Iran needs some democracy

SpankyMcFarland · July 4, 2018

I dont think they would be. They sound even worse than the Iraqi National Congress. Of course, I’m just guessing. I’ve never been to Iran and have little knowledge of it at all.

Edited July 4, 2018 by SpankyMcFarland

CITIZEN_2015 · July 4, 2018

10 hours ago, kactus said:

I have already given the answer but somehow got ignored through selective hearing. Sorry citizen!

Sorry kactus but you have not given a direct practical response.

You oppose and oppose but have not said what is the alternative to mullahs that can practically overthrow mullahs and take over and establish guaranteed democracy in Iran.

You said MEK is very bad. You oppose US military interference on the grounds that democracy cannot be exported and has to be developed from within Iran. All I see in your comments is opposition to proposed solutions but no proposed solution from you. Mullahs to stay in power is your solution? (not that you want this of course) until the time that they totally and completely destroy Iran and civil war breaks out? and amillion more die? And remember that disintegration probability increases every day they remain in power.

Please clarify one more time even if you say you have done so already, and with a very direct response. WHAT YOU PROPOSE IS BEST TO HAPPEN? since you are opposing everything I suggetsed. Are you saying it is best that mullahs remain in power? Since you already acknowledged they are not reformable?

The nation of Iran don't have bread (a desparate need for growing economy NOW). Please do not suggest that they should eat cake (wait for democracy) instead

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 4, 2018

5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Would MEK be acceptable to most Iranians and create a democratic state?

I have already said that they are hated by most Iranians however, to my surprise they can gather a good crowd outside Iran (about 100,000 last weekend). They have betrayed Iran and Iranians more than once. They helped the ayatollahs to come to power in 1979 and their help was significant and Iranians are in this mess because of them. They helped Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussain who invaded Iran and fought against their own homeland. They killed Americans before the 1979 coup. i do not like them at all.

All that said, they are now speaking of democracy and equality especially equality of gender. Maybe they are reformed or changed after 50 years. There is a chance that they have which is better than NO CHANCE with mullahs as kactus has acknowledged they are NOT reformable. And may be like anyone else they need a second chance to prove one way ar another. For sure they will END Iran's isolation and at worse a dictatorship like China may emerge. A complete dictatorship but with growing economy and international investments. Or at best maybe they keep their promises and establish a democracy. Anything is better than status quo a there is NO HOPE and NO FUTUER in status quo.

But Iranians cannot sit around and witness their lives and country completely destroyed and robbed even more by a bunch of terrorists until the perfect solution arrives whch may never arrive. As I said it is easy to be outside a fire and witness OTHERS burning in fire and ask them to be patient until the fire fighters arrive. I think last statement is a good example describing well how others who are outside iran are commenting opposing all available alternatives.

Edited July 4, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

marcus · July 5, 2018

On 7/2/2018 at 7:50 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So what is your solution????

My solution is to go forward with open market and trade. Look at the transformation in China. The more people are able to create connections with others through trade and other means, the less power these tyrannical governments will have.

Iran has a large well-educated young population which is ready to burst onto the world stage. By not isolating Iran, Iranians will be able to begin trading all over the world and creating connections all around the world.

When you isolate a country and its people through sanctions and through the market, then you create the perfect atmosphere for tyranny to flourish (ex: Iran, Iraq (under Saddam), North Korea). When you attack countries and start wars, then you create the perfect atmosphere for chaos to begin (ex: Iraq, Libya, Syria). When you open up the market, then the old system begins to fade and progress can have a chance (ex: China, Vietnam).

Edited July 5, 2018 by marcus

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

1 hour ago, marcus said:

My solution is go forward with open market and trade. Look at the transformation in China. The more people are able to create connections with others through trade and other means, the less power these tyrannical governments will have.

Iran has a large well-educated young population which is ready to burst onto the world stage. By not isolating Iran, iranians will be able to begin trading all over the world and creating connections all around the world.

