Political Correctness

[PocketRocket]

Thanks to IMISSTRUDEAU for the link which was posted as a reply to KIMMY in another thread.

It gave me some ideas.

I had a bit of fun with this one. Hopefully, it's taken in the spirit intended, and no one gets offended.

(If you DO get offended, then that's the whole point of the post. Grow some thicker skin.)

http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml

Has political correctness gone way over the top???

Examples:

Retarded. Not a nice word. We must call them "Special needs" people.

And yet, the word "retard" simply means "to slow", a pretty good description of the mental process in someone who wears that label.

But "retarded" became on of those "dirty words"and we had to find something more sensetive.

We started with "Mentally handicapped", and that was okay for a while, but then it too became a dirty word, so we moved on to "Mentally challenged" which was good for a bit. Now, they are simply "Special".

(I guess I better not tell my girlfriend that I think she's special)

Negro: The word simply means "black" in Latin. "Nigger" was simply a slurring, or mispronunciation of "Negro", which was socially acceptable for a very long time. "Colored" was okay for a while, then it too became a dirty word (although, last I heard "Person of Colour" could be acceptably used to describe anyone with racial-hereditary dark skin tone. I feel left out here. I am a person of colour, it just happens that my colour is pale pink).

"Darky", "Spook", "Gigaboo" etc etc, were all "nicknames" which were never intended to be complimentary, but were nonetheless widely used by both whites and blacks.

During the 70's "Black" was the word of choice.

Now, it's "African American"

A rose by any other name.

American or Canadian Indians are another example. "Indian" was completely acceptable for hundreds of years.

That has all changed.

First it changed to "Native American/Canadian".

Then it became "Aboriginal Peoples"

Now it's "First Nation Peoples".

It has gotten to the point wherein the use of old, familiar phrases is being looked down upon because they may just happen to offend someone. In the link provided above, phrases like "A chink in his armor" (Chink- derogatory for Chinese) and "A nip in the air" (Nip-derogatory for Japanese) are being called into question, and some are actually suggesting that these ancient, time tested phrases be eliminated from further usage.

"Let's call a spade a spade" simply means "speak plainly". (It's also on the "recommended not to use" list)

Don't even get me started on Homosexual-related words and their original meanings. Oops, too late now, here it comes....

Gay.....Happy or glad.

Faggot......A burning log.

Homo....A grade of milk.

Queer.....Odd or peculiar.

Queen....A ruling monarch (usually female).

From now on, I want the same consideration.

I am NOT bald. I am "Follicly Impaired".

My nose is not big. I am "Nasally Gifted".

I am not short. I am "Vertically Challenged".

I do not have flat feet. I am "Pedally Stable".

Ridiculous.

The funny thing is that WITHIN each and every group, people feel fine using these "slurs" in a playful manne as a matter of course. Gay guys calling each other "fag" in fun. Black guys or girls calling each other "Nigga" in fun.

And so on. We've all heard it.

But if you or I call a gay guy "Faggot" or a black person "Nigger", we could well be facing a serious trouble.

My contention is simply this, ANY word or phrase can be used in hurtful manner.

Our society has got to grow a bit thicker skin and realize that it's not the name, it's the intent behind the use of the name that determines whether or not the name-caller has good or bad intentions.

My mother was Italian. My father was French/Scottish/Sioux.

I am a Wop/Frog/Haggis-Eating/WagonBurner.

And, damn it, I'M PROUD OF IT

What are you thoughts on excessive political correctness???

[Guest eureka]

Be careful with this "honky."

[August1991]

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

Eleanor Roosevelt, This Is My Story

PR, all of your examples pertain to groups with some members who feel inferior. (IME, it is common for the North American Left to play on such people's feelings.)

Ultimately, some people want respect or, as Terry Malloy put it, "I coulda been a contender" or as Rocky put it, "I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood."

The North American Left says that this problem of inferiority stems from the majority/rich/strong/men/white/ people on the other side of the tracks looking down on some folk. This must change. How? We must change language.

