White South African Farmer Plight.

[Bonam]

1 hour ago, scribblet said:

Would Russia be better -A delegation of 30 South African farming families has arrived in Russia’s farmbelt Stavropol Region, Rossiya 1 TV reports. The group says it is facing violent attacks and death threats at home.  http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/248587

 

I'd take Russia over South Africa any day. 

[cannuck]

My black friends (all American, and totally isolated from RSA today except for what they get in the media) claim that such claims of white rape and slaughter are being posted by white supremacist groups.  My buddy's brother - a retired policeman living in Empangeni - points out to me that while there seem to be a fair number of white farmers being attacked and murdered, the official government record shows that it is simply not happening - and it is.  Well, now that I was confused, I decided to ask a South African friend who recently emigrated to the UK.   I had never discussed this with her before, but when I asked, her tone of voice changed dramatically and she told me of the three violent invasions of their family farm (by blacks) that in the last murdered her Mother's boyfriend and attempted to attack and kidnap her (other family members intervened).  The police did nothing, crimes didn't happen.  They decided it was time to go (two years ago) and to this time, 6 of her family and 7 more of her close friends are dead from many of these farm attacks that didn't happen.   Now, 19 a year, and she alone can personally account for 14 of them?   You REALLY think 19 is in any way representative and accurate>??????

[Bonam]

20 minutes ago, cannuck said:

My black friends (all American, and totally isolated from RSA today except for what they get in the media) claim that such claims of white rape and slaughter are being posted by white supremacist groups.  My buddy's brother - a retired policeman living in Empangeni - points out to me that while there seem to be a fair number of white farmers being attacked and murdered, the official government record shows that it is simply not happening - and it is.  Well, now that I was confused, I decided to ask a South African friend who recently emigrated to the UK.   I had never discussed this with her before, but when I asked, her tone of voice changed dramatically and she told me of the three violent invasions of their family farm (by blacks) that in the last murdered her Mother's boyfriend and attempted to attack and kidnap her (other family members intervened).  The police did nothing, crimes didn't happen.  They decided it was time to go (two years ago) and to this time, 6 of her family and 7 more of her close friends are dead from many of these farm attacks that didn't happen.   Now, 19 a year, and she alone can personally account for 14 of them?   You REALLY think 19 is in any way representative and accurate>??????

I have a South African acquaintance as well and his family left for similar reasons. While none of them were killed, they were the victims of several violent attacks. The people pointing at official SA government statistics and saying "see, everything is fine" are clearly missing the point. Regimes that are trying to eradicate or push out a minority group rarely publicly document their crimes for the world to see. 

[h102]

On 9/8/2018 at 4:29 PM, taxme said:

Well spoken like a true leftist liberal. If white people are being murdered, well then too bad and so what. You do need to go on the internet and check out the stats as to how many white people are being murdered every year in South Africa. The internet will tell you all about it. In Toronto most of the killings are being done by Jamaican drug dealers shooting and killing other Jamaican drug dealers. What is going on in Toronto cannot be compared or come close in anyway to what is going on in South Africa. 

This comment is filled with a great deal of misinformation.  Toronto is one of the safer cities in Canada by per capita homicide rate. I already checked the number of how many whites are murdered in SA, its very low, lower than the number of whites murdered per capita in Canada, actually 50% lower.

[h102]

On 9/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, scribblet said:

According to this report it's happening   http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-31/south-african-farm-murders/10013298

There is an irony, because I read several Aussie papers at the time, and it seems that right wing extremist in aussie want to latch onto this like Fox news, to push their own agendas.  That being said, when I read the left wing paper in Aussie, the comment sections basically all said they had negative encounters with white Saffers and that they destroyed their community and that since the blacks were living with them, they probably know them better and there must be a reason for what's going on over there.

 

You also seemed to miss the obvious fake that the newspaper seemed to be mocking the genocide claim because they put it in quotes, which is what you do when you don't believe someone claim like yeah right sure white "genocide" sure, yeah.  Even your own article refutes your claim

"The country's largest commercial farmers union, Agri SA, announced recently that there were only 47 farm murders in the past 12 months — the lowest figure for 19 years."

And not all farm murders are of white people, almost half of them are black farm workers killed by white farm land owners or sometimes even other blacks!  And of the whites murdered on the farm, guess what, alot of them are also white people, killing other white people like you see on shows like dateline, 20/20, fear thy neighbour, etc. Many of them are like Oscar Pistorius, a man killing his wife because he is jealous or a child killing parents for money, etc.