When you isolate a country and its people through sanctions and through the market, then you create the perfect atmosphere for tyranny to flourish (ex: Iran, Iraq (under Saddam), North Korea). When you attack countries and start wars, then you create the perfect atmosphere for chaos to begin (ex: Iraq, Libya, Syria). When you open up the market, then the old system begins the fade and progress can have a chance (ex: China, Vietnam).

What you are saying marcus shows how disconnected or ignorant you are with the reality of Iranian political scene. Your solution is good and in the past people like Rafsanjani and Khatami and Rouhani tried to do just that EXCEPT that they were all BLOCKED by the real center of powers in Iran. That is the Ayatollahs and their thugs, the sepah (as just one example out of many as soon as Rouhani negotiated and signed the nuclear deal then the sepah likely under ayatollah's order started firing and testing balistic missile to kill the deal and they succeeded and many other examples).

They do not allow open market. They did their best and were very successful to isolate Iran from the world because they knew they will not survive if Iran and affairs of Iranians improve like in China. In China dictotors who were also politicians and educated (like MEK politicians) got the power but in Iran a bunch of iiliterate uneducated ignorant bunch of people who only understand force and hate got the power and ruled for 40 years by deception and lies and creating imaginary enemies and fed on hate and threat of war and continous wars.

It was the invisible government in Iran who has isolated iran for 40 years starting with American hostage taking in 1980 and contnuing an unnecessary war with Iraq for 8 years and acts of terrorism against Americans and Europeans and Jews and Israelis and just about everyone and extereme repression in Iran.

The regiime in power do not wish to open up period. If they open up then they would be toppled period. THIS REGIME WILL NEVER BE REFORMED. 40 year is enough. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Time for Ayatollahs to go BY ANY MEANS. They fooled Iran nation for 40 years with YOUR SOLUTION. Iran nation will NOT be fooled anymore.

Your solution is that the regime of mullahs to remain in power and again promising that they will reform and open up to world and end Iran isolation (something that they have not done in 40 years) and I TOTALLY reject that fictitious solution as it is contrary to regime's nature and so will most if not all of Iranians as is evident by risking their lives and opposing this regime. Enough with these political games. Iran nation will not be fooled anymore with these lies and games and will not stand by and see their country is totally destroyed by these mullahs who can only survive on hate and isolation.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

marcus · July 5, 2018

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What you are saying marcus shows how disconnected or ignorant you are with the reality of Iranian political scene. Your solution is good and in the past people like Rafsanjani and Khatami and Rouhani tried to do just that EXCEPT that they were all BLOCKED by the real center of powers in Iran. That is the Ayatollahs and their thugs, the sepah (as just one example out of many as soon as Rouhani negotiated and signed the nuclear deal then the sepah likely under ayatollah's order started firing and testing balistic missile to kill the deal and they succeeded and many other examples).

You are blaming the killing of the deal on the Iranians and not Trump who said from the beginning that he will be killing it?

This has been an ongoing theme with you. You are too angry and want to blame everything on one side. You are not yet capable of having a proper discussion, because of your one-dimensional way of thinking.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

They do not allow open market. They did their best and were very successful to isolate Iran from the world because they knew they will not survive if Iran and affairs of Iranians improve like in China. In China dictotors who were also politicians and educated (like MEK politicians) got the power but in Iran a bunch of iiliterate uneducated ignorant bunch of people who only understand force and hate got the power and ruled for 40 years by deception and lies and creating imaginary enemies and fed on hate and threat of war and continous wars.

It was the invisible government in Iran who has isolated iran for 40 years starting with American hostage taking in 1980 and contnuing an unnecessary war with Iraq for 8 years and acts of terrorism against Americans and Europeans and Jews and Israelis and just about everyone and extereme repression in Iran.

The regiime in power do not wish to open up period. If they open up then they would be toppled period. THIS REGIME WILL NEVER BE REFORMED. 40 year is enough. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Time for Ayatollahs to go BY ANY MEANS. They fooled Iran nation for 40 years with YOUR SOLUTION. Iran nation will NOT be fooled anymore.