I have often argued here that the North American Left confuses symbol for reality and the politically correct use of language is an example. The assumption is that if everyone refers to "negros" as "blacks", or "blacks" as "African-Americans", these people will gain respect and feel less inferior.

I admire any attempt at cross-cultural understanding. And I think it's good that Clinton has been described as the first black president. Americans seem to be trying this symbol thing as a way to make people who feel inferior to feel better. But from experience, I'm suspicious of any argument that relies on symbolic change to somehow enlighten people.

(Incidentally, the term "politically correct" poses a problem in French because the translation of "political correctness" is awkward. La rectitude politique - the concept is basically unknown outside of North America.)

I have referred to the "North American Left". IME, the Left elsewhere in the world is quite different on this issue. They could not give a damn what words the rich bastards use to describe working people. I have the impression that the foreign Left in general feels that North American women, blacks or vertically-challenged are part of the world's oppression regardless of their name.

In this sense, I sometimes wonder whether people in North America become Left wing simply because they were not the favourite daughter or son in the family. They feel left out. They want respect. Mom and Dad preferred a sibling. (At least the Left outside North America makes it plain that they simply want more money.)

As a last point, the queer/gay/homo/lesbo thing makes me wonder. These people, often, are rich, urban DINKs (double income, no kids). They have every material benefit in life - condos and regular foreign holidays.

IMV, if we want to help the so-called "oppressed" in society (in this world), we should start with children and with groups who can genuinely be helped, through concrete, material means. Not through symbolic acts of name changes.

The Left's obsession with gay rights (and the political correct usage for minorities) is too often a rich man's debate.

[PocketRocket]

Be careful with this "honky."

No problem. The whole point is that no matter what new, politically correct word you may use to define a group of people, eventually, it will be used in a derisive fashion by someone, and at that point it begins to degenerate to just another "bad" word.

If this was not the case, then the original words for most of the groups would still be in use.

This is what I mean by "intent". If I say a person is "mentally retarded", when they in fact are, then what's the big deal??? As long as I am not using the word in context of a slur.

When the Pretenders wrote the song "Brass In Pocket" circa 1982, I'm sure that Crissy Hynde did not mean she had mental difficulties when she sang "I'm special, so special"

I mean, there's got to be a line somewhere where we realize we've gone beyond the realm of common sense.

[PocketRocket]

August1991:

Good post. Lots of good ideas there.

I'm going to ruminate on that one for a bit. It certainly has a fair bit of food for thought.

[Black Dog]

My contention is simply this, ANY word or phrase can be used in hurtful manner.

Our society has got to grow a bit thicker skin and realize that it's not the name, it's the intent behind the use of the name that determines whether or not the name-caller has good or bad intentions.

Usage determines the meaning of words. Language is capable of social evolution. There's a danger in simply assuming a word's meaning is benign when the words themselves come with social and historical baggage that alters the meaning. Take the "n-word" for example. The widespread usage of it as a term of endearment between African Americans is part of an attempt to "reclaim" the word. However, that does not strip it from the connotations it carries when directed at blacks by white, given the social history of the word as an insturment of oppression. Considered within that broader context, the intent of the user does not outweigh the baggage attached to the word's use.

As a last point, the queer/gay/homo/lesbo thing makes me wonder. These people, often, are rich, urban DINKs (double income, no kids). They have every material benefit in life - condos and regular foreign holidays.

August has his mind on his money and his money on his mind. Oppression need not be simply material. For example, upper-class women in Victorian England were surrounded by material wealth, yet were social inferiors to men. Class trapping aside, there was a fundamental imbalance beteween the sexes (an imbalnce which persists today, but that's another story). Similarily, the social stigma around homosexuality persists and constitutes another means of oppression.

The Left's obsession with gay rights (and the political correct usage for minorities) is too often a rich man's debate.

Minority rights can be viewed as part of the broader class struggle: and divide and conquer strategies used by the ruling class to maintain their hegemony.

[Guest eureka]

This is off to an interesting start, Pocket. I think I will just read for a while.

