Wal-Mart to close unionized store in Quebec

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Consumers demand local production too....they alos demand zuchinni in January...

I mean, we go to the "farmers markets" too. They have them across from the St Lawrence market on Saturdays. Sometimes even, they are cheaper than buying at loblaws...

Most of our farmers markets operate "in season", not all but most. I think there is only one year round "farmers" market in Edmonton.

[cybercoma]

Probably because you decided to bring up some useless irrelevant topic which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue that was raised, and even after this fact has been pointed out to you multiple times, you still refuse to acknowledge the subject.

Actually, keep in mind that at no point did I suggest farmer's markets were more expensive than grocery stores. What I've pointed out was that bakeries and butcher shops likely do not have the same choice of "basic" low end merchendise that is available in grocery stores. (Farmers markets may indeed sell produce cheaper than supermarkets, but the number of people who have convenient access to such produce year round is very very small.)

I can get a loaf of no-name white bread at my local grocery store pretty darn cheap. The last time I was in a bakery, I could not do that. Why? Because they specialize in higher-end goods. (There's nothing wrong with that, but it means you can't compare what you get at supermarkets and bakeries/butchers.)

You made the claim that Butchers/bakers are cheaper than supermarkets... those who make the claims are generally responsible for providing evidence.

Hey, if you want to pattern your life around the procurement of basic food, it is well within your right. But that's what you ARE doing... Some of us don't actually see having to arrange our schedules to fit in with the limited opening times of some farmer's market as a "good thing".

As for a better time/day to get your groceries, how about, oh, on your way home after work? Or Sunday afternoons? Heck, there are some 24 hour supermarkets near me... I've actually done my grocery shopping at 1am on a Saturday night. The point is, I do it when I choose. I don't have a desire to set my schedule so that I can only get my groceries on a particular day of the week because "that's when the farmer's market is open". (Heck, assuming the farmer's market actually would be open... any ones I've seen around here aren't open in the winter.)

You keep saying its a non-point because you're an idiot. The original post I was responding to said that shopping at grocery stores puts small businesses out of business the same as shopping at Walmart. Grocery stores are not cheaper than the small businesses, which is the complaint most people have about Walmart. Walmart's so-called unethical business practices revolve around supposedly inadequate wages for employees and bullying vendors to sell their products to Walmart at lower costs. Although I agree that it's part of the reason people shop there, the arguments for Walmart pushing small businesses out have little to do with convenient shopping hours and having everything under one roof.

The grocery store comparison doesn't up because the prices at local farmers markets and even local bakeries, butchers, and grocers is typically lower than the chain stores. No. I don't have the data to pull on it for you, nor am I going to spend the time looking for it. Maybe it doesn't exist, but in all seven of the cities I have lived in here in Canada (in most of the regions, save the arctic) that has been the case. Furthermore, every place I have lived has had a farmers' market where the prices were even lower still.

You're hung up on convenience and selection and you seem to think that makes my point irrelevant. It's not any more irrelevant than saying someone that shops at a chain grocer is a hypocrite if they criticize Walmart. The grocers are not taking part in the same allegedly "unethical" activities as the critics of Walmart claim Walmart is doing. Furthermore, people are actually paying more for food at the chain grocery stores, in my experience (which I couldn't care less about being anecdotal about).

Just to be clear, I don't believe Walmart is being particularly unethical, nor do I believe they put local businesses out. Instead, I think they have forced local companies to specialize and runner tighter ships, so to speak. I also believe that if you don't like the compensation package Walmart offers you as an employee, you ought to seek employment somewhere else. As for the vendors, you don't need to sell your products at Walmart if they don't compensate you well enough for those either.

Nevertheless, all I'm trying to say is that the grocery store example is like comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same situation at all. You weren't even the one that made that point, so I don't know what caused you to get sand in your vagina, but get over it. A better comparison would be someone that shops at a Home Depot or Lowes instead of the local mom and pop hardware store, but complains about Walmart putting local businesses out. Regardless, I personally believe the arguments against Walmart are unfounded.

[M.Dancer]

The grocery store comparison doesn't up because the prices at local farmers markets and even local bakeries, butchers, and grocers is typically lower than the chain stores.

