting trade, investment and profit-making which raised unemployment.

PET often lied to the electorate for political reasons. In 1974 he railed against Stanfield's "price controls" then implemented them after he won anyway. In 1980 he railed against Clark's gas tax increase, then increased them even further after he won.

PET ruled through a period that was almost entirely an economic depression.

PET failed to fix the native problem as his government promised in a 1970 white paper by Chretien's department.

PET was openly antagonistic to a best friend, neighbour and biggest trading partner.

His only real accomplishment was the repatration of the Constistution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms - which Quebec has never accepted, and the courts have extended beyond it's text. Further, the Charter does not protect the individual's right to own property or to defend it from seizure. Because he didn't think people should OWN property (Marxist thinking).

So why do so many Canadians remember him fondly?

[kimmy]

I think it's something that can't be explained using facts or logic... you need rostrums.

(nobody else knows what I'm talking about, but I bet The Sweal snorts coffee out his nose when he reads that. )

In all honesty, I expect you'll be accused of being Albertan or worse. Myself and my parents were living in Ottawa at the time of his death, and with myself being too young and my parents being too Albertan to "get it", we were all quite bemused at the massive outpouring of public maudlinisms and the long lineups to visit his corpse.

-kimmy

[Tawasakm]

I think it's something that can't be explained using facts or logic... you need rostrums.

(nobody else knows what I'm talking about, but I bet The Sweal snorts coffee out his nose when he reads that. )

On the contrary I remember the thread well and had a bit of a chuckle myself. Even though we all know that he really meant 'nostrums'.

[cybercoma]

fuddle-duddle.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Pateris,

You know very well why people admire Trudeau, you just disagree with either the reasons or the attribution of them to Trudeau.

[fracan]

I think a lot of it has to do with what is being discussed in another thread right now -- the Liberals' skill with propaganda (oops, I mean marketing). The CBC also likes to puff up Trudeau every chance they get.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Pateris,

PET often lied to the electorate for political reasons. In 1974 he railed against Stanfield's "price controls" then implemented them after he won anyway. In 1980 he railed against Clark's gas tax increase, then increased them even further after he won.

I can't believe a politician would promise something to the electorate and then renege after the election. People might disparagingly start calling that "An Election Promise". Seriously, though, at the time, it was my opinion (and the opinion of many others) that Joe Who got turfed with a non-confidence vote because he was too honest. Everyone knew that the tax increase was coming, (I remember seeing a video in school of puppets (ala 'Spitting Image') of Joe Clark singing (to the tune of the Bee Gee's 'Stayin' Alive) "Stayin' Alive, With 6/5". There were also fake bank notes printed up as jokes, with Joe Who and the phrase "A Fool and his Fuel are soon Parted".

As for the popularity of Trudeau, he was Canada's 'philosopher king' coming out of the hippie era (his wife smoked pot with the Rolling Stones), he was outdoorsy (an avid canoeist,etc) and left wing, to many 'A Real Canadian'. His blackest mark will always be the NEP, and deservedly so, but he had charisma and occasionally an elegant charm, something sorely lacking in almost all political arenas.

[Newfie Canadian]

It wasn't the policies, or the laws or legislation (although there are plenty of them, good and bad).

It was the flair, the intrigue, the flamboyance and the personality.

Peter Mansbridge once said in referring to explaining to an American the appeal of Trudeau at the time of his death that Trudeau was our Kennedy.

He may have been right.

At least that's my take.

[I miss Reagan]

Great post Pateris, you nailed it. I think Newfie gave the correct answer, though I would've used a less positive spin. He was one Canadian Politician who actually had a little personality. He was strong and decisive. But he would best be described as, a great man once said, "a major league asshole" and remembered as the man who gave the west half of his country the finger.

[cybercoma]

Trudeau, in the words of Will Ferguson, is an archetypal bastard. I think that's precisely what this country could use right now.

[Cameron]

Trudeau was a donkey!

Wasn't he part of a youth communist party when he was younger? Oh well, that will be a time in this country that Canadian's had a brain fart, just like they did over the past 10+ years....

[PocketRocket]

Trudeau was not afraid to take it on the chin. He backed down from no battle.

Yeah, he did some things that were, or have become, unpopular.

But, Trudeau was that rarest of brids, A Leader. Someone who people would follow willingly, not simply because of his position.

I recall the tv coverage of the FLQ crisis. I was just a kid, but still I could grasp what was going on.

I was fully aware that imposing martial law was something Trudeau was doing at considerable political risk to himself, and when he said "Just watch me", that was the moment I became a Trudeau fan.

Many of his policies I disagree with in retrospect, but the man and his family seemed to fascinate the public, and not just in Canada.

Love him or hate him, no one seems to be indifferent.

Can't say that for a lot of other politicians. Really. Who recalls, with passion, the likes of Joe Clark, or Bill Davis, or Ed Broadbent or What'shisname, or That Other guy????

This country has a long history of blase Prime Ministers.

