Wal-Mart to close unionized store in Quebec

[bloodyminded]

One matter about Wal-Mart has been left out here; I actually worked in the damn place, so I can tell you:

Wal-Mart is run by a bunch of assholes.

now, nothing illegal about that. Assholes have every right to run a business, and every right to be assholes. But that doesn't change the fact a whit that they ARE assholes.

Any company who periodically spies on their employees is a bunch of draconian jerk-offs.

Any company that checks its employees bags as they leave the store is morally degenerate.

[Mr.Canada]

One matter about Wal-Mart has been left out here; I actually worked in the damn place, so I can tell you:

Wal-Mart is run by a bunch of assholes.

now, nothing illegal about that. Assholes have every right to run a business, and every right to be assholes. But that doesn't change the fact a whit that they ARE assholes.

Any company who periodically spies on their employees is a bunch of draconian jerk-offs.

Any company that checks its employees bags as they leave the store is morally degenerate.

Employee theft accounts for over 60% of all store thefts. It's called leakage. I don't have a problem with this at all. It's just about the only thing I don't.

[Smallc]

You don't have a problem with theft? You do realize that theft depresses profits and by extension wages, right?

[Mr.Canada]

You don't have a problem with theft? You do realize that theft depresses profits and by extension wages, right?

Are you thick? I was commenting on the above post I quoted. I don't have a problem with them checking bags and doing whatever is necessary to stop employee theft which accounts for roughly 60% of all retail theft which is called leakage in the industry. Geez, I thought I made that clear, I guess some people need everything spoon fed to them.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[bloodyminded]

Employee theft accounts for over 60% of all store thefts. It's called leakage. I don't have a problem with this at all. It's just about the only thing I don't.

As an employee, I was no more responsible for theft than Canadian Wal-Mart President Cheesewright.

Not one, single bit more responsible than him.

At any rate, setting up a combative relationship between employer and employee in this way will (and does) result in increased alienation from the company and less productivity.

Wal-Mart might consider asking itself WHY employee thefts are so high.

Is it that Wal-Mart employees tend to be morally questionable people? Well, I can inform you that is not the case--though the profoundly classist WalMart bigwigs no doubt look down on their employees with disdain and mistrust.

Maybe WalMart might make the sound business decision of choosing to look in the mirror for flaws.

But no, they won't: because they're arrogant, and because they think all problems are created by the weaker and poorer members of society.

Like all insufferable, effete little elitists.

[Mr.Canada]

As an employee, I was no more responsible for theft than Canadian Wal-Mart President Cheesewright.

Not one, single bit more responsible than him.

At any rate, setting up a combative relationship between employer and employee in this way will (and does) result in increased alienation from the company and less productivity.

Wal-Mart might consider asking itself WHY employee thefts are so high.

Is it that Wal-Mart employees tend to be morally questionable people? Well, I can inform you that is not the case--though the profoundly classist WalMart bigwigs no doubt look down on their employees with disdain and mistrust.

Maybe WalMart might make the sound business decision of choosing to look in the mirror for flaws.

But no, they won't: because they're arrogant, and because they think all problems are created by the weaker and poorer members of society.

Like all insufferable, effete little elitists.

Blood, I hate Wal Mart, make no mistake about it. I am no defending Wal Mart here but this goes for all retailers together not just Wal Mart. Perhaps you have never stolen but many many do. They aren't going to come out and say it to anyone but it happens. Might not even be in huge amounts at a time. Some batteries here, a pop there. Oh just a snack for my break etc etc. Theft can happen in a number of ways.

[segnosaur]

There is a $10 billion lawsuit against Wal Mart for discrimination going through the courts right now.

Yes there is. And guess what? They have this little concept called "innocent until proven guilty". In the U.S., lawsuits are relatively easy to launch.

(I could also point out the fact that there is a long history of frivilous lawsuits actually being successful... the McDonalds hot coffee case comes to mind...)

90% of management of Walmart, the whole company CEO's and downward are men. 60% of the lowest paying jobs are held by women. These are facts.

Your 'facts' are wrong. I posted a reference to an article appearing in Forbes magazine showing that your figures are way, way off. Don't suppose you'd actually want to, you know, educate yourself so that you quit spreading idiotic nonsense?