Your solution is that the regime of mullahs to remain in power and again promising that they will reform and open up to world and end Iran isolation (something that they have not done in 40 years) and I TOTALLY reject that fictitious solution as it is contrary to regime's nature and so will most if not all of Iranians as is evident by risking their lives and opposing this regime. Enough with these political games. Iran nation will not be fooled anymore with these lies and games and will not stand by and see their country is totally destroyed by these mullahs who can only survive on hate and isolation.

The internet and bandwidth in Iran used to be fully controlled. The control still comes up from time to time, but that has changed in the past few years. Especially since Rouhani came to power. This is a big deal. The internet and information technology have created a new market in Iran. A market that the Iranian mullahs have very little power over. The fossil fuel industry is slowly fading and the supreme leader, Khamenei who will be turning 79 years old, only has a few years left. There is already a power struggle in the Guardian Council as to who will replace him. Believe it or not, there are some progressive and educated mullahs who have a chance of replacing Khamenei. Here is a good article in regards to some of the potential candidates.

I don't like the prospect of a war for obvious reasons. I also don't see any benefits of sanctions. In fact, Iran has been under heavy sanctions for quite some time. It has not benefited anyone except for the powers at the top. What economic sanctions end up doing is to isolate and prevent progress. Iran will always have Russia, China and many other emerging markets to trade with. This is if Europe is pressured into stopping their trading.

Now, your turn, can you tell me what your solution would be?

marcus · July 5, 2018

I believe that the Iranian people are capable of overcoming things like this:

New Conditions For Presidential Hopefuls, Makes 2021 Race Harder For Moderates

Iran’s Guardian Council, a watchdog that vets election candidates and ensures new laws comply with constitutional law, has set 11 new conditions on March 17 for those wishing to run for president in 2021.

Link

kactus · July 5, 2018

13 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Sorry kactus but you have not given a direct practical response.

You oppose and oppose but have not said what is the alternative to mullahs that can practically overthrow mullahs and take over and establish guaranteed democracy in Iran.

You said MEK is very bad. You oppose US military interference on the grounds that democracy cannot be exported and has to be developed from within Iran. All I see in your comments is opposition to proposed solutions but no proposed solution from you. Mullahs to stay in power is your solution? (not that you want this of course) until the time that they totally and completely destroy Iran and civil war breaks out? and amillion more die? And remember that disintegration probability increases every day they remain in power.

Please clarify one more time even if you say you have done so already, and with a very direct response. WHAT YOU PROPOSE IS BEST TO HAPPEN? since you are opposing everything I suggetsed. Are you saying it is best that mullahs remain in power? Since you already acknowledged they are not reformable?

The nation of Iran don't have bread (a desparate need for growing economy NOW). Please do not suggest that they should eat cake (wait for democracy) instead

The analogy of bread and cake to democracy is not applicable and has flaws.

Iran will never become a democracy post Ayatollahs if it involves US military action or MEK....I cannot be more vocal about this...It seems to me that you are advocating MEK.

My solution was in this post right at the bottom.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

You are both evading a direct question. None of you gentleman proposed an alternative to mullahs and it seems to me you advocate mullahs staying in power. as you both oppose all the alternatives. Opposing the US and Trump or MEK or US invasin is not prposing a solution.

I have preference and that is the returm of monarchy but what I want doesn't count since a solution has to be practical. The return of monarchy only possible if a democratic election is held in Iran under UN and that is impossible for mullahs to allow unless there is a US invasion which as I said is very unlikely or MEK take over and that is only if they allow free elections if they keep their promise to be democratic but in my view that is very unlikely too. But under MEK Iran will be China and under mullahs which I think you are advocating to stay Iran is North Korea in short term and will not exist in the long term and under monarchy Iran will become South Korea and Japan. So it is not hard to guess what my solution is.

My solution is ANYTHING but mullahs. What I want is Japan or South Korea (monarchy) but what I relunctantly prefer is China (MEK) over North Korea (mullahs) and what I do not want is status quo of North Korea leading to complete descruction of Iran.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

kactus · July 5, 2018

48 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You are both evading a direct question. None of you gentleman proposed an alternative to mullahs and it seems to me you advocate mullahs staying in power. as you both oppose all the alternatives. Opposing the US and Trump or MEK or US invasin is not prposing a solution.