[Unpolarized]

I think you have remember that lots of people have really have had the crappy end of the stick and words were used to characterize them. Perhaps they were women, homosexuals, aboriginals. In the past, (and for some it continues) terrible things were done to some groups and words were used that represented those terrible things or characterized the group in such a demeaning way that every time it was uttered, it reminded them of the terrible things (slavery, genocide of aboriginal groups, forced relocation, women being the property of a man etc)

There are still lots of hangover of the powerlessness of some groups and people are still regularly threatened in some way. A black man I know was spit at not that long ago. When these sorts of things happen, people get mad and defensive and touchy so the use of certain words puts salt in the wound. Its hard to know people's intent and maybe there is no nastyness intended behind certain words but unless you know the person really well, its a tough one to call..

That being said, the whole sensitivity thing can go too far the other way and what people call political correctness. It seems to me that a little common sense and sensitivity to the powerlessness or disenfranchisement of some groups is not a bad thing while we deal with some of our historical inrequities.

[RB]

This political correctness is ludicrous. It goes overboard to eliminate and assault the fear of offending others and hence gains momentum to the point of the endangerment of intellectual paralysis.

Here is what I mean.

The other day I was waiting in a line and observed a young “black” female to whom folks kept apologizing to, and sometimes for no reason at all. To me it was like the mere fact that she was physically there; people are mobilized into some apologizing mode.

So, I was curious as to why she felt they were apologizing.

Apparently, people are afraid to offend her.

She felt that she represented the entire black race at that moment of time. In fact, she feels as if she represents the entire black race every time, like there is no hiding from some decency nowadays.

She felt as if the folks were taking a major burden to apologize to an entire black race for wrongs done in the past and to redress those injustices caused by prejudice.

So now society wants to show its adaptation and the results of some social change.

Well it’s unbelievable; I saw this change actually happening, like apologizing in abundance right in front of my innocent eyes.

Anyways, so she goes on to confess this is the sort of apologetic thing happens a lot, and wondered why people have to apologize all the time. Of course she didn’t feel as if she is deserving of all these apologies.

So I thought to myself, how ungrateful it seems, that maybe, she perhaps think that it is some kind of deceit, but then that would be regarded as political incorrectness.

So, perhaps she meant people just don’t get it, the ironies I meant, or those double meanings, or the extremities of what is cascaded upon her shoulders.

Well how smart does one have to be to offend people all around left and right?

But, as if there isn’t more of wanting to resolve this redress on how to “get with the program”, or rather more like you are subdued into “culturally awareness” and on how to be “cultural sensitive”.

So, you have to be plugged into political lingo and make sure to apologize in abundance and do the morally right thing, to accommodate sensitivity bile.

[Black Dog]

The other day I was waiting in a line and observed a young “black” female to whom folks kept apologizing to, and sometimes for no reason at all. To me it was like the mere fact that she was physically there; people are mobilized into some apologizing mode.

Huh? So you're in a queue and people are randomly walking up to the black girl and apologizing? And you figure this is "political correctness" in action? Sorry, but that story doesn't make any sense.

[Argus]

Be careful with this "honky."

No problem. The whole point is that no matter what new, politically correct word you may use to define a group of people, eventually, it will be used in a derisive fashion by someone, and at that point it begins to degenerate to just another "bad" word.

There is a phrase the left invented a few years back in hopes it would replace a word they thought had poor connotations in the minds of many; immigrant. The phrase they chose to replace it with was the politically correct and antiseptic "New Canadian". I was at a gathering the other day with someone who spoke of his idiot neighours, and used the phrase "new Canadian" in such a droll and sarcastic manner that everyone at the table laughed at how he'd turned the politically correct phrase into a sarcastic pejorative. But actually, I've seen and heard it used in a similar manner a number of times. Just as people used to sneer at "immigrants" who get things wrong, they sneer at "new canadians" in precisely the same manner. Changing the words did nothing.

