Trudeau and the lost nation

[Argus]

I'm not sure if this belongs here or not. It certainly involves politics. But more than that involves culture and society. It was provoked by Trudeau appearing on TV this morning. I despise Trudeau, so I turned the channel, and watched and interview on MSNBC with Jonah Goldberg on his book Suicide of the West. A lot of what he spoke of crystallized a lot of what I've been thinking – and is even related to the loserboy who ran down those people on the street the other day.

There are a lot of lost boys in the West. We are, by nature, a social, tribal people. It's in our instincts, in our genes. We need to be a part of something greater than us. We need something to give meaning to our lives. If it's not our tribe then it's our God. But what happens when God is gone and spirituality has disappeared? When the Soviets tried to get rid of religion they substituted the state as an object of veneration and worship. We're getting rid of religion but what do we substitute it with?

The state? In the West, the state is an object of contempt. We don't teach our history as a glorious tale of survival, conquest, expansion and improvement so as to make its members proud, but as a series of woeful tales about how we exploited and oppressed and killed and abused. Nothing there to take pride in! The Left insists we have no culture (except Quebec), though it has a deep respect for the cultures of others. Trudeau calls us the first 'post nation state', and says we have no 'core identity'. And anyway, whenever he speaks of Canada as an entity it is to revile it, except to speak glowingly of all the newcomers and our diversity and multiculturalism, of course.

As Goldberg pointed out, Capitalism has, over the last couple of hundred years, provided us with immense wealth. We are the richest people there has ever been in the history of the world. We are by far the most enlightened, have the most freedom, the most opportunity. But all we hear from the likes of Trudeau is that we're a horrible, racist society with a horrible history of oppression and war.

All that politicians and activists and media ever tell us is how bad things are, how violent, how outrageous are certain people's conduct, how violent are certain places. They all give us the impression the world, our world, is sinful, wicked and falling apart. No one ever says anything good, or says anyone should be grateful for living in a golden era. Masses of people are unhappy and depressed. We are the most medicated society in the history of he world. And the most entitled.

Most adapt to all this, to one degree or other, but not all, particularly not all men. They're lost. They have no tribe to belong to, no spirituality to centre them, and can find no meaning in their lives. They seek false prophets and saviors like Donald Trump, or band together in little groups of angry men who despise what society has become and blame it on feminists and foreigners and Jews, or some great dark, sinister conspiracy. Call them the alt-right, or those most vulnerable to populists, or just bewildered people who don't have a place.

Without a tribe, without a core identity, we're all simply individuals, writing our own story, and nothing else matters but us. We are alone, without the big families or even the big extended families or tribes to be a greater part of, alone on Facebook and other social media sites with like minded people trying to make them into the tribe we lack, judging our lives by 'likes' and other signs of approval. That is what gives rise to people like him, who seek a brief moment of glory in expressing their rage at a system they don't understand and are lost within.

[eyeball]

Is it just me or does Argus seem a little mislaid himself?

In any case the tribalism, populism and nationalism that Jonah Goldberg is whining about are effects not causes.  Years ago I pointed out an article from the Atlantic Monthely called Jihad vs McWorld to conservatives on this forum, including Argus, and as one might expect they were busy praising the cause which, in a word, is globalism.  As for the identity politics that Argus mentions I recall the praising of globalization involved copious amounts of generalized ridicule for lefties and such as it still does to this day.

Quote

Just beyond the horizon of current events lie two possible political futures—both bleak, neither democratic. The first is a retribalization of large swaths of humankind by war and bloodshed: a threatened Lebanonization of national states in which culture is pitted against culture, people against people, tribe against tribe—a Jihad in the name of a hundred narrowly conceived faiths against every kind of interdependence, every kind of artificial social cooperation and civic mutuality. The second is being borne in on us by the onrush of economic and ecological forces that demand integration and uniformity and that mesmerize the world with fast music, fast computers, and fast food—with MTV, Macintosh, and McDonald's, pressing nations into one commercially homogenous global network: one McWorld tied together by technology, ecology, communications, and commerce. The planet is falling precipitantly apart AND coming reluctantly together at the very same moment. 

Fricken' conservatives really need to need to pay better attention.

Edited April 24, 2018 by eyeball

[cannuck]

First of all, there IS a tribe binding spirituality today = greed.

Secondly: globalism is a liberal philosophy, not from the right.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, cannuck said:

First of all, there IS a tribe binding spirituality today = greed.

Secondly: globalism is a liberal philosophy, not from the right.

