What can Canada learn from the Brexit Referendum if we ever leave NAFTA?

[Machjo]

3 minutes ago, taxme said:

In reality the Eu was setup as part of the new world order, the one world government where the globalist bankster elite would totally control all industry and markets and we the people. They are an unelected body that has total control and power to force any country in the EU to have to abide by their globalist elite rules or pay a penalty of fine or be sanctioned. The EU ruling elite is a dictatorship. The EU serves no other purpose other than being a part of a globalist corporation organization designed and set up to run and rule the world and control the economy of nations and rule over their people as far as I am concerned. 

That''s wonderful and a good reason to leave the EU. My point was that the wording of the referendum gave no indication of what to replace it with.

 

If it were up to me, I'd choose unilateral free trade. However, the referendum result gives no indication of what the people want other than to leave the EU for... for... well, for something or other anyway.

[taxme]

6 hours ago, objectivist said:

The problem with the EU is that it is a bureaucratic dictatorship with very little accountability to the average man and woman on the street. Canada and the US are also bureaucratic dictatorships, with slightly fewer bureaucrats per capita. The problem with bureaucracy is that it governs in its own interest, and not in that of the producers of society. If you want to learn more about this phenomenon, read up on Social Choice Theory. It is an exact science, and every Canadian intuitively knows that "they are only in it for themselves". Social Choice Theory is correct. Socialism and bureaucracy are incorrect. Politicians spend money on the basis of the next election. Not because it is economically efficient. This should be outlawed.

In Canada, taxes are double what they should be, because of bureaucracy. The more bureaucrats per thousand people, the higher the taxes, and the poorer your state becomes. Quebec is a perfect example of this. The highest taxes in North America, constant leeching off of the rest of Canada, and only 1 US state is poorer, which is Mississippi. Considering the territory, resources, and education of the Quebec people, this is completely ridiculous. Quebec should be pitching in, not taking out. In that case, all of Canada would prosper even more.

And I am in Quebec, living by my own means. The basic problem of Quebec is that unions think they own the place. I have always hated unions. They pay lazy people the same as hard workers, and then the hard workers unconsciously say "Who is John Galt?" and become lazy themselves.

As Jordan B. Peterson points out, when you put good disadvantaged kids with bad disadvantaged kids, the good kids become bad. Still, I find Peterson very lukewarm compared to pure Objectivism. A step in the right direction, but you do not criticize Ayn Rand for literary style. Anyone can do that! You learn Objectivism and make it your life's philosophy. Otherwise you are a mewling socialist, whether you call yourself a Conservative or not.

Unilateral free trade worked brilliantly for Britain in 1851. It is widely argued this led to the Victorian boom which lasted until the 1920s. Living standards rose greatly. Many new technologies were invented. It may sound counterintuitive, but we have been brainwashed by collectivism and communism, which can even be found in the Conservative Party of Canada as it supports supply management (in Quebec, of course.) Trump says our supply management is killing US farmers, but it is also killing poor people in Canada as well, who bear the burden of this supply management monopoly the worst. Unintentionally or not, Trump is a friend of poor people in Canada, which is why many poor people in Canada are wearing MAGA hats, despite what snowflake SJW extreme-leftist victim groups want.

What happens with unilateral free trade is that cheap goods will flood the Canadian market, raising Canadian living standards, and forcing Canadian companies to be more efficient to compete. This is why I like what Trump is doing. There is no way we can beat Trump at his game, however we can up our own game and let the chips fall as they may. Trump is forcing us to act like adults, instead of complacent government-dependent socialist collectivist communist babies. 

The problem for all of these foreign suppliers in unilateral free trade, then, is that they are now stuck with Canadian dollars. I tried to explain this to the PC Party in 1987, but they were having none of it. There is only one place you can spend Canadian dollars. And that is in Canada.

Because our companies have somehow become more competitive (to compete with the flood of foreign goods), they are now able to supply all these foreigners with the goods and services we can supply. All and all, we still have a $2 trillion market, and that is something people all over the world will want a piece of. New technologies get invented, supply goes up, demand goes up, investment comes flooding in, and wages rise on the basis of hard work and not unions.

In the current trade dispute with Donald Trump, by taxing on a 1-for-1 basis in "retaliation" to US actions, our extreme-left Liberal government is punishing Canadian consumers TEN TIMES AS MUCH PER CAPITA. Can you people get this into your thick skulls? The US action was an attempt to lower Canadian economic activity. The response should not be to lower it even more. Canada should have LOWERED tariffs, LOWERED corporate taxes, and LOWERED GST, while firing thousands of useless bureaucrats. 

To make matters even worse than that, now the extreme-left Liberal government is planning to subsidise these steel and aluminum producers to the tune of $800 million, which could have easily been spent on severance packages for bureaucrats.

Oh, and guess where the aluminum producers are. Quebec. What the extreme-left Liberal government does not want to understand is that every time they interfere in the normal course of business in Quebec, they are taking away opportunity from the Quebec people. The people in Alberta are exactly right to complain about transfer payments always going to Quebec. It should be extremely embarrassing to be leeches like this. Every government handout makes it more difficult for the Quebec people to succeed. 

If we need to fire more bureaucrats, we simply abrogate their union contracts using the notwithstanding clause. If they resist, we bring in troops, police, replacement workers and AI software. Our freedoms are more important than their so-called collective rights. If there are agitators who are trying to foment socialist revolution, we put them in jail for treason. There is no compromise with Marxism.