So, lets see... what's more believable... an article appearing in a mainstream media source like Forbes, written by professional journalists, or some random unsupported claim by an anonymous web poster who seems to have a history of making claims that are debunked when the actual facts come out....

[bloodyminded]

Blood, I hate Wal Mart, make no mistake about it. I am no defending Wal Mart here but this goes for all retailers together not just Wal Mart. Perhaps you have never stolen but many many do. They aren't going to come out and say it to anyone but it happens. Might not even be in huge amounts at a time. Some batteries here, a pop there. Oh just a snack for my break etc etc. Theft can happen in a number of ways.

It might or might not be true of all retailers. But let's not forget that Wal-Mart has more dissatisfaction (and a much higher employee turnover rate) than any other major employer, by a long shot.

This is WalMart's fault.

Unless we determine that WalMart CEO's and professional spokespeople are right, and hundreds of thousands of disaffected andf disenchanted employees are wrong.

We can make that classist, elitist claim if we like. I'd prefer not to.

further, I've worked in the private sector my entire life. I've had many different jobs. And not a single ONE of them ever checked my belongings on the way out the door (after a physically-demanding shift in which I worked very hard for the company for low wages); and not a single one of them ever SPIED on me while I was working.

Look at it this way, since you're a Christian man: spying on your employees, without their knowledge (we discovered this by accident) is by its nature dishonest.

It's akin to a lie. And my understanding is that Christians don't much like lying, or aren't supposed to, anyway.

We shouldn't hold wealthy and powerful institutions to lower standards than we hold everyone else.

And you wouldn't justify WalMart being dishonest--deceiving its employees as they spy on them. Would you?

Any company that treats its employees with the respect of human beings is fine. Any company that undermines the basic human dignity of its employees is being run by smarmy little degenerates.

Like WalMart is.

Edited December 14, 2009 by bloodyminded

[Mr.Canada]

It might or might not be true of all retailers. But let's not forget that Wal-Mart has more dissatisfaction (and a much higher employee turnover rate) than any other major employer, by a long shot.

This is WalMart's fault.

Unless we determine that WalMart CEO's and professional spokespeople are right, and hundreds of thousands of disaffected andf disenchanted employees are wrong.

We can make that classist, elitist claim if we like. I'd prefer not to.

further, I've worked in the private sector my entire life. I've had many different jobs. And not a single ONE of them ever checked my belongings on the way out the door (after a physically-demanding shift in which I worked very hard for the company for low wages); and not a single one of them ever SPIED on me while I was working.

Look at it this way, since you're a Christian man: spying on your employees, without their knowledge (we discovered this by accident) is by its nature dishonest.

It's akin to a lie. And my understanding is that Christians don't much like lying, or aren't supposed to, anyway.

We shouldn't hold wealthy and powerful institutions to lower standards than we hold everyone else.

And you wouldn't justify WalMart being dishonest--deceiving its employees as they spy on them. Would you?

Any company that treats its employees with the respect of human beings is fine. Any company that undermines the basic human dignity of its employees is being run by smarmy little degenerates.

Like WalMart is.

How is it spying on their employees?

Is a retailer putting cameras in changing areas and washrooms? If it is you should call the police as this is against the law.

All retailers have cameras in their stores, it's called security.

[bloodyminded]

How is it spying on their employees?

Is a retailer putting cameras in changing areas and washrooms? If it is you should call the police as this is against the law.

All retailers have cameras in their stores, it's called security.

I should have been more clear:

I worked on the overnight crew. Christmas season aside, the store was closed at night.

On one occasion (well, presumably a lot more than one...one that I know of absolutely for sure) one of the night managers quietly snuck in (we didn't even know she was in the store) went to the security room, and spent the night spying on us.

She at first tried to deny it; then admitted it. (So the FACT of a lie is indisputable...and WalMart, allegedly a Christian organization, is committing a direct and intentional offense against their Creator. By THEIR standards as Christians, i mean, never mind my standards.)

Of course, she felt she could justify it; it's not as if WalMart is too concerned with how outraged its employees are. It's not like they're real people, or anything.

So, that's spying; and that's deception. Again, I"m wondering if you support this.

[Argus]

Yes. Its called Capitalism. Perhaps you might have heard of it.