Its a greedy philosophy of the wealthy and powerful, around whom the right wing is always closely gathered.   Any attempt to implicate the left as ushers of globalism is a blatant attempt at revisionism.

There is certainly a progressive view emerging that is centred on our planet but that's not globalism,not by any stretch of its economic context.

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Its a greedy philosophy of the wealthy and powerful, around whom the right wing is always closely gathered.   Any attempt to implicate the left as ushers of globalism is a blatant attempt at revisionism.

There is certainly a progressive view emerging that is centred on our planet but that's not globalism,not by any stretch of its economic context.

 

False....that is only one of many leftist views propagated through globalism at many social and economic levels.

The liberal left is scrambling to maintain power gained through globalism, power and influence that is now being challenged by surging nationalism and economic backlash.

Trudeau describes Canada as a post national state....a globalist's dream.

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

False....that is only one of many leftist views propagated through globalism at many social and economic levels.

The liberal left is scrambling to maintain power gained through globalism, power and influence that is now being challenged by surging nationalism and economic backlash.

 

No, its true and what you said is nonsense. 

Quote

Trudeau describes Canada as a post national state....a globalist's dream.

Trudeau is not a lefty according to the true original meaning of the term, he's not even close.  That the Liberal Party is taken to be a left wing organization makes it patently clear the definition of left-wing has strayed as far away from its root meaning as the term right-wing has.strayed from its origins.

But that's life on Planet Babel these days where misunderstanding is deliberate.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No, its true and what you said is nonsense. 

Trudeau is not a lefty according to the true original meaning of the term, he's not even close.  That the Liberal Party is taken to be a left wing organization makes it patently clear the definition of left-wing has strayed as far away from its root meaning as the term right-wing has.strayed from its origins.

But that's life on Planet Babel these days where misunderstanding is deliberate.

 

 

It may be true to you, but sorry, we don't change the meaning of words and labels just to suit your perspective and definitions.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It may be true to you, but sorry, we don't change the meaning of words and labels just to suit your perspective and definitions.

Then how on Earth did the term right wing become so altered from its original meaning?  To suit your perspective that's why.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Then how on Earth did the term right wing become so altered from its original meaning?  To suit your perspective that's why.

 

Nope...you can't change it, and neither can I, but maybe it is fun to try for "earthlings".

 

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Nope...you can't change it, and neither can I

I didn't change it but someone clearly did. If not you then who and why?

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I didn't change it but someone clearly did. If not you then who and why?

 

Ask the "progressives"...they love to label everyone else for their own agenda.

[Argus]

15 hours ago, cannuck said:

First of all, there IS a tribe binding spirituality today = greed.

Secondly: globalism is a liberal philosophy, not from the right.

Capitalism is not a 'higher purpose'. It does not provide a meaning for your life. Acquiring more 'stuff' is nice, but ultimately unsatisfying.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Ask the "progressives"...they love to label everyone else for their own agenda

You're saying progressives are who changed the original definition of right-wing? Where, when, who and why?

[bush_cheney2004]

21 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're saying progressives are who changed the original definition of right-wing? Where, when, who and why?

 

Progressives (extremists) change the definition of anything that will help to separate and distance themselves from any wing.

Don't worry...most of the labels, definitions, and symbols used in Canada are imported from you-know-where, like the LGBT rainbow flag.

 

[Centerpiece]

On 4/24/2018 at 3:57 PM, Argus said:

We're getting rid of religion but what do we substitute it with?

I posted my thoughts on the fact that technology and society's apathy have enabled self-cocooning - it's a serious issue that's getting worse, not better. I have a more positive outlook on our future but it depends on decades of leadership. You don't need religion to live a contributing and charitable life. There's a lot to be said for the equivalent of the Ten Commandments and rules of life from other religions. Remove the Icons and teach the Rules of Life. Strength and focus for society HAS to be found in family - it's common sense - survival. Rules of Life and Family - that's our ongoing saviour.

Now - over to Trudeau and the various flavours of globalism. Again - common sense says that if we can survive, in 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years the human race will be largely homogenous. Nothing can stop the natural evolution to a completely mixed-race society. What frustrates me is that we have powerful forces trying to shoe-horn social engineering homogenization onto a public that is nowhere near ready to accept it. We have countries that are less that a century old. We have millions, if not billions of people that are only recently removed from tribal life. Heck, our Canadian media now looks down its nose on the US - supposedly the best of friends. Too many countries and peoples need to embrace democracy and build confidence in their collective ability to move forward. It takes time, patience and a little grease in the gears. With the acceleration of technology, it is going to be harder and harder to keep people steeped in ignorance. 

