Horwath, NDP: "Donate a little bit more taxes....."

[betsy]

6 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

What are you going on about now? Your immediate assumption is "the rich don't pay taxes". Well, actually, those who make >$50K a year pay 88.4% of all income taxes (in Ontario). Your immediate assumption that the rich are tax evaders is insulting, because you wouldn't have money to spend on your little pet projects if we didn't pony up. Yes, there are folks who bury their money in Panama and wherever else but they are the exception, not the norm.

I have no issues with full said cost-accounting and monitoring programs because if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be scared of.

He doesn't know what he's on about.

Who does he think help pay for all the welfare cheques, and all the freebie programs that we have..........if not the rich? 

 

Socialists hate the very ones who make it possible for them to be "nurtured."

Edited May 29, 2018 by betsy

[angrypenguin]

9 minutes ago, betsy said:

Socialists hate the very ones who make it possible for them to be "nurtured."

OMG. I love this. Quote of the day!!

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

OMG. I love this. Quote of the day!!

You are lauding someone who says "all mainstream polls are not credible". This is the epitome of the subjective, self-interested and vain voter who only believes polls when they support their narcissism.  Thinking people of right and left BELIEVE in science and statistics and do not accept conspiracy theories.  They work together for evidence-based best-of-breed solutions to common problems.

When it comes to morality, matters of the heart, and helping people they work together to provide a baseline of social legislation which is acceptable to the majority and they do not hector and scold those who would spend one penny less.

[angrypenguin]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are lauding someone who says "all mainstream polls are not credible". This is the epitome of the subjective, self-interested and vain voter who only believes polls when they support their narcissism.  Thinking people of right and left BELIEVE in science and statistics and do not accept conspiracy theories.  They work together for evidence-based best-of-breed solutions to common problems.

When it comes to morality, matters of the heart, and helping people they work together to provide a baseline of social legislation which is acceptable to the majority and they do not hector and scold those who would spend one penny less.

No, I am lauding someone who made a about socialists which summed up my thoughts. That said, my view on polls is different. I don't believe in any polls that clearly do not fit the line of best fit, but if the polls indicate that a party I do not support is winning, then well, the data is what it is, and my view is that I can hope on election day that things turn out in my favour, but if it doesn't, there's no point in arguing in data. Data is black and white, period.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, angrypenguin said:

1)  I am lauding someone who made a about socialists which summed up my thoughts.

2)  I don't believe in any polls that clearly do not fit the line of best fit, but if the polls indicate that a party I do not support is winning, then well, the data is what it is, and my view is that I can hope on election day that things turn out in my favour...

1) I suppose a stopped clock is correct twice a day anyway

2) Wise

[betsy]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are lauding someone who says "all mainstream polls are not credible".

......and I gave what the mainstream polls predicted about Clinton winning in the USA.  You can't simply take the word of mainstream polls these days.  

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, angrypenguin said:

Data is black and white, period.

Interpreting the data is the tricky part. The poll shows that even if Horwath has the lead in the poll result, Doug Ford is still likely the winner by about 7:1. And that is for majority government.

The big change in numbers seems to have "flattened out" now, so presumably this was an adjustment, probably not any fault of Doug Ford. Doug Ford has not made any serious gaffs thus far. No embarrassing videos, no skeletons in the closet, and no Stormy Daniels have as yet been forthcoming. (And you better believe they're looking!)

Anyway the poll data shows she is not in the lead. Unless you only look at only the data. But, the poll does make assumptions about the data, in this case, how it is distributed among ridings, and by that it defines the probability of the winning result. A probability is not certainty...

[angrypenguin]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

Interpreting the data is the tricky part. The poll shows that even if Horwath has the lead in the poll result, Doug Ford is still likely the winner by about 7:1. And that is for majority government.

The big change in numbers seems to have "flattened out" now, so presumably this was an adjustment, probably not any fault of Doug Ford. Doug Ford has not made any serious gaffs thus far. No embarrassing videos, no skeletons in the closet, and no Stormy Daniels have as yet been forthcoming. (And you better believe they're looking!)