READ YOUR OWN ARTICLE:

"To classify farm attacks as genocide is utter nonsense. There's absolutely no evidence of that, it's fearmongering."

"Under apartheid, in most of the country, blacks were not allowed to own land. They were crowded into townships where they rented shacks, or into overcrowded and impoverished "Bantustans"."

"The country can't afford any longer to pay white farmers market price for land, the ANC's Ronald Lemola explains: "And anyway, historically, the land was dispossessed by violence. It's not like they paid for the land."

 

SORRY THAT is just wrong.  Even in Canada they at least tried to sign treaties with the Indians and pay them something, and I don't recall Indians being banned from buying land off reserves into the 1990s.  When you make your policies so extreme, most reasonable people would realize it is going to backfire on you, all they did in trying to be greedy and take all the land was make a large class of angry, landless people who now have nothing to lose in getting back their land.

On 9/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, scribblet said:

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/watch-black-south-african-radicals-chant-all-white-men-must-die/

Just a few crazies, they have them everywhere. Means nothing, they have no power, you could see in the film the black people were more annoyed by their antics than anyone else, the black cop ended up arrestting half of them.

 

On 9/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, scribblet said:

If they go ahead with seizing farm land without compensation they could end up with no economy as in Zimbabwe, but it could be the start of it now.

Shocking drop in agriculture behind 'surprise' recession  Agriculture fell almost 30%, dragging the GDP number down

SA is not an agra economy like Zimbabwe was 30 years ago.  AGra is just 2% of SA economy. Even if the entire sector collapsed, it would not harm SA in a noticeable way. SA has been in a drought the entire year, so agra production fell in the summer months due to no rain, this is why cape town almost ran out of water.  On top of that, it is now winter in SA, and its agra areas are now blanketed in snow. Those are elephants in the snow in SA in august/september.  Can you grow food in the snow?

 

On 9/8/2018 at 7:58 PM, scribblet said:

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/economy/2018-09-04-cyril-ramaphosa-has-a-recession-on-his-hands/

Would Russia be better -A delegation of 30 South African farming families has arrived in Russia’s farmbelt Stavropol Region, Rossiya 1 TV reports. The group says it is facing violent attacks and death threats at home.  http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/248587

 

This does start to make me think those leftist in Australia had a good point. He said a white saffer moved in and they basically acted like trash and destroyed the neighbourhood and use to brag about all the Africans he use to kill and he never felt safe living near them.  If these guys are having problems in Russia, problems in Australia, problems in South africa, problems in Zimbabwe, Congo, Angola, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia and Malawi maybe the problem isn't everyone else, maybe the problem is many white Saffers.  If a guy got kicked out and attacked in every bar out of 50 bars would you say all the bars are bad, or would you assume the guy must be an a-hole who deserved it?  Most people would think he deserved it.

[h102]

On 9/9/2018 at 12:21 AM, cannuck said:

My black friends (all American, and totally isolated from RSA today except for what they get in the media) claim that such claims of white rape and slaughter are being posted by white supremacist groups.  My buddy's brother - a retired policeman living in Empangeni - points out to me that while there seem to be a fair number of white farmers being attacked and murdered, the official government record shows that it is simply not happening - and it is.  Well, now that I was confused, I decided to ask a South African friend who recently emigrated to the UK.   I had never discussed this with her before, but when I asked, her tone of voice changed dramatically and she told me of the three violent invasions of their family farm (by blacks) that in the last murdered her Mother's boyfriend and attempted to attack and kidnap her (other family members intervened).  The police did nothing, crimes didn't happen.  They decided it was time to go (two years ago) and to this time, 6 of her family and 7 more of her close friends are dead from many of these farm attacks that didn't happen.   Now, 19 a year, and she alone can personally account for 14 of them?   You REALLY think 19 is in any way representative and accurate>??????

Or she was a 19 year old an you know, doing what kids of that age do, LIE. You really think a group of men could be strong enough to kill a man but be so weak to be unable to kidnap her?  And they killed her mother's boyfriend, but left behind two witnesses in her and her mother? Where is the detail about going to the police station, no description of the suspects other than they were black, well good luck finding that in Africa.  That is like being a victim of a crime in Iowa and saying the suspect was white. O well I am sure they will go pick up the one white guy in town.

The story is not believable.