Yes - Trudeau. I really doubt he has the brains to understand any issue at a depth that's any more than superficial......but his handlers are indeed over-reaching - shoving stuff down our throats. I totally agree with your assessment that he is greatly damaging our image, confidence and our country with his negative, shaming claptrap. We've got our faults and Canadians can be overly polite (oh, I'm sorry).....but we were moving forward as well as any country until the Straw Man and Wizard came along to create divisions with his "identity politics" and endless apologies and shaming.

Never has a Prime Minister been so completely inept. I'd better stop before I suffer a stroke.

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

I posted my thoughts on the fact that technology and society's apathy have enabled self-cocooning - it's a serious issue that's getting worse, not better. I have a more positive outlook on our future but it depends on decades of leadership. You don't need religion to live a contributing and charitable life. There's a lot to be said for the equivalent of the Ten Commandments and rules of life from other religions. Remove the Icons and teach the Rules of Life. Strength and focus for society HAS to be found in family - it's common sense - survival. Rules of Life and Family - that's our ongoing saviour.

What if you have no family? Your parents had one kid, and you're it. Your father had one brother, who is childless. Your mother had no siblings. Where are you going to find strength and focus in a family that doesn't exist? 

38 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Now - over to Trudeau and the various flavours of globalism. Again - common sense says that if we can survive, in 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years the human race will be largely homogenous. Nothing can stop the natural evolution to a completely mixed-race society. What frustrates me is that we have powerful forces trying to shoe-horn social engineering homogenization onto a public that is nowhere near ready to accept it.

Because the motivation for this social engineering is a desire for equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunity. That's why we penalize Asians, making it harder for them to get into universities, for example, and then lower the requirements for Blacks. It's why we hire and promote people for their skin colour or gender, not because they're the best. The latest idiocy of the Trudeau mob involves a special trade mission to the world on behalf of gays and lesbians, and then another just for women. Why? Trade is trade. The Liberals are trying to divide everyone up into group and so they can curry favour with those groups and get votes. So much preening and virtue signaling about how wonderful they are. Our idiot of a foreign minister has even called for a meeting of female foreign ministers. Uh, why? I wonder what her response would be if another (Male) foreign minister called for a meeting of male foreign minsters - no women wanted.

38 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Yes - Trudeau. I really doubt he has the brains to understand any issue at a depth that's any more than superficial......but his handlers are indeed over-reaching - shoving stuff down our throats. I totally agree with your assessment that he is greatly damaging our image, confidence and our country with his negative, shaming claptrap. 

He's unfortunately not alone. Go to one of our national museums. Look at the courses they're teaching in college or even grade school. Anything related to history is full of sob stories about how horrible we were to this or that identity group. There's nothing in there designed to instill pride in anyone for being a member of this nation or  society. After all, Canada is horrible! It's got poverty and racism and sexism and misogyny and islamophobia and is built on the oppression of natives and the destruction of the environment! Oh woe, woe is us! Be depressed Be ashamed! Hang your head in misery!

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

With the acceleration of technology, it is going to be harder and harder to keep people steeped in ignorance.

 

Hopefully.  I seem to cross paths with at least as many people who subscribe to chem-trail conspiracies and Bigfoot as they do God. And all three just as often.

I mean, even the state acquiesces to superstition...I figure the preamble to our constitution has a lot to do with making superstition and inappropriate thinking respectable.

The goal is to get the 750-kilogram orca out of Nootka Sound, where the playful whale has become a nuisance to boats and planes in the nearby harbour, about 230 kilometres north of Victoria. The plan was announced yesterday by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Vancouver Aquarium.

Is Orca a Reincarnated Native Chief

Luna's rescue failed due to opposition from First Nations, who used canoes to lead Luna from capture.The Mowachaht/Muchalaht band believed Luna was the reincarnation of chief Ambrose Maquinna. In 2005, the band was awarded $48,000 from DFO to monitor Luna and educated boaters to ensure the safety of the whale.

The orca died of course.

Edited April 26, 2018 by eyeball

[Centerpiece]

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

What if you have no family? Your parents had one kid, and you're it. Your father had one brother, who is childless. Your mother had no siblings. Where are you going to find strength and focus in a family that doesn't exist? 

Society has to work to ensure that people in these situations remain a small minority in the bigger picture. The human race needs family to survive and thrive. That's why it's so frustrating to watch Toronto's (mainly) Baby Mom culture go unchallenged. It's not poverty and it's not racism. It's cultural and it HAS to change. There are plenty of income-challenged Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese and other people of colour who don't throw their fatherless kids in the street to fend for themselves. Poor parenting within First Nations - I think we've beaten that one to death in other topics. We just let things fester in the name of hand-wringing political correctness - AKA cowardice.