Pierre was certainly not one of those.

[August1991]

PocketRocket, your post is all about image - "Trudeau put us on the map", "Trudeau was a leader" - but what did the guy concretely do? Name something.

[Bakunin]

I see him like someone that liked to provoke, that don't know where to draw the line.Terribly arrogant just like the liberal...

In WW2 he was wearing a SS helm... talk about someone with no judgement.

[cybercoma]

PocketRocket, your post is all about image - "Trudeau put us on the map", "Trudeau was a leader" - but what did the guy concretely do?  Name something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess finally putting through a Constitution isn't enough?

[Guest eureka]

Some of the things that Trudeau did were the things that Pateris said he did.

Of course, Pateris is totally at sea in the coclusions he draws from those actions. The actuality was often the opposite.

[Bro]

How many average Canadians{the taxpayers},has the new constitiution helped?Please leave the liberal affiliated lawyers out of your numbers,because we all know they are the biggest group to benefit from the new constitution.

[Guest eureka]

We do not have a new Constitution. We do need to properly interpret the one we have.

[August1991]

PocketRocket, your post is all about image - "Trudeau put us on the map", "Trudeau was a leader" - but what did the guy concretely do?  Name something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess finally putting through a Constitution isn't enough?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trudeau "put through a Constitution" in 1982 - some 14 years after his first election and only because Rene Levesque had held a referendum on Quebec independance. (Trudeau promised to put his parliamentary seat en jeu.)

And what was this "Constitution" of 1982? A charter of rights - something we already had through our existing constitution. Brought in over the unanimous rejection of Quebec's National Assembly (its provincial legislature). Quebec federalists, Claude Ryan, voted against.

Trudeau's genuine attempt at a new Constitution failed in Victoria in 1971. In 1982, Trudeau did as the Americans in Vietnam: he declared victory and went home.

----

Trudeau created "Opportunities for Youth", "Canada World Youth" and "Katimavik" - these all derive from Trudeau's ideas of participatory democracy.

Trudeau provided government finance for the "Status of Women" council, the Economic Council of Canada, the IDRC and re-inforced federal labour legislation. This derives from his theory of creating "counterweights".

Trudeau imposed the War Measures Act - he felt the federal government must defend the union at all costs. "Where's Biafra?" He created a federal Urban Affairs Department because he wanted to push the envelope on federal powers.

Trudeau brought in Wage and Price Controls - because he thought John Kenneth Galbraith was an intelligent, far-sighted economist.

Trudeau passed the 1976 Immigration Act. Toronto and Vancouver became entirely different cities. His 1977 Citizenship Act was almost libertarian.

More than anything, Trudeau created a bilingual federal public service. He created the $800 bilingual premium and the designated positions. Before Trudeau, francophones were second-class citizens in Ottawa. Trudeau changed that.

Trudeau eliminated the position of deputy minister (Mitchell Sharp, for example) and replaced them with DMs and ADMs. Trudeau created revolving EX positions.

Trudeau created this crazy criteria, derived directly from Montreal, that the measure of a person is their ability to speak a language. [somerset Maugham: I know a woman who can speak seven languages. Unfortunately, she can't say anything intelligent in any one of them.]

Trudeau was an anti-nationalist who became popular among English-Canadian nationalists.

Trudeau called Mulroney a pleutre in polemical articles against Mulroney's Meech Lake agreement.

Trudeau wrote an accurate, descriptive paper describing Quebec society in 1949, just before the Asbestos strike.

In Anglo-Saxon practical terms, what did Trudeau do?

[Guest eureka]

That is a fine summary, August, and all practical in my terms.

Of course, there were other accomplishments like the wrongly maligned NEP. Trudeau, though, as you say, an internationalist, went some way to turning back the tide of regionalism in Canada that has come on apace since his time.

He made many mistakes, though, and I opposed him more than I supported him. The Citizenship Act, for one, was a retroactive law that is probably unconstitutional.

[PocketRocket]

PocketRocket, your post is all about image - "Trudeau put us on the map", "Trudeau was a leader" - but what did the guy concretely do?  Name something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but the title of this thread is not "What did Trudeau accomplish", but rather "Why do people remember Trudeau fondly??"

I was addressing the question posed in the thread title.

[err]

To quote John Lennon

If all our political leaders were like Pierre Trudeau, there would be no more wars.

(for all you Conservatives, it was John Lennon from the Beatles.... not the Russian dude)

One of the great things about Trudeau was his position that he would not bend over for the Americans!!!

[August1991]

Ah, but the title of this thread is not "What did Trudeau accomplish", but rather "Why do people remember Trudeau fondly??"

I was addressing the question posed in the thread title.

Point taken.

[last_niceguy]

Trudeau was the 'people's Prime Minster'.

He seemed human whether he was wearing scandles and a Cabnet meeting or sneaking piroettes behind the Queen.

His speeches on Modern Liberalism and Canada as a nation were inspiring.

The man was not loved for what he did, he was loved for how he did.