And guess what, almost every store sells products that were made in foreign countries. Even small boutiques. Any company that doesn't try to get the best deal for products is likely to go out of business.

I think you fail to appreciate the sheer massive size of Wal-mart and its purchasing power. Wal-Mart's power and influence are a major cause for why everyone has to supply goods built overseas now. Wal-mart is so massive a market that it draws in suppliers and then starts working at them to lower prices. It has an entire corporate section devoted to helping suppliers move their manufacturing offshore. Wal_mart's message has always been - lower your prices or we'll drop you. That has had a massive effect as more manufacturers began moving their businesses offshore in order to supply wal-mart with the cheaper goods it insisted on. Other large retail outlets were forced to go along with this, and the movement to offshore manufacturing moved from a trickle to a flood.

People get cheaper goods? Well, yeah, somewhat. But at what cost? Millions of manufacturing jobs lost, millions of others downgraded, along with retail jobs, to the point people can barely afford the crappy goods Wal-Mart sells. Would it make you happier if we dropped wages to $1hr? Think of how cheap retail prices would be then! Of course, not many could afford them but still...

[Hydraboss]

There is a $10 billion lawsuit against Wal Mart for discrimination going through the courts right now. Wal Mart has tried to stop at three levels of courts but each judge has said no it has merit as there is proof that Wal Mart systematically discriminates against women. I was hoping you'd try to say I was wrong, I am not.

90% of management of Walmart, the whole company CEO's and downward are men. 60% of the lowest paying jobs are held by women. These are facts.

To add insult to injury men who hold similarly low paying jobs make more than women.

This is fair in your mind? This isn't discriminatory?

Maybe you work for Walmart and make more than your women counter parts and like it that way. Pay equality in your mind is a farce I guess. Thank you for showing your true colours.

Why don't you just cite your reputable source and end the argument? If you know where this proof is, you should charge a $1 billion dollar finder's fee to the group taking Walmart to court. That's only 10% of what they'll win with your concrete evidence.

[Hydraboss]

I should have been more clear:

I worked on the overnight crew. Christmas season aside, the store was closed at night.

On one occasion (well, presumably a lot more than one...one that I know of absolutely for sure) one of the night managers quietly snuck in (we didn't even know she was in the store) went to the security room, and spent the night spying on us.

She at first tried to deny it; then admitted it. (So the FACT of a lie is indisputable...and WalMart, allegedly a Christian organization, is committing a direct and intentional offense against their Creator. By THEIR standards as Christians, i mean, never mind my standards.)

Of course, she felt she could justify it; it's not as if WalMart is too concerned with how outraged its employees are. It's not like they're real people, or anything.

So, that's spying; and that's deception. Again, I"m wondering if you support this.

Walmart isn't religious. People are religious. I've never seen a box store attend mass.

If the manager felt that she should watch you guys (in particular), then there was probably a reason. Maybe not you, but a reason nonetheless. People will steal from large and small stores when they can. The bigger the store, the easier it is because of the sheer size of inventory (who's gonna miss just one?). Why would people steal from Walmart? Because they see it as a viable option to paying for it. Afterall, these are the same people that are working for peanuts so they may not all be the world's "cream of the crop" employees.

You weren't a slave at Walmart, so you exercised your option to leave. Good for you.

[Mr.Canada]

Why don't you just cite your reputable source and end the argument? If you know where this proof is, you should charge a $1 billion dollar finder's fee to the group taking Walmart to court. That's only 10% of what they'll win with your concrete evidence.

Very simple. Because I like watching people try to call me a liar then I can throw it in their faces.

[bloodyminded]

Walmart isn't religious. People are religious. I've never seen a box store attend mass.

That's true; but David Cheesewright, CEO of WalMart Canada, informed employees through one of its astoundingly poorly-written bi-monthly inter-store "news" releases that part of WalMart's success can be attributed to its adhereing to "traditional values," which is a thinly-veiled code for its specifically Christian stance. The Waltons are self-professed Conservative Christians, and have always maintained that this is an important reason for their success. Jesus loves a financial winner.

If the manager felt that she should watch you guys (in particular), then there was probably a reason.

You're stating that the sky is blue. Everything everybody does is always for "a reason." That is precisely zero justification in and of itself.