Anyway the poll data shows she is not in the lead. Unless you only look at only the data. But, the poll does make assumptions about the data, in this case, how it is distributed among ridings, and by that it defines the probability of the winning result. A probability is not certainty...

I don't think you and I are talking about the same thing.

The data, as presented by each individual poll, is black and white. You are referencing "outcomes", and that is not driven just by data, but looking beyond data and making assumptions to then indicate what an outcome may be and the probability of said outcome.

 

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, angrypenguin said:

I don't think you and I are talking about the same thing.

The data, as presented by each individual poll, is black and white. You are referencing "outcomes", and that is not driven just by data, but looking beyond data and making assumptions to then indicate what an outcome may be and the probability of said outcome.

 

Yes we are talking about the same thing. I'm saying the data must be interpreted otherwise it is misleading, especially within the political sphere. The popular vote is not always the most democratic, hence the electoral system is more complex than a simplified interpretation of the data provides- "Horwath is in the lead".

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Interpreting the data is the tricky part.

We "receive" the data through media, and all media is a biased interpretation of some sort. 

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

We "receive" the data through media, and all media is a biased interpretation of some sort. 

Data is raw numbers.  You can ignore the interpretation and look at the raw numbers.

While one can interpret the reasons behind Doug's plummet, or even call it "plummet" vs "reduction in support" one can't deny the data.  It's black and white.

[OftenWrong]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Data is raw numbers.  You can ignore the interpretation and look at the raw numbers.

While one can interpret the reasons behind Doug's plummet, or even call it "plummet" vs "reduction in support" one can't deny the data.  It's black and white.

That's fine, the data is objective information but we cannot "deny" anything about it, unless we know first what it is we're denying. The data requires interpretation, otherwise it is just a set of numbers. Yes, you can objectively look at the raw numbers, as a pure mathematician may do.

This is one (1), this is two (2)... do those numbers look ok?

[angrypenguin]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Data is raw numbers.  You can ignore the interpretation and look at the raw numbers.

While one can interpret the reasons behind Doug's plummet, or even call it "plummet" vs "reduction in support" one can't deny the data.  It's black and white.

Yes, perhaps I should have clarified. I'm staring at two things when it comes to polls.

1) Data points (datapoints!)

2) Interpretation from a polling agency based on the results gleaned.

Therefore, I hate it when media companies say "Doug Ford is in the lead". Well no, that's not a fact. "According to polling data on May 27th, 2018, Ipsos ran a poll and based on the information they received, it would suggest that Doug Ford is projected to get 68 seats and thus the PC is suggested to win a majority government". -that's a fact/accurate statement.

Unfortunately people butcher facts and it gets spun a thousand million ways, and it pisses me the fuck off. People need to be more accurate in their statements, but unfortunately people are dumb and aren't specific enough with their words. And that's fine, but I would expect/hope our media still knows how to write.

Edited May 29, 2018 by angrypenguin

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

That's fine, the data is objective information but we cannot "deny" anything about it, unless we know first what it is we're denying.  

Ok.  The framing around the survey (ie. methodology, content of the survey, non-response rate etc.) is indeed part of the result - you're right.  But once you know that,  then the survey results can't be seen as subjective.  It's either valid or invalid, and invalidity is based on hard factors.

It's too easy for people with no clue to claim "fake poll" without any knowledge of what that means.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, angrypenguin said:

  People need to be more accurate in their statements, but unfortunately people are dumb and aren't specific enough with their words. And that's fine, but I would expect/hope our media still knows how to write.

Agreed.  The media may be getting better, though, under scrutiny.

[betsy]

Something's seriously wrong with the NDP when they have a Cop-hater  (thanks to Capricorn for this info)........

 

 

Quote

 

Star NDP candidate carried 'F--- the police' protest sign

 

 

 

http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/warmington-star-ndp-candidate-carried-f-the-police-protest-sign

 

 

.......and a veteran-basher.