Because it is the attitude which counts, and the attitude grows out of either experience or ignorance. If it grows out of ignorance then you can do something about it. If it grows out of experience, well, then forget it. You're not going to change anything.

[Digby]

I set in a tavern one time an discussed with a black gentlemen why the word nigger would bother him .

He went on to tell me he had a dictionary that was extreemly old maybe up around 100 years old or more . He had looked up the word nigger in this old book .

The meaning was AN ITEM USED TO DO ONES WORK .

I got thinking about this and it must be true as for as long as i can recall the head on a winch that we take our takles to on a boat is called a niggerhead .

I actually got in trouble with this in California , i was giveing orders to my mostly non english speaking blacker skinned crew . I was telling them to take the rope to the niggerhead . They dropped every thing and was ready to fight as all they heard was the word nigger and they thought i was throwing insults at them.

But few blacks in this generation actually know that to be called a nigger is to be called a slave . The anger from being called this has been passed down through time , and the meaning of the word was not passed down.

[jccc]

Lets not forget "Manhole" We now have to call them "maintainace holes"

How retarded!!!

Jim

[theloniusfleabag]

I have noted several great points throughout this thread, the best I think is by Argus...

I was at a gathering the other day with someone who spoke of his idiot neighours, and used the phrase "new Canadian" in such a droll and sarcastic manner that everyone at the table laughed at how he'd turned the politically correct phrase into a sarcastic pejorative.

All too true, and most people who enjoy using the derogatory will continue to do so, regardless of what we change the 'name of a rose' to.

Lets not forget "Manhole" We now have to call them "maintainace holes"

How retarded!!!

jccc: Next thing you know, we'll be renaming 'Lake Titicaca', and changing the language 'Hebrew' to 'Webrew'.. (thank you "Duckman")

[August1991]

You are right Thelonious:

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose

By any other word would smell as sweet."

I admire Shakespeare for such a phrase. It sounds good to one's ear and the idea is also sound. It is a universal truth.

[I Miss Trudeau]

I was at a gathering the other day with someone who spoke of his idiot neighours, and used the phrase "new Canadian" in such a droll and sarcastic manner that everyone at the table laughed at how he'd turned the politically correct phrase into a sarcastic pejorative.

Simple solution: castrate people like this, and take away their children.

[kimmy]

When the Pretenders wrote the song "Brass In Pocket" circa 1982, I'm sure that Crissy Hynde did not mean she had mental difficulties when she sang "I'm special, so special" 

well said.

If someone does something stupid or inept, and someone else calls them mentally handicapped (by whatever euphemism) then what's really occured?

Someone has equated stupid or inept behavior with mental handicaps. That's really where the insult has taken place, not in the choice of words.

Some time this past winter, we had a thread about a native woman who'd sued her employer for calling her "Kemosabe". I believe the content of the judge's ruling was something to the effect that the word "Kemosabe" was not obviously hateful and therefore the onus was on the woman to make it clear that she did not wish to be addressed as such. While that's probably sensible, I suspect it probably didn't really reflect the nature of the relationship between the woman and her employer. While I'm just guessing, I suspect they weren't using it in the same way the Lone Ranger addressed his good friend. I suspect they were, more or less, addressing her as "Visible Minority". Again the problem is not in the use of the word "Kemosabe", but in singling this person out for her ethnic background.

I once saw a piece on the Jon Steward Show where Rob Corddry interviewed a "demographically diverse" group for their reactions to a new production of Fiddler on the Roof that stars (gasp!) a Gentile. The piece was, if I recall, supposed to be a send-up of the coverage of The Passion of the Christ, all those interviews that people start off "As a Christian, I found this movie to be..." or "as a Jew..." etc. In the Rob Corddry piece, he addresses people only by their ethnic group. "Jew: what did you think of Fiddler? Too 'goyim'?" "Black man: you're also Christian. You're two things. You're a Christian, and you're black." On one hand, it can be helpful to know someone's background when you're assessing what perspective and biases they bring to the table. However, I think the point of the Corddry piece was that too often it goes from that somewhat useful purpose, to the somewhat less valuable purpose of validating a perspective with token representatives. "We can't air your article on basketball shoes until you interview a black kid. Get on it."