I have preference and that is the returm of monarchy but what I want doesn't count since a solution has to be practical. The return of monarchy only possible if a democratic election is held in Iran under UN and that is impossible for mullahs to allow unless there is a US invasion which as I said is very unlikely or MEK take over and that is only if they allow free elections if they keep their promise to be democratic but in my view that is very unlikely too. But under MEK Iran will be China and under mullahs which I think you are advocating to stay Iran is North Korea in short term and will not exist in the long term and under monarchy Iran will become South Korea and Japan. So it is not hard to guess what my solution is.

My solution is ANYTHING but mullahs. What I want is Japan or South Korea (monarchy) but what I relunctantly prefer is China (MEK) over North Korea (mullahs) and what I do not want is status quo of North Korea leading to complete descruction of Iran.

....Once again, I reiterate I have proposed my solution which is change must be initiated by people....I have said this several times now! Unfortunately, there is no solution and quick fix to your liking and you are not receptive to other people's opinion and suggestions. One wrong decision to achieve democracy will have far greater consequences. I guess if you had your family members or loved ones inside Iran you wouldn't want them to becomes pawns in the military strikes....

The Tudeh elements of MEK are the same cults that advocated communism known by Shah as 'reds' and islamists 'blacks'...MEK are a bunch of rascals/ traitors and terrorists. They are the enemies of Iranians. I have no idea where you get your information from that reinstating MEK in power will somehow achieve miracles that resembles today's China! I am sorry to say this but that is a total hogwash no matter how much disdain one has for these god damn mullahs you cannot brush MEK's as progressives even relatively speaking...If there was a choice I would have loved Iranians to have a referendum on what type of government they like to have not to shovel them with stick (MEK) and stick again (western military invasion). Of course having a western friendly government and monarchy system works in favour of the nation of Iran and a win win scenario for everyone. That is a given. But this is not likely to happen. To achieve the means to re-establish democracy requires expertise and strategists to formulate the possible outcomes and scenarios. Frankly none of us are qualified to make a suggestion but one can look at the records of history of events in the last two decades post 9/11.... If the politics was that simple and one dimensional we could have achieved peace and democracy in every god damn country that was invaded...But we cannot and that's why the military model wouldn't work for other countries including Iran! Let's consider the military option shall we? The thing people fail to realise is that there must be a 'leverage' for US and western nation to liberate these countries. For Americans to deploy troops and machinery it costs money!!!! Consider all the countries that have been invaded. They have one common denominator and that is oil, political influence and financial implications. Look at Kuwait, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc. But did we ever think about going to Zimbabwe to get rid of that dictator Mugabe???? Nooooo! That didn't serve the interest. But let's look at the countries like Iraq and Libya that did serve the western interest. They are a total mess now. Before you react and reply consider the situation in Libya that is nowhere near Iran to excuse Ayatollah's meddling...Are you telling me that Libya today is the shining model of democracy Iran can emulate post mullahs!?!? Seriously!?!?

I do know for certain that having Iranian people on our side (which they clearly are) is the most important weapon the West can use to challenge the Ayatollahs...I do somehow find myself in agreement with Marcus that open free market and the access to social media is a great platform to reach an audience where 65% of population is under the age of 35! The Ayatollahs may censor certain sites to public for sure. But Iranians can access these sites by breaking the filters. You want to look at site censorship check out Mainland China! The irony is every god damn speech that comes out of the mouth of these Ayatollahs these days is raising the rate of inflation. They are digging their own graves by exacerbating the economics and financial situation in the country. Heck, that's why they are clergies and should stay in a place for worshipping not politics... This is why we are seeing the exponential drop in currency against dollars in the last few months. Young Iranians are exposed to all these information through social media and they certainly know where the source of the problem is.

Change for Iran now must Evolve not Revolve!

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

9 hours ago, kactus said:

. I guess if you had your family members or loved ones inside Iran you wouldn't want them to becomes pawns in the military strikes....