 

 

Quote

 

NDP candidate sparks outrage with poppy remark

“No one brainwashed me or the millions of other Canadians who proudly wear poppies in memory of the brave men and women of the Canadian Forces, past and present, who sacrificed their lives and their safety in the cause of freedom,” said the legendary former police chief on Victoria Day.

Of course, he was referring to the Mississauga Centre NDP candidate’s previous posts where she wrote: “I just wear my peace button on my jacket as always and wait for the collective brainwashing to blow over” and “when our masters give the signal, everyone can take off the fake poppy — made with prison labour — and create a bit more landfill. And another annual ritual of war glorification comes to a close.”

 

http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/warmington-ndp-candidate-sparks-outrage-with-poppy-remark

 

 

 

Of course, veterans fought Hitler's army...........and Hitler is the poster boy of another NDP MP!  

 

Quote

Tasleem Riaz, Ontario NDP Candidate, Under Fire For Hitler Meme On Facebook

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/25/tasleem-riaz-ontario-ndp-hitler-meme_a_23443623/

 

Don't forget - they're SOCIALISTS!    They all jive.

 

I wonder if they're goose-stepping when they do their caucus meeting.......

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by betsy

[capricorn]

Quote

Ontario NDP Leader Andrea Horwath is defending a candidate who was previously arrested for trespassing by saying sometimes people take "radical" actions to effect change.

Horwath was asked today about University-Rosedale candidate Jessica Bell, who was arrested as part of a protest over mercury contamination affecting the Grassy Narrows First Nation.

Horwath says that "people sometimes do quote-unquote radical things to get the attention of decision makers."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/horwath-defends-activist-candidates-says-people-do-radical-things-for-change-1.3953410

So, Horwath thinks it's OK to break the law to make a point and to advance your agenda. I now know why one of her candidates has disdain for the cops. Great.

[angrypenguin]

3 minutes ago, capricorn said:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/horwath-defends-activist-candidates-says-people-do-radical-things-for-change-1.3953410

So, Horwath thinks it's OK to break the law to make a point and to advance your agenda. I now know why one of her candidates has disdain for the cops. Great.

Horvath is basically also saying the same thing for that Hitler supporting NDP bitch.

There is a line between black and white, and it's called grey. Then there is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outside the line. I'm surprised Horvath hasn't fired their sorry asses.

[capricorn]

14 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

I'm surprised Horvath hasn't fired their sorry asses.

Candidate nominations closed a couple of weeks age so too late to replace them on the ballot. If she boots them those ridings would not have a NDP candidate. The only other reason I can think of is that she approves of the actions of those candidates.

Edited May 31, 2018 by capricorn

[angrypenguin]

[capricorn]

That is disgusting on so many levels. The red colour leaking from the poppy is symbolic of our soldiers bleeding and dying on the battlefield. I'm livid.

Edited May 31, 2018 by capricorn

[Argus]

16 minutes ago, capricorn said:

That is disgusting on so many levels. The red colour leaking from the poppy is symbolic of our soldiers bleeding and dying on the battlefield. I'm livid.

But it's typical of the far left. And unlike the far Right, which is shunned by the Conservatives, the far Left is embraced by the NDP. I've spoken of that before. Marxists, Communists and others of their ilk are respected members of academia, unions, artistic groups and of course, politics. 

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

... far Right, which is shunned by the Conservatives, 

Wow.  It's like The Rebel never existed...

 

[angrypenguin]

58 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Wow.  It's like The Rebel never existed...

 

Sorry, I have no knowledge of what The Rebel is. Far right newspaper or something?

[angrypenguin]

Ouch.

 

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, angrypenguin said:

Sorry, I have no knowledge of what The Rebel is. Far right newspaper or something?

They're an inflammatory Canadian blog.  They aren't far-right per sé but give shelter to people who say racist and anti-semitic things.  I get my right-wing news from the MSM like the National Post.