Are Conspiracy Theorists 'Nuts"

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

I have a right to question or deny anything. I could deny that there was a 2nd WW if I want to.

 

Fill your boots.  I didn't say you couldn't claim anything.  Just that it was dumb. 

You could even use the same reasoning for the WWII question if you want.  Just adjust the numbers to suit.  That would be dumb too.

[taxme]

8 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Those that died in concentration camps were only a part of the total killed, many others were shot or victims of the gas wagons and still more died as a result of the conditions they were forced into. You also seem to ignore the fact that there were many concentration camps, the estimates there are:

• Auschwitz complex (including Birkenau, Monowitz, and subcamps): approximately 1 million
• Treblinka 2: approximately 925,000
• Belzec: 434,508
• Sobibor: at least 167,000
• Chelmno: 156,000–172,000

No one was led into any gas chamber to be killed.That is a lie that has been pushed on the gullible gentiles for decades now. Most gentiles don't know that but most Jews do. The Germans did not have a plan to exterminate Jews at all. The Jews that died in any camps all died from natural causes along with other prisoners. Hitler even had Jews working for him in the German government. Norman Finkelstein, a Jew, wrote a book called " The Holocaust Industry". What more can be said? Believe what you want to believe. 

[taxme]

7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Fill your boots.  I didn't say you couldn't claim anything.  Just that it was dumb. 

You could even use the same reasoning for the WWII question if you want.  Just adjust the numbers to suit.  That would be dumb too.

Well thank you for allowing anyone the right to deny anything that they want to. It is always dumb of people when they only want to get to know the truth that the liars don't want them to learn or know about. The book was called "The Myth of the Six Million". Now it is up to anyone who wants to look into it go for it and let them go from there. You can find it on the internet just punch it in. Maybe the dumb ones are the ones who will believe anything told to them without first looking into and reading the other side of the story. Just saying.  

[Michael Hardner]

I love how the 'freedom of speech' people can simultaneously claim the right to lie (for example, denying the holocaust) and ALSO that people near to hear 'the truth'.  Such people are called "trolls" and worthwhile people just leave if there are too many of them around.  

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

Well thank you for allowing anyone the right to deny anything that they want to. It is always dumb of people when they only want to get to know the truth that the liars don't want them to learn or know about. The book was called "The Myth of the Six Million". Now it is up to anyone who wants to look into it go for it and let them go from there. You can find it on the internet just punch it in. Maybe the dumb ones are the ones who will believe anything told to them without first looking into and reading the other side of the story. Just saying.  

No, the dumb ones are the ones who believe the drivel in the book you quoted, but like I said, fill your boots. 

[Queenmandy85]

7 hours ago, taxme said:

The Germans did not have a plan to exterminate Jews at all. The Jews that died in any camps all died from natural causes along with other prisoners.

Well, that says everything we need to know about your credibility.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Well, that says everything we need to know about your credibility.

At some point you have to figure he's just making it up as he goes along.

[Argus]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

No one was led into any gas chamber to be killed.That is a lie that has been pushed on the gullible gentiles for decades now. 

So all those mounds of naked, rake thin bodies in the concentration camps in the old B&W movies we watched in school in the sixties were what, CGI effects? And all the living were just actors who had been on a diet? And they all signed a confidentiality agreement, including the people who 'posed' as camp guards, to maintain their lie for the rest of their lives? All the many hundreds of thousands of them?

There comes a point when believing in bloody stupidity because you read it on some backwater of the internet doesn't just make you seem gullible, it makes you stupid.

[Queenmandy85]

10 hours ago, taxme said:

 The book was called "The Myth of the Six Million". Now it is up to anyone who wants to look into it go for it and let them go from there. You can find it on the internet just punch it in. Maybe the dumb ones are the ones who will believe anything told to them without first looking into and reading the other side of the story. Just saying.  