Maybe not you, but a reason nonetheless. People will steal from large and small stores when they can. The bigger the store, the easier it is because of the sheer size of inventory (who's gonna miss just one?). Why would people steal from Walmart? Because they see it as a viable option to paying for it. Afterall, these are the same people that are working for peanuts so they may not all be the world's "cream of the crop" employees.

They're largely unskilled; that doesn't make them lowlifes, except to elitists, of course--like the elitist snobs who run WalMart.

Of course we all know why the company would set up a combative relationship with their employees, by spying on them, checking into their private belongings after their shifts. I don't dispute their legal right to this at all. It's merely morally repugnant.

It is an affront to dignity. The company makes a pretence that its employees (oops...I mean "associates") are all part of some egalitarian team. Funny, I know, but that's the COMPANY's pretence, not the employees.' This rises not quite to the level of informed vacuity.

Like I said, I have worked for numerous businesses, large and small, my whole life. And not a single ONE of them was so happy to belittle their employees through little humiliations.

You weren't a slave at Walmart, so you exercised your option to leave. Good for you.

No congratulations needed; I had other options and took them. Some WalMart employees don't have the same opportunities.

[Hydraboss]

Very simple. Because I like watching people try to call me a liar then I can throw it in their faces.

Then do that for a change. Come up with some credible evidence. You haven't been able to throw anything in anyone's face for as long as you've been on this board.

[segnosaur]

Why don't you just cite your reputable source and end the argument?

Very simple. Because I like watching people try to call me a liar then I can throw it in their faces.

Really?

You made the claim that Wal-mart causes small businesses to close. I posted a university study that showed that the number of small businesses has been unaffected over the past 2 decades as Wal-mart has expanded.

You made the claim that 90% of all managers were men. I posted a reference to a Forbes magazine, showing that even the most pessimistic number is nowhere near that 90%.

2 big claims made, 2 claims illustrated to be wrong through mainstream sources.

Personally, I don't think you're so much "lying" as basically ignorant of the facts, and willing to deal in rumor rather than fact. Still, the facts have been given to you.

So, lets see your magnificent references....

[segnosaur]

It might or might not be true of all retailers. But let's not forget that Wal-Mart has more dissatisfaction (and a much higher employee turnover rate) than any other major employer, by a long shot.

Quite possible... but then, it would actually be nice to see some actual proof of this.

The anti-Wal-Mart people here are real big on this... make some grand claim, but ignore something as simple as proof. In particular, I'm interested in context... are you comparing Wal-Mart with other retailers, or companies like automanufacturers?

But lets say your claim is true... So what? There are plenty of other jobs available in the country. (You can't drive down any of the major streets here in Ottawa without seeing a "now hiring" sign.) If things really were bad at Wal-mart, then enough employees would leave and they'd have to improve the work situation to maintain a functional staff.

further, I've worked in the private sector my entire life. I've had many different jobs. And not a single ONE of them ever checked my belongings on the way out the door...

Really? Gee... I know 2 different people who have worked in retail jobs (neither of which was Wal-Mart), both of whom were at least occasionally checked on their way out the door.

[segnosaur]

I think you fail to appreciate the sheer massive size of Wal-mart and its purchasing power.

Nope, not at all. Wal-mart is a big f*cking company. They purchase and sell massive quantities of products and they drive a "hard bargin" with many of their suppliers. Nothing wrong with that.

Wal-Mart's power and influence are a major cause for why everyone has to supply goods built overseas now.

Now, repeat after me... co-relation does not imply causation.

Got it? Good.

Guess what? Many products (e.g. clothing) were already manufactured abroad long before Wal-mart became a significant retail outlet.

And guess what? Even industries that wal-mart has nothing to do with (or who's influence is minimal at best) also manufacture products overseas. (Never heard of Wal-Mart selling cars, yet we still import large numbers of vehicles into this country.) Many tech support jobs have also gone overseas... is that Wal-mart's fault too?

[Mr.Canada]

Really?

You made the claim that Wal-mart causes small businesses to close. I posted a university study that showed that the number of small businesses has been unaffected over the past 2 decades as Wal-mart has expanded.

You made the claim that 90% of all managers were men. I posted a reference to a Forbes magazine, showing that even the most pessimistic number is nowhere near that 90%.