It is really sad that after all these years, I was able to get the nickname 'objectivist' on this site. Please learn Objectivism. It is the only pure capitalist philosophy. Please stop defining yourself on the political spectrum with left-wing Marxist murderers and looters. It is either right or wrong, and that is all we need to know. Socialism has murdered tens of millions of people, and there should be no compromise with socialism at all.

Do you think it would ever happen, say once in a billion years, when a Canadian would say, "No, Ms. Government, I do not WANT your free stuff?"

NULLUM GRATUITUM PRANDIUM.

What you have said here makes so much common sense and logic that some of our socialist/liberal members here may just blow a few dozen brain fuses as a result of it. Your political incorrectness talk may get you in trouble here with some of them. If there was at least 60% - 70% of the Canadian people who could think like you Canada would be a lot better place to live in. Unfortunately, for people like you and me, the majority of Canadians have the attitude that it is all about me-me and more me. Who cares about the other guy/gal. They appear to just not give a dam at all about anything but themselves. I suppose we could blame that on the fact that the people have allowed themselves to be dumb downed for decades by our politically correct puppet on a string politicians that they cannot hardly think for themselves anymore. They have allowed our dear leaders and the left wing lame stream liberal media do the thinking for them. I see that here all the time. 

All I can say and hope for is that one day Canada will get a Trump like person to lead this country into a great and prosperous nation rather than a socialist liberal communist nation full of bureaucrats and politicians who have no interest in Canada or Canadians. Their only concern is for more power and more control of we the people. 

I would like to have someone come forward and try to make Canada great again. As long as we are allowing ourselves to be forced to live in a liberal/socialist country Canada will always be behind the eight ball. This country could be one great fantastic wealthy nation for all if our politically correct minded politicians would just mind their own dam business. A country like Canada will never do well when it's people are over governed, over taxed and over regulated and have less freedom. That is my take on it all. Works for me. 

[taxme]

36 minutes ago, Machjo said:

That''s wonderful and a good reason to leave the EU. My point was that the wording of the referendum gave no indication of what to replace it with.

 

If it were up to me, I'd choose unilateral free trade. However, the referendum result gives no indication of what the people want other than to leave the EU for... for... well, for something or other anyway.

Maybe try and leave it up to we the people to decide for a change and not to the globalist elite, globalist corporations, special interest groups, politically correct politicians and the left wing liberal media anymore. They are of no help at all. They are more of a hindrance. We all should know that by now and they have shown us that they are not able to solve a problem but are great at creating more problems. Our politicians truly do live in a weird world of their own and the rest of us are all on the outside looking in. That picture needs a touch up. 

[objectivist]

We would not need a referendum on unilateral Free Trade. An Objectivist government would just drop all tariffs to zero.

[Machjo]

16 minutes ago, objectivist said:

We would not need a referendum on unilateral Free Trade. An Objectivist government would just drop all tariffs to zero.

And lobbyists for protected industries would just sit there and watch?

 

A referendum would strengthen the government's hand against the lobbyists. If the government won a referendum with the majority of the population voting for unilateral free trade, it would then make it much harder for an MP to be influenced by a lobbyist.

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, objectivist said:

Please stop defining yourself on the political spectrum with left-wing Marxist murderers and looters.

Excuse me but its conservatives who identify lefties with mass murderers and looters - a ridiculously brainless propensity that makes conservatives sound like the stupidest people on Earth and as a consequence the most easily distracted.

You should stop with your first sentence and contemplate it more deeply;

 

Quote

The problem with the EU is that it is a bureaucratic dictatorship with very little accountability to the average man and woman on the street.

Accountability and the lack thereof is the biggest most ancient problem faced by virtually our entire species. Every system is doomed without it and capitalism is no exception.

[edmons]

On 7/5/2018 at 12:49 AM, objectivist said:

We would not need a referendum on unilateral Free Trade. An Objecitvist government would just drop all tariffs to zero.

My thoughts exactly!

Edited July 12, 2018 by edmons

[SpankyMcFarland]

Here’s Mrs. Thatcher in a 1975 parliamentary debate (from 305 down) describing the problems referendums pose for the British political system: 

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1975/mar/11/eec-membership-referendum

Very few pro-Brexit politicians appear to have understood the complexity of, and potential snags in, their proposal. Two years later, the Conservatives still can’t agree on what sort of Brexit they want and they misunderstand the other side as well. The EU cannot simply give them what they want. A crash-out looks increasingly likely. 

 

 

 

[Machjo]

30 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Here’s Mrs. Thatcher in a 1975 parliamentary debate (from 305 down) describing the problems referendums pose for the British political system: 

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1975/mar/11/eec-membership-referendum

Very few pro-Brexit politicians appear to have understood the complexity of, and potential snags in, their proposal. Two years later, the Conservatives still can’t agree on what sort of Brexit they want and they misunderstand the other side as well. The EU cannot simply give them what they want. A crash-out looks increasingly likely. 

 

 

 

There are many complexities. Even if the referendum had been between remaining in the EU or unilateral free trade (among many other possibilities), that would still leave ambiguity about the time frame. Let's say it was a referendum between remaining in the EU or adopting unilateral free trade within the next seventy years (so as to give the British government the flexibility necessary to leave the EU in incremental stages), maybe that would be precise enough to make the referendum clear enough to move forward on a more united front.