23 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because the motivation for this social engineering is a desire for equality of outcomes, not equality of opportunity. That's why we penalize Asians, making it harder for them to get into universities, for example, and then lower the requirements for Blacks. It's why we hire and promote people for their skin colour or gender, not because they're the best. The latest idiocy of the Trudeau mob involves a special trade mission to the world on behalf of gays and lesbians, and then another just for women. Why? Trade is trade. The Liberals are trying to divide everyone up into group and so they can curry favour with those groups and get votes. So much preening and virtue signaling about how wonderful they are. Our idiot of a foreign minister has even called for a meeting of female foreign ministers. Uh, why? I wonder what her response would be if another (Male) foreign minister called for a meeting of male foreign minsters - no women wanted.

He's unfortunately not alone. Go to one of our national museums. Look at the courses they're teaching in college or even grade school. Anything related to history is full of sob stories about how horrible we were to this or that identity group. There's nothing in there designed to instill pride in anyone for being a member of this nation or  society. After all, Canada is horrible! It's got poverty and racism and sexism and misogyny and islamophobia and is built on the oppression of natives and the destruction of the environment! Oh woe, woe is us! Be depressed Be ashamed! Hang your head in misery!

Agreed.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

I posted my thoughts on the fact that technology and society's apathy have enabled self-cocooning - it's a serious issue that's getting worse, not better. I have a more positive outlook on our future but it depends on decades of leadership. You don't need religion to live a contributing and charitable life. There's a lot to be said for the equivalent of the Ten Commandments and rules of life from other religions. Remove the Icons and teach the Rules of Life. Strength and focus for society HAS to be found in family - it's common sense - survival. Rules of Life and Family - that's our ongoing saviour.

Although I believe we should be raising our own children and not sending them off to child corals to be raised by strangers I also believe each person is an individual. "Family" by definition is a group of people tied together by succession and technically we are all "family" if you go back far enough. 

As children grow and become independent they form their own social circles and move on, father/mother/brother/sister become a title family members have, there are many reasons these individuals are not always part of each other's lives. There is no reason to treat family any different than other members of the human race. 

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Now - over to Trudeau and the various flavours of globalism. Again - common sense says that if we can survive, in 100, 200, 500 or 1000 years the human race will be largely homogenous. Nothing can stop the natural evolution to a completely mixed-race society. What frustrates me is that we have powerful forces trying to shoe-horn social engineering homogenization onto a public that is nowhere near ready to accept it. We have countries that are less that a century old. We have millions, if not billions of people that are only recently removed from tribal life. Heck, our Canadian media now looks down its nose on the US - supposedly the best of friends. Too many countries and peoples need to embrace democracy and build confidence in their collective ability to move forward. It takes time, patience and a little grease in the gears.

Why does the world population need to mix? What's wrong with different colors/body types/gender/language/cultures etc.? I think it's stupid people need to believe this is inevitable. 

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

With the acceleration of technology, it is going to be harder and harder to keep people steeped in ignorance. 

I'd say easier, what is the truth anymore? Every individual's idea of the "truth" is contained somewhere within this wonderful form of technology, it's easier than ever to adjust people's perspective for your desired purpose. 

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Yes - Trudeau. I really doubt he has the brains to understand any issue at a depth that's any more than superficial......but his handlers are indeed over-reaching - shoving stuff down our throats. I totally agree with your assessment that he is greatly damaging our image, confidence and our country with his negative, shaming claptrap. We've got our faults and Canadians can be overly polite (oh, I'm sorry).....but we were moving forward as well as any country until the Straw Man and Wizard came along to create divisions with his "identity politics" and endless apologies and shaming.

Canada is doing what it does best, following whatever global trend happens to be in fashion. Trudeau is no different than those before him. 

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Never has a Prime Minister been so completely inept. I'd better stop before I suffer a stroke.

LOL, well, we made him our leader 

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

To Argus, my opinion... 

The past is the past, use it as a reference, learn from it and move on. Trudeau is just acknowledging what actually happened, to me apologizing for what the dominant population has done the last couple generations actually makes sense. We did some really bad stuff to indigenous people and we need do what we can to correct it and move on. 

I don't understand this "tribal" thing you speak of. The masses worshipping some imaginary entity, superstar, politician or whatever makes no sense. Why not just be good people and live for the earth and each other? Think with your mind, not mob mentality. 