Plus even if her individual story is true, it doesn't change the data, it doesn't change the statistics, it doesn't change the facts. Whites being killed or attacked is very rare on farms.

[h102]

On 9/9/2018 at 12:45 AM, Bonam said:

I have a South African acquaintance as well and his family left for similar reasons. While none of them were killed, they were the victims of several violent attacks. The people pointing at official SA government statistics and saying "see, everything is fine" are clearly missing the point. Regimes that are trying to eradicate or push out a minority group rarely publicly document their crimes for the world to see. 

The issue is this.  The whites are murdered at a lower rate in SA on farms than whites in Canada.  Its not believable based on the data, not even the data collected by white farmers union AgraSA, so it is not just government data.  And this assumes all land owners are white of course (farmers) and that none of the farm attacks are on black despite we know they are.  It also ignores the hostile relations between farmers and the workers and people not being paid or ripped off and that being the main reason behind the murders, not race. Then add on the fact we are talking a high crime country, with many homicides, we realize whites are not persecuted in SA, but actually, highly privileged, they are far less likely to be killed than the average SA, as in even if the homicide rate for white farmers increased 10 times, it would still be lower than that of blacks.  And there is much more public documentation of whites being murdered as most whites have access to a phone and internet to ge ttheir story out where most black saffers do not.  When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

[DogOnPorch]

The ANC are the REAL victims here.

[SpankyMcFarland]

South Africa is a dangerous place for everybody these days. White farmers are part of that reality. 

[scribblet]

https://www.newsweek.com/white-farmer-killed-every-five-days-south-africa-authorities-do-nothing-851470

Thought I'd put this here, check out this video of a woman fighting back against thugs with guns in South Africa; good thinking on her part, not sure I'd have the wits to do that myself, but will remember it.  
https://m.news24.com/Video/SouthAfrica/News/watch-im-no-hero-alberton-woman-who-rammed-her-car-into-armed-hijackers-in-her-driveway-20180907

[scribblet]

Not looking good https://www.scmp.com/news/world/africa/article/2163776/s-africa-close-war-zone-57-murders-day-says-minister

 

[cannuck]

On 9/10/2018 at 6:54 AM, h102 said:

Or she was a 19 year old an you know, doing what kids of that age do, LIE. You really think a group of men could be strong enough to kill a man but be so weak to be unable to kidnap her?  And they killed her mother's boyfriend, but left behind two witnesses in her and her mother? Where is the detail about going to the police station, no description of the suspects other than they were black, well good luck finding that in Africa.  That is like being a victim of a crime in Iowa and saying the suspect was white. O well I am sure they will go pick up the one white guy in town.

The story is not believable.

Plus even if her individual story is true, it doesn't change the data, it doesn't change the statistics, it doesn't change the facts. Whites being killed or attacked is very rare on farms.

Right.  All kids lie.   Everything they say is not true.  (BTW: that "kid" is a surgical resident - yeah can't trust them, can we?)

She was there, you were not, but YOU know exactly what happened.

Yeah, sub-Saharan African governments alway report the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You feeble efforts to deflect are pathetic.

Edited September 12, 2018 by cannuck

[Bonam]

3 hours ago, cannuck said:

Right.  All kids lie.   Everything they say is not true.  (BTW: that "kid" is a surgical resident - yeah can't trust them, can we?)

She was there, you were not, but YOU know exactly what happened.

Yeah, sub-Saharan African governments alway report the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You feeble efforts to deflect are pathetic.

The extent to which people here want to cover up and dismiss the atrocities going on in South Africa really calls into question their motivations. 

[h102]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:41 AM, cannuck said:

Right.  All kids lie.   Everything they say is not true.  (BTW: that "kid" is a surgical resident - yeah can't trust them, can we?)

She was there, you were not, but YOU know exactly what happened.

Yeah, sub-Saharan African governments alway report the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

You feeble efforts to deflect are pathetic.

All children do lie.  Never met a 100% honest child, they make up the most lies.

So the entire government is lying, the private farmer organizations like AgraSA are lying, everyone in SA is just one big liar, and she is a special exception?  You see nothing wrong with this?

[h102]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:04 PM, Bonam said:

The extent to which people here want to cover up and dismiss the atrocities going on in South Africa really calls into question their motivations. 

There are real bad things going on down there, like so many people being murdered every day.  But isn't every murder an atrocity.  I think all of the 19,000 murders a year are one, not just ones where white land barons are killed by the serfs they don't pay.