Are you familiar with the trial of Adolph Eichmann? His defence was not that the holocaust never took place. His defence was that he was just following orders when he participated in the killing of millions of jews. He did not deny millions of jews were murdered. Since he was on trial for his life, do you not think if he could prove the holocaust never happened, he would have? He was present at the Wannsee conference, after all. If you go to the original documents, you could have no doubt that Heydrich and Muller, under orders from Hitler, murdered millions of jews, as well as others.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Queenmandy85

[Scott Mayers]

On the above digression, check out, http://skepticforum.com/viewforum.php?f=72&sid=428b12d038192f29ccab8ce0239432dc , or for the dedicated area on Holocaust Denial, http://skepticforum.com/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=428b12d038192f29ccab8ce0239432dc .

I used to complain about the section at the skeptic forum on Holocaust Denial as being too distinguished to represent something unbiased about the supporters there. Although I have no concern to even doubt the events, my concern there was to WHY the topic had its own distinct folder rather than be a subsection under "conspiracies" or "politics" or, etc. My point was that simply focusing on it the way it does DOES suggest some sort of preferential political bias for keeping the concern alive. To me, the particular number of 6 million is both irrelevant and unsurprising if it was possibly exaggerated. The fight only diverts attention away from better things to be skeptical about the times and events discussed: like how you can make 'sense' of the WAY people were thinking that drove them to behave the ways they did from each different perspective. 

 

On Conspiracies, I understand the OP here raising the concern. It IS used to as a means to insult and something I am highly against as it only fuels fire where listening and calm reflection can actually become more productive. I equally loathe the "dunce capping" kind of sections in many forums involved in science because they also inappropriately assign people with lunacy prior to establishing if they have anything interesting to say. Even censorship is a problem. 

"Conspiracies" DO exist. But the degree to how they could occur is hard to discern. With 911 I anticipated something likely to occur given the politics of the days and HOW the right-wing governments preferentially like to SET a  STAGE to entice violent events because they believe in its incidental virtues to the capitalist venture while simultaneously disrupting government power for the social-type systems they loathe. Conspiracies can also be "silent" in a form like what psychology has labeled, the "Bystander Effect". If others notice one fall among a crowded and busy street, it is easy to ignore the victim when you see everyone doing it simultaneously. Businesses often exploit such lessons and while no one has to necessarily 'shake hands', large businesses simply take the 'hint' of the observations of how certain hazards get overlooked. Then they equally 'fall in sync' without a need to formally conspire. This is just like peer pressure. 

911 to me was easy to resolve. Just make a necessary requirement that the cockpits stay locked! But it acted like a convenient mechanism to which Bush already WANTED: war with Iraq. So in this vein, while the administrators of government do not have to directly 'conspire', they can certainly stage things so that what they want 'appear' as though demand by public outcries for justice. The 911 event was a 'desirable' factor for the governments as it lead to means of control they wanted but never had the chance to appeal to before. The further flaws of the rhetoric used to justify direct war with Iraq after Afghanistan certainly DID have obvious 'conspiratorial' evidences. ...much of them overt: like the search for WDMs, etc.

Another conspiracy today involves the whole "identity politics" movement. There is an intended deception being used that is likely due to the likes of conservative normal politics that the 'alt' left advocates likely believed they MUST advocate without LOGICAL clarity. Instead, the belief that revolution requires complete overthrow using POWER political moves (in kind to "48 Laws of Power") likely made these interest groups realize they need to play mean rather than sincere. It is thus a form of 'conspiracy' when those normally of the intellectual variety openly use ANTI-INTELLECTUAL and highly EMOTIONAL means to attack advocacy for specific minorities based on cultural identifications.

Be cautious of agreeing with me though....you might be 'conspiring' with me!  

[eyeball]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:20 PM, taxme said:

What did I miss?  

The little bits of detonation cord.  They're usually red and everywhere you look.