It's interesting how little wealth is actually worth without genuine happiness. 

[Centerpiece]

11 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Why does the world population need to mix? What's wrong with different colors/body types/gender/language/cultures etc.? I think it's stupid people need to believe this is inevitable. 

It doesn't NEED to mix. It just will. It's inevitable. Most of the world's problems are exacerbated, if not caused by colors, language and culture. Gradually minimize those "differences" and you're on a very long road to a better place. I know it sounds Star-Trekky - but if the Human Race can survive itself, we'll have bigger fish to fry in the Universe than the pettiness that's ongoing today.....and it's not that far in the future. A united planet - populating other planets. As they say, if you don't know where you're going - any road will get you there. But don't try to force feed the populace.  It takes time, a vision and patience.

[Thinkinoutsidethebox]

5 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

It doesn't NEED to mix. It just will. It's inevitable. Most of the world's problems are exacerbated, if not caused by colors, language and culture. Gradually minimize those "differences" and you're on a very long road to a better place. I know it sounds Star-Trekky - but if the Human Race can survive itself, we'll have bigger fish to fry in the Universe than the pettiness that's ongoing today.....and it's not that far in the future. A united planet - populating other planets. As they say, if you don't know where you're going - any road will get you there. But don't try to force feed the populace.  It takes time, a vision and patience.

That's baloney, you could clone humans and there would be the same discrimination there is today, visible differences have nothing to do with it. Ask Hitler... 

And it has nothing to do with moving forward as a species. Today humans are working harder than ever to exacerbate the human race, war was unsuccessful, disease isn't working, starvation isn't going to do it so maybe AI will be the ticket. If AI is going to be as intelligent as they say then logically it'll see what we are doing and proceed to wipe us out. 

Besides, being all the same would be boring as hell. 

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Society has to work to ensure that people in these situations remain a small minority in the bigger picture. The human race needs family to survive and thrive. T

But they're not a small minority. Most people today, if they have kids, have one, or at most two. Many have none. That does not lead to large, thriving families to help and lend emotional support to people. I have a relative who is schizophrenic. Without the help and support of family members he would probably have been out on the street. There are all kinds of people with varying levels of emotional stability and psychological health who would be homeless without family support. But those families are shrinking away because people are just not having many kids - or sometimes any.

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

Although I believe we should be raising our own children and not sending them off to child corals to be raised by strangers I also believe each person is an individual. "Family" by definition is a group of people tied together by succession and technically we are all "family" if you go back far enough. 

As children grow and become independent they form their own social circles and move on, father/mother/brother/sister become a title family members have, there are many reasons these individuals are not always part of each other's lives. There is no reason to treat family any different than other members of the human race. 

We share a history, our most important time of life, growing up, with siblings and family. Yes, we can make friends. Are we going to get up every morning with those friends, sometimes in the same bedroom, eat breakfast and dinner with them year after year, hang around with them, play games with them every evening, go on holidays with them, experience life with them, living together for our formative years? Nope.

And people are having fewer and fewer friends now. When I was a kid, we'd spent most afternoons and evenings on the street. There were always five or ten or fifteen other kids to play with and do things with, be it road hockey or tag or hide and go seek or whatever. They all lived on our block. We knew their parents and they knew us. Now, most blocks are lucky if there are actually two families with kids near the same age. Going outside to play has been replaced with arranged play-dates, where kids are driven to some other child's house for a few hours. Kids, and teenagers, and young adults, spend so much time on-line, and playing video games and watching Netflix and TV there is far less social interaction, far less time to become close to other people. So many people  are not only bereft of family but of a large group of friends, too. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Argus

[Centerpiece]

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

But they're not a small minority. Most people today, if they have kids, have one, or at most two. Many have none. That does not lead to large, thriving families to help and lend emotional support to people. I have a relative who is schizophrenic. Without the help and support of family members he would probably have been out on the street. There are all kinds of people with varying levels of emotional stability and psychological health who would be homeless without family support. But those families are shrinking away because people are just not having many kids - or sometimes any.

I guess I just have a more hopeful outlook. A family can have strength without children although I admit, it's lousy for the population/demographic requirements. Point is - you draw strength from those who are close. Some family circles are much smaller than others. If the number of lifelong single men and women increases substantially, they won't have people to draw on and MIGHT be more at risk to isolationism. I think you're implying that mental illness is on the upswing. Tough one to evaluate because we are now much better at diagnosis - and treatment. That said, there seems to be a pill for everything when in fact, some people need some guidance and a boot in the arse - tough love. Of course, now you get thrown in jail. Oh the humanity!