-kimmy

{not "a blonde"... "a fair-haired Canadian."}

{not pale... "Pigment-challenged" or "Suntan impaired".}

[PocketRocket]

  I set in a tavern  one time an discussed with a black gentlemen  why the word  nigger  would bother him .

I would not have had the courage to ask him that question. That you were able to do so in such a way as to provoke informative conversation gives me reason to admire you.

  The meaning (of "nigger") was  AN ITEM USED TO DO ONES WORK . 

I've learned something new today. Thanks.

  I got thinking about this  and  it must be true  as  for as long as i can recall  the head on a winch  that we take our  takles to on a boat  is called  a niggerhead .

I actually got in trouble with this in California  , i was giveing  orders  to my mostly  non english  speaking  blacker skinned crew  . I was  telling them to take  the rope to the niggerhead . They  dropped  every thing and was ready  to fight

I had an uncle who was a fisherman, so I've heard this term.

But hey, good thing you didn't say "Put the rope around the niggerhead". They might have instead put it around yours

Lets not forget "Manhole" We now have to call them "maintainace holes"

How retarded!!!

Jim

This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm surprised that we haven't yet, as a group, been re-named "The Hu-Person Race". "Human" is obviously referring to men.

Even that most classic of sci-fi series "Star Trek" corrected, politically, it's introduction narrative from "Where no man has gone before" to "Where no one has gone before".

Personally, I have gone where no man has gone before. The women's washroom in the Royal York. And believe me, once I had "gone" there, no "one" wanted to "go" there for at least twenty minutes after I had finished "going"

RB had a point with her post about everyone apologizing to the young black woman. I have a certain level of discomfort when I'm with anyone who is different from the myself and the people I normally associate with. This is not necessarily restricted to racial groups, but does include them. I just get a bit more sensetive. It is in my nature to not want to cause offense to someone, unless I actively dislike the person. With different groups, different things can cause offense.

But I do not see this "political correctness" trend as being the answer.

I see common sense and consideration as being a better answer.

A black fellow I work with rolls his eyes every time he hears someone refer to him as "African-Canadian".

In his own words "You know, "Black" is a lot easier to say, and takes a lot less time to write".

[Guest eureka]

I understand that Sesame Street has now been purified!

[Conservative1]

Although i don't agree with everything being said in this discussion, I definitely feel this political correctness has gotten way out of hand....

So i was in Compensation class a while back when my teacher mentions how we should not refer to secretary's as secretary's anymore rather "administrative assistants", and we should not refer to temps as temps anymore rather "part time worker"

Where does the insanity end?

[Black Dog]

All too true, and most people who enjoy using the derogatory will continue to do so, regardless of what we change the 'name of a rose' to.

Wel duh. A guy like the late, unlamented Wolfgang Droege probably wouldn't hesitate to use terms like "nigger" or what have you, precisely because of the historic hatefullness the word conveys. But then, folks like him also sneer at "political correctness".

What people seem to be missing out on is the essential fact that a word is not just a word. A rose by any othe rname would smell as sweet, but how would your wife react to getting a bouquet of, say, crap-blossoms instead? Words matter and while some "politically correct" terminology can seem silly or frivolous, I'm not convinced the whole concept is "insanity".

[Argus]

I was at a gathering the other day with someone who spoke of his idiot neighours, and used the phrase "new Canadian" in such a droll and sarcastic manner that everyone at the table laughed at how he'd turned the politically correct phrase into a sarcastic pejorative.

Simple solution: castrate people like this, and take away their children.

Heh. And I just got done comparing Eureka and Terrible Sweal to Muslim fanatics. It appears the comparison is more general for all you wild-eyed politically correct types than I had suspected.

[Guest eureka]

I have not reached that comparison yet, Argus. It should be interesting and leave you, the most fanatical anti politician on the Forums, open to wounding.