[taxme]

On 3/8/2018 at 9:22 AM, Argus said:

So all those mounds of naked, rake thin bodies in the concentration camps in the old B&W movies we watched in school in the sixties were what, CGI effects? And all the living were just actors who had been on a diet? And they all signed a confidentiality agreement, including the people who 'posed' as camp guards, to maintain their lie for the rest of their lives? All the many hundreds of thousands of them?

There comes a point when believing in bloody stupidity because you read it on some backwater of the internet doesn't just make you seem gullible, it makes you stupid.

Norman Finklestein, Ernst Zundel,  IHR.org and so many others have proven that the 6 million is all a myth. But for you to know this you have to read what they have to say. By listening to some backwater on the internet does make you appear to be gullible also. Stupid is a word that belongs to people who refuse to read the other side of the story. 

[taxme]

On 3/8/2018 at 11:13 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

Are you familiar with the trial of Adolph Eichmann? His defence was not that the holocaust never took place. His defence was that he was just following orders when he participated in the killing of millions of jews. He did not deny millions of jews were murdered. Since he was on trial for his life, do you not think if he could prove the holocaust never happened, he would have? He was present at the Wannsee conference, after all. If you go to the original documents, you could have no doubt that Heydrich and Muller, under orders from Hitler, murdered millions of jews, as well as others.

All soldiers are forced to have obey orders. If they do not then it will be a court martial for the soldier. No one is denying that Jews did not die in the war. It is the number of Jews that is being questioned by so many. 

[taxme]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:56 PM, eyeball said:

The little bits of detonation cord.  They're usually red and everywhere you look.

As I already said before all the debris from the towers were all hauled away to China before a proper investigation could be done and that included everything plus detonation cords. If a proper investigation had been done those detonating cords would probably have been found if the towers had been brought down by explosives. We will never know now. It would appear that all the evidence about explosives has been removed. After any high rise that ends up being involved in some kind of incident an investigation always follows. It can take months sometimes. There was no investigation done on the twin towers. Everything was pretty much removed in weeks maybe to hide the evidence that this was a conspiracy. Hey, you never know. 

[taxme]

On 3/8/2018 at 8:06 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

Well, that says everything we need to know about your credibility.

So, you have the plans right in your hand that shows that the Germans had a plan to exterminate all Jews or as many as they could, uhmm?  

So, let me ask you this. What was it that made the Germans want to exterminate as many Jews as they can in the first place?  Over to you. 

[taxme]

On 3/8/2018 at 8:16 AM, bcsapper said:

At some point you have to figure he's just making it up as he goes along.

So, what would be the reason for the Germans to want to go after Jews and kill as many as they could? Why did they appear to hate the Jews so much? Over to you. 

[taxme]

On 3/8/2018 at 4:25 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I love how the 'freedom of speech' people can simultaneously claim the right to lie (for example, denying the holocaust) and ALSO that people near to hear 'the truth'.  Such people are called "trolls" and worthwhile people just leave if there are too many of them around.  

 

Thanks to freedom of speech you are also allowed the right to believe what you want to believe and give your opinion just like everyone else has that right also to their opinions. No one is denying a holocaust did not happen. But plenty of people have denied the 6 million number. I will ask you this. Why would the Germans want to kill the Jews anyway? Did the Jews stick their tongues or give the Germans the finger?  What was their reason for them to want to commit such a crime? Over to you. 

[taxme]

On 3/11/2018 at 10:53 PM, Scott Mayers said:

On the above digression, check out, http://skepticforum.com/viewforum.php?f=72&sid=428b12d038192f29ccab8ce0239432dc , or for the dedicated area on Holocaust Denial, http://skepticforum.com/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=428b12d038192f29ccab8ce0239432dc .

I used to complain about the section at the skeptic forum on Holocaust Denial as being too distinguished to represent something unbiased about the supporters there. Although I have no concern to even doubt the events, my concern there was to WHY the topic had its own distinct folder rather than be a subsection under "conspiracies" or "politics" or, etc. My point was that simply focusing on it the way it does DOES suggest some sort of preferential political bias for keeping the concern alive. To me, the particular number of 6 million is both irrelevant and unsurprising if it was possibly exaggerated. The fight only diverts attention away from better things to be skeptical about the times and events discussed: like how you can make 'sense' of the WAY people were thinking that drove them to behave the ways they did from each different perspective. 

