caesar Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 In war you break the rules you pay with your life...it is that simple ....and it all happens in split seconds... Number one; this is not now nor never was a "WAR" And just what rules did the Italians break Why do we blame the Americans; Because it has happened with civillians time and time again. Quote
caesar Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 The Car was speeding, as is every veh over there makes it harder to get shot at....they failed to slow down and stop at the check piont and they paid the price .... That has been denied by the Italians. Speed should not be cause for killing the occupants of a vehicle; Plenty opf people are scared and do not want to stick around an area where there are either Americans or insurgents. Quote
Black Dog Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 Interesting: Troops Who Fired on Freed Italian Journalist Were Security for Negroponte U.S. troops who mistakenly killed an Italian intelligence agent last week on the road to Baghdad's international airport were part of extra security provided by the U.S. Army to protect U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte, a U.S. official said Thursday.Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was killed Friday when U.S. troops opened fire on a car carrying him and Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, who had just been freed from insurgents. "The mobile patrol was there to enhance security because Ambassador Negroponte was expected through," U.S. Embassy spokesman Robert Callahan said, confirming reports in Italian media. The newspaper La Repubblica reported Wednesday that the checkpoint had been "set up to protect the passage of Ambassador Negroponte." Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
Army Guy Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 Black dog: We don' know anything for sure as none of us were there. nor are any of us privy to any of the evidence , but that does not stop any of us from forming opinoins....alot of opinions here on this board are very bias towards anything american...and assume that any US servicemen involved in any action is guilty as charged ....Well, we have a litany of U.S. "mistakes" to base such conclusions upon. And yet we have made opinions with out all the facts...every american soldier over in Iraq is guilty of a war crime or is trigger happy because you have a litany of US mistakes....how many US soldiers in Iraq today...You have been busting my balls about my remarks about Muslims and yet most not all are doing the same about americans....I've been on alot of combine or multi national operations and the americans are not as bad as you and most on the board paint them to be... By the way, if "everybody knows" about the ROE, then why does this stuff keep happening? I mean, if you were a suicide bombe rand you came onto a checkpoint when you know such things tend to result in bullet-riddled cars, would you hit the gas or drive up to the checkpoint all nice and then BOOM!? you tell me if it is a way of life for everyone in Iraq why ? Trust me if it is you on those check pionts and your life is on the line every second you get good a reading people and their reactions ...most bombers do rush the check pionts so they can use the vehs momnetum to push into or beyond the check piont to kill maxuim numbers... Actually, its mostly Iraqis who are paying for their lives. like i said you break the rules you pay with your life... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
theloniusfleabag Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 Dear Black Dog, Interesting:Troops Who Fired on Freed Italian Journalist Were Security for Negroponte Interesting that it took the US almost a week to cook up that story. If the troops manning the roadblock on a special assignment knew who they were 'protecting', then why didn't they say so right away? If they didn't know, then it is just as likely they could have shot Negroponte.... Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
Army Guy Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 Ceasar: Number one; this is not now nor never was a "WAR" You can call it what ever you want...but it's as close to war as you can get.... That has been denied by the Italians. Speed should not be cause for killing the occupants of a vehicle; Plenty opf people are scared and do not want to stick around an area where there are either Americans or insurgents. Listen if you are in a veh, approaching a road block, at any great speed ,they will warn you to slow down, if the veh does not slow down if there is room a second warning should be given if there is not enough room you take out the driver...this stops the veh , perhaps the driver needs to trigger the divice manually so by killing him it negates the trigger....people should be scared when they approach a road block....and they should also be mindful of everything going on around them as well... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Black Dog Posted March 11, 2005 Report Posted March 11, 2005 And yet we have made opinions with out all the facts...every american soldier over in Iraq is guilty of a war crime or is trigger happy because you have a litany of US mistakes....how many US soldiers in Iraq today...You have been busting my balls about my remarks about Muslims and yet most not all are doing the same about americans....I've been on alot of combine or multi national operations and the americans are not as bad as you and most on the board paint them to be... I'm restricting my criticsm here to US personel in Iraq. That's a far cry from generalizing about a entire religion. Trust me if it is you on those check pionts and your life is on the line every second you get good a reading people and their reactions ... Did you look at the links I posted about checkpoints? like i said you break the rules you pay with your life... The point is that not everyone knows the rules, nor can you expect everyone to react according to the "rules" even if they are aware. Of course, the surest way to solve these problems is to get the U.S. out of Iraq. Quote "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." - Francis M. Wilhoit
Argus Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 Contrast that with the total silence from the American media and politial establishment on the thousands of Americans killed or maimed in Iraq, including the Pentagon ban on photos of coffins coming home. Bush can't even be bothered to attend any of the funerals. Total silence? I don't spend a lot of time on the American media but CBS has a daily news feature on a "hero" killed in Iraq, telling the story of this or that soldier, who they were, what they wanted to be, showing their family, etc. I occasionally catch similar items on CNN, and local media certainly covers it when a local boy dies in Iraq. I caught that on both Detroit and New York stations. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 It's easy to blame everything on the US, as the AL Quaida is a mindless organization with no agenda of it's own, and can hardly be held accountable for any of it's actions... Because the Italians paid a ransom for her release; the USA government does not want anyone negotiating successfully with the terrorists. The Italians did not "negotiate" with the terrorists, they paid them off, much as the French have done. Needless to say when you are a dirt-poor Arab and you hear that you can get millions from kidnapping a foreigner, well, let's just say that every time this happens a hundred more would-be kidnappers spring out of the bushes eager for the cash. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
theloniusfleabag Posted March 13, 2005 Report Posted March 13, 2005 Dear Argus, Needless to say when you are a dirt-poor Arab and you hear that you can get millions from kidnapping a foreigner, well, let's just say that every time this happens a hundred more would-be kidnappers spring out of the bushes eager for the cash.You are right, but this is a tough issue. Should the reporter have been allowed to be killed to prove a point? Does the gov't risk public scorn at home for appearing to not care about the fate of a countryman? What about the 52 American hostages in Iran that were released when the US agreed to provide Iran with weapons (and using the cash to fund the Contras in S. America)? These are not really comparable, I'll admit, but it still amounted to the USA paying a ransom. I think that if someone is aware of the dangers inherent in an action, they are solely responsible for the consequences. Contractors, etc in Iraq chose to go there for the money, and some paid for it with their lives. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events?
I Miss Trudeau Posted March 15, 2005 Report Posted March 15, 2005 Needless to say when you are a dirt-poor Arab and you hear that you can get millions from kidnapping a foreigner, well, let's just say that every time this happens a hundred more would-be kidnappers spring out of the bushes eager for the cash. ..... therefore anyone who "pays off" the hostage takers should be murdered in cold blood...? Quote Feminism.. the new face of female oppression!
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