2 big claims made, 2 claims illustrated to be wrong through mainstream sources.

Personally, I don't think you're so much "lying" as basically ignorant of the facts, and willing to deal in rumor rather than fact. Still, the facts have been given to you.

So, lets see your magnificent references....

A $10 Billion lawsuit is going ahead on behalf of over a million women who say that WalMArt discriminates against women. Three levels of courts have decided to let the lawsuit go ahead and agree that WalMart has discriminatory advancement practices. So you're calling these judges liars right?

I just want to get this straight, that you believe that WalMart has completely fair practices when it comes to advancement and hiring for upper management.

[Mr.Canada]

Then do that for a change. Come up with some credible evidence. You haven't been able to throw anything in anyone's face for as long as you've been on this board.

http://www.walmartclass.com/public_home.html

Read. Happy now?

[blueblood]

http://www.walmartclass.com/public_home.html

Read. Happy now?

All I see is a class action lawsuit page with no reference to the numbers of the percentage of men/women in management. All I see there is if your a woman who worked there since 98 sign up to sue walmart.

Do you constantly like embarassing yourself?

[Mr.Canada]

All I see is a class action lawsuit page with no reference to the numbers of the percentage of men/women in management. All I see there is if your a woman who worked there since 98 sign up to sue walmart.

Do you constantly like embarassing yourself?

Are you purposely obtuse?

[Mr.Canada]

More facts for all that think WalMart is an awesome and wholesome company.

http://wakeupwalmart.com/facts/

Workers forced to work unpaid overtime.

Workers faced to not take meal breaks.

Illegal spying on union reps.

WalMart hiring illegal immigrants.

WalMart breaking child labour laws.

WalMart and its discriminatory hiring policy towards females and they consistently earn less then their male counterparts.

Lawsuit on behalf of 1.6 million women suing for equalization payments + punitive damages which will total more than $10 billion.

I could go on and on.

But this is a great company which always does things above board right guys?

[segnosaur]

A $10 Billion lawsuit is going ahead on behalf of over a million women who say that WalMArt discriminates against women.

And once again... at this point Wal-Mart has not been found guilty of anything.

You do understand the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty', do you not?

Three levels of courts have decided to let the lawsuit go ahead and agree that WalMart has discriminatory advancement practices. So you're calling these judges liars right?

I'm not calling the judges anything. They're allowing a court case to proceed, but that does not mean that Wal-mart is actually guilty.

What I am doing is calling you ignorant (as in: lacking knowledge).

You made very specific claims that Wal-mart's management was "90% male". That claim is wrong. I've posted refreences to it. I've provided proof. The fact that there's a class action lawsuit does not justify you making up numbers almost at random.

I just want to get this straight, that you believe that WalMart has completely fair practices when it comes to advancement and hiring for upper management.

I believe that most Wal-mart stores are fair in their hiring and promotion practices. I do recognize that, in any large organization, there will be bad apples. However, there is a difference between a store or two being run by incompetent idiots who screwed up (something that does need to be dealt with), and a system of systemic abuse.

Then do that for a change. Come up with some credible evidence. You haven't been able to throw anything in anyone's face for as long as you've been on this board.

http://www.walmartcl...ublic_home.html

Read. Happy now?

Ah, where to begin....

First of all, keep in mind that that link is to a website put up by lawyers involved in the class action lawsuit... These are hardly people that you can expect to report without bias. (Compare that to the references I gave... one to Forbes magazine, a fairly well respected mainstream magazine not owned by Wal-Mart, and an independent university study.) You want us to accept your claims? You should come up with a more reputable source.

Secondly, that article only points out that there is a class action lawsuit in progress, something nobody here ever denied. Once again though, the fact that a lawsuit is in progress does not mean that Wal-mart is actually guilty. On the other hand, you made very specific claims that 90% of the managers were men... nowhere on that page does it validate your statement.

Thirdly, did you actually read your own reference? At the very bottom of the page, they have a link to a Costco Class action discrimination lawsuit! (And this isn't the first lawsuit Costco has had to contend with!) If Costco (a retail company that was previously praised by some people in this thread for paying their employees so well) can run into similar legal problems, then maybe the problem isn't with Wal-mart after all.