 

On Conspiracies, I understand the OP here raising the concern. It IS used to as a means to insult and something I am highly against as it only fuels fire where listening and calm reflection can actually become more productive. I equally loathe the "dunce capping" kind of sections in many forums involved in science because they also inappropriately assign people with lunacy prior to establishing if they have anything interesting to say. Even censorship is a problem. 

"Conspiracies" DO exist. But the degree to how they could occur is hard to discern. With 911 I anticipated something likely to occur given the politics of the days and HOW the right-wing governments preferentially like to SET a  STAGE to entice violent events because they believe in its incidental virtues to the capitalist venture while simultaneously disrupting government power for the social-type systems they loathe. Conspiracies can also be "silent" in a form like what psychology has labeled, the "Bystander Effect". If others notice one fall among a crowded and busy street, it is easy to ignore the victim when you see everyone doing it simultaneously. Businesses often exploit such lessons and while no one has to necessarily 'shake hands', large businesses simply take the 'hint' of the observations of how certain hazards get overlooked. Then they equally 'fall in sync' without a need to formally conspire. This is just like peer pressure. 

911 to me was easy to resolve. Just make a necessary requirement that the cockpits stay locked! But it acted like a convenient mechanism to which Bush already WANTED: war with Iraq. So in this vein, while the administrators of government do not have to directly 'conspire', they can certainly stage things so that what they want 'appear' as though demand by public outcries for justice. The 911 event was a 'desirable' factor for the governments as it lead to means of control they wanted but never had the chance to appeal to before. The further flaws of the rhetoric used to justify direct war with Iraq after Afghanistan certainly DID have obvious 'conspiratorial' evidences. ...much of them overt: like the search for WDMs, etc.

Another conspiracy today involves the whole "identity politics" movement. There is an intended deception being used that is likely due to the likes of conservative normal politics that the 'alt' left advocates likely believed they MUST advocate without LOGICAL clarity. Instead, the belief that revolution requires complete overthrow using POWER political moves (in kind to "48 Laws of Power") likely made these interest groups realize they need to play mean rather than sincere. It is thus a form of 'conspiracy' when those normally of the intellectual variety openly use ANTI-INTELLECTUAL and highly EMOTIONAL means to attack advocacy for specific minorities based on cultural identifications.

Be cautious of agreeing with me though....you might be 'conspiring' with me!  

Why then have there been many skeptics put in jail in some European countries like Austria for instance for denying the holocaust? It would seem that a simple ignore of those people would be enough for those who did believe a 6 million holocaust did happen. Putting people in the gulag for questioning or challenging any event is kind of ridiculous, don't you think? If a country has to throw people into the gulag for daring to question anything than that tells me that there must be something to hide. Shut them up put them in the gulag so as to put the fear into others who may try to do the same. If you do not want to see that there is something wrong with this picture than what more can be said.

 

But let me ask you this question. Why did the Germans want to slaughter so many Jews in the first place? What did the Jews do that pizzed off the Germans? Over to you. 

[Queenmandy85]

42 minutes ago, taxme said:

So, what would be the reason for the Germans to want to go after Jews and kill as many as they could? Why did they appear to hate the Jews so much? Over to you. 

I refer you to the Wannsee Conference. You may also want to look at the evidence presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the trial of Adolph Eichmann.

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Queenmandy85

[taxme]

27 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I refer you to the Wannsee Conference. You may also want to look at the evidence presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the trial of Adolph Eichmann.