Not in my experiance (where's Hardner?). In our neighbourhood we have a handful of butchers and bakers. Typically you can find cuts of meat that you can't find at the supers...and the cuts you do find at both are far far more expensive at the butchers. For example, tonight we are having prime rib bought at Metro for under $4.00 a Lbs. Ollife also sells prime rib and admittably a better quality...but their price will be around $12 a Lbs...and the neighbouring baker is famous for their $10.00 loaves of bread.

The local fish monger, where rare varieties of sea food can be had alos sells lobster...for about $2.00 more than Loblaw...

Why do people shop their instead of the cheaper venues?

One, product selection. If your taste is purple peruvian potatoes served with kangaroo alongside 32 grain olive prune toast...you can get it their.

Two is customer service. The butcher will actually talk to you and help yopu make the right selection. Even if you are only buying the $10.00 per lbs hamburger..

Three is convience. The butcher, baker, fish monger and green grocer are all side by side. On top of that, once you have decided that what your fish course will be andf whether you are serving pheasant or bison, your Range Rover is parked right next door to the largest LCBO in Ontario where the sommalier can assist you in choosing the appropriate wine pairing.

The lesson for any retailor faced with a Walmart coming into their market is this.

Don't compete with Walmart. Don't try to sell proctor silex toasters cheaper than walmart...

Do try and offer a different brands and target market segments that can be better served than at walmert. As well, be known for offering better service. Delivery (free or otherwise) installation, product knowledge will go far...

[segnosaur]

You keep saying its a non-point because you're an idiot. The original post I was responding to said that shopping at grocery stores puts small businesses out of business the same as shopping at Walmart. Grocery stores are not cheaper than the small businesses....

You know, you keep saying that, but you have not yet provided proof. Repeating a statement multiple times does not automatically make it more true. (And, from the looks of things, I'm not the only one who has doubts about that particular statement... at least one other poster has dealt with your issue of costs at grocery stores vs. butchers/bakers.

The grocery store comparison doesn't up because the prices at local farmers markets and even local bakeries, butchers, and grocers is typically lower than the chain stores. No. I don't have the data to pull on it for you, nor am I going to spend the time looking for it. Maybe it doesn't exist...

You know, that really should be the end of your argument there.... Maybe it doesn't exist because, well, it really doesn't exist.

You're hung up on convenience and selection and you seem to think that makes my point irrelevant.

I am not "hung up" on convenience/selection. I think its an important issue, but not the only one.

It's not any more irrelevant than saying someone that shops at a chain grocer is a hypocrite if they criticize Walmart. The grocers are not taking part in the same allegedly "unethical" activities as the critics of Walmart claim Walmart is doing.

Well, one of the supposedly "unethical" activities of Wal-mart is having stuff supplied from China. Yet many grocery stores also get their products from the same suppliers that Wal-mart does. (Remember the pet-foot recall from a few years ago? Grocery stores were hit by the problems too.)

So yes, grocery stores are taking part in at least some of the "supposedly" unethical practices of wal-mart.

Furthermore, people are actually paying more for food at the chain grocery stores, in my experience (which I couldn't care less about being anecdotal about).

To be honest, I wouldn't even consider what you've given as even an "anecdote". Its a very vague, unsupported claim. You haven't given any indication of exactly what products you're talking about, what the actual price difference was, etc.

Nevertheless, all I'm trying to say is that the grocery store example is like comparing apples to oranges. They're not the same situation at all.

Of course, that's assuming you accept vague, unsupported claims as "proof". Not all of us are so easily convinced.

A better comparison would be someone that shops at a Home Depot or Lowes instead of the local mom and pop hardware store, but complains about Walmart putting local businesses out. Regardless, I personally believe the arguments against Walmart are unfounded.

Ya know, you could have made that clear a bit earlier in the thread.

[cybercoma]

Ya know, you could have made that clear a bit earlier in the thread.

I just didn't care to get into that point. I was just trying to say the grocery example was inadequate.

[blueblood]

WHY did the hick that started Walmart want to grow so big with out any real purpose to expansion? I met a farmer who sold his land off to walmart - a real eccentric guy who imagined himself as an artist or something - He drove a rusty old car and sent second hand books to some third world country - a cheap old man...but with the selling of his land he escalated the destruction of the culture and buisness of the small town he liked to visit and show his really bad un-original paintings... walmart reminds me of wealth with no purpose - You don't have to be smart to be rich.

Oh those dern rednecks done made some of that there fancy money!