This argument is seriously flawed. And I guess if you had family members or loved ones inside Iran they are not being harmed right now??? Then you wouldn't mind seeing them beaten up or stabbed by regime thugs because they may not have a perfect hijab, or kidnapped from home and made suicide in jail or shot on streets because they may protest to mullahs or lose their wealth if they have home or car or saving by falling currency cut in half in 3 months or lose their jobs and go hungry or unable to pay for basic necessities because of rapid inflation or unable to send their children to school or unable to pay rent and become homeless or become a victim of regime repression and tortured or mudererd like many other Iranians or die from polluted air made poissonous by mullahs as many elderly die every winter or go thirsty because they destroyed rivers or lose their farms or if they are workers having unpaid wages and starve and widespread poverty??? I guess that they are all fine with all of above while mullahs ruling as we speak and that is why you worry about one in a million possibility that they may be harmed by the military strike, right? Incredible!!!!!!!!!!

9 hours ago, kactus said:

..I do somehow find myself in agreement with Marcus that open free market

So I guess 40 years of deception and political games by so called refomists wanting to open free market resulting in total failure (by the real powers) is not long enough for you and you wish to wait another40 years maybe they open free market? Well Iran does not have that luxury and will be totally destroyed by mullahs long before that. As I said it is easy to tell people who are burning inside the fire standing from outside to wait around till fire fighters arrive!!!!!

9 hours ago, kactus said:

.Change for Iran now must Evolve not Revolve!

There will be no Iran left by the time these mullahs evolve into humans.

We obviously agree to disagree but each to its own. I don't see a future for Iran with mullahs and I want a change now and I see that with new US administration this change has become a probability and would wish to take advantage of that because I believe it can't get any worse than mullacracy. You obviously differ and again each to its own.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

I totally agree with this article which I may as well attach to this post.

http://thehill.com/opinion/international/395625-iran-is-unsteady-on-the-inside-time-for-the-us-to-squeeze-from-the

we continue to deploy, such as our much-improved missile defenses and naval presence in the Persian Gulf region, the United States and our allies need to use whatever political, economic, diplomatic and commercial capabilities we have to help the people of Iran take the regime down themselves.

The Iranian currency is collapsing; capital flight is growing; the middle class is rebelling, as are minorities; and government repression has accelerated including beatings, jailing, extrajudicial executions, and arbitrary arrests.

Many thousands of Iranians are protesting in multiple cities and townships against regime-caused hardships, and the mullahs can only promise them “severe punishment.”

The choice before America and her allies is simple. Either help the people of Iran end the reign of the mullahs, or see a hegemon arise in the Middle East that is opposed to all our collective interests and security.

marcus · July 5, 2018

42 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I totally agree with this article which I may as well attach to this post.

http://thehill.com/opinion/international/395625-iran-is-unsteady-on-the-inside-time-for-the-us-to-squeeze-from-the

we continue to deploy, such as our much-improved missile defenses and naval presence in the Persian Gulf region, the United States and our allies need to use whatever political, economic, diplomatic and commercial capabilities we have to help the people of Iran take the regime down themselves.

The Iranian currency is collapsing; capital flight is growing; the middle class is rebelling, as are minorities; and government repression has accelerated including beatings, jailing, extrajudicial executions, and arbitrary arrests.

Many thousands of Iranians are protesting in multiple cities and townships against regime-caused hardships, and the mullahs can only promise them “severe punishment.”

Advocating for John Bolton and now for Peter Huessy.

Here are just some of his articles and advocacies: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Peter+Huessy

This guy is straight-up a pro-war hawk and certainly not a advocate for Iranian people. I am confused why you're so eager to push the policies of these war hawks.

Quote

The choice before America and her allies is simple. Either help the people of Iran end the reign of the mullahs, or see a hegemon arise in the Middle East that is opposed to all our collective interests and security.

According to Peter Huessy, what is U.S.' interests and what is he talking about when he brings up security? Do you question this?

Maybe you don't even know it, but you are pushing the neocon and zionist agenda by continuously supporting people like John