 

Look, you and I were not there at the conference so we both know dyk about what was said at the conference. Many historical revisionists stated that the Jews were destroying Germany and many Germans wanted them controlled or maybe ousted out of the country. But again there appears to be nothing said in there has to why the Germans wanted to knock off so many Jews. So again what would their reason being for wanting to get rid of the Jews other than for maybe some reason they despised them? Then why would they despise them? Over. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, taxme said:

As I already said before all the debris from the towers were all hauled away to China before a proper investigation could be done and that included everything plus detonation cords. If a proper investigation had been done those detonating cords would probably have been found if the towers had been brought down by explosives.

Nonetheless pieces of detonation cord would have been as obvious and conspicuous as fresh daisies the minute the dust cleared.

Quote

Everything was pretty much removed in weeks maybe to hide the evidence that this was a conspiracy. Hey, you never know.

Perhaps but there is no way on Earth the detonation cords would have been missed.  I ask again have you ever been to the site of a fairly large controlled detonation within minutes of the dust clearing? I've been to several and they pretty much all look the same, rubble, dust and little pieces of detonation cord everywhere. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

So, what would be the reason for the Germans to want to go after Jews and kill as many as they could? Why did they appear to hate the Jews so much? Over to you. 

Can I just state right here that I'm not going to engage you further in this foolishness, and no amount of "aha, it's because you can't!" will get me to change my mind. 

Over to you, but there's no point in it for you.

[Michael Hardner]

34 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Can I just state right here that I'm not going to engage you further in this foolishness

Come ON Sapper... Why would they do that ? What evidence is there that the Nazis ever held animosity towards the Jews ?   it's not like the Nazis ever expressed any acrimony towards them.

Actually here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda#Jews

 

Quote

Antisemitic propaganda was a common theme in Nazi propaganda, although it was occasionally reduced for tactical reasons, such as for the 1936 Olympic Games. It was a recurring topic in Hitler's book Mein Kampf (1925–26), which was a key component of Nazi ideology.

Early in his membership in the Nazi Party, Hitler presented the Jews as behind all of Germany's moral and economic problems, as featuring in both Bolshevism and international capitalism

 

Of course.. we can't say we understand the motivation of the free speech types who love this board so.  They likely think that the Jews deserved to get shoved around a little for being so successful and liking Jazz and whatnot.  There's probably something about us being afraid of the truth in there too. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Come ON Sapper... Why would they do that ? What evidence is there that the Nazis ever held animosity towards the Jews ?   it's not like the Nazis ever expressed any acrimony towards them.

Actually here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Themes_in_Nazi_propaganda#Jews

 

 

Of course.. we can't say we understand the motivation of the free speech types who love this board so.  They likely think that the Jews deserved to get shoved around a little for being so successful and liking Jazz and whatnot.  There's probably something about us being afraid of the truth in there too. 

I'm a free speech type, and I don't mind Jazz, or this board.  I don't know about "love" though...

[Queenmandy85]

6 hours ago, taxme said:

Look, you and I were not there at the conference so we both know dyk about what was said at the conference. Many historical revisionists stated that the Jews were destroying Germany and many Germans wanted them controlled or maybe ousted out of the country. But again there appears to be nothing said in there has to why the Germans wanted to knock off so many Jews. So again what would their reason being for wanting to get rid of the Jews other than for maybe some reason they despised them? Then why would they despise them? Over. 

Heydrich's staff kept minutes of the Wannsee conference. They outlined the reasons for, and the plans for the final solution. The records from the Nuremberg trials and Eichmann's trial detail to attempted extermination of the Jews. The administrators of the final solution kept careful records of the numbers of people sent to the gas chambers, the number of people sent to slave labour camps, even the net profit estimated per slave before they perished. They recorded the gold taken from the teeth of the prisoners. If you read up on the Nuremberg trials, you cannot escape the horror inflicted on the Jews of Europe, as well as homosexuals, communists, socialists and the mentally challenged.

Anti semitism was not a German phenomenon. It was wide spread, even in Canada. What set the nazis apart was they industrialized the attempt to kill all jews in Europe. 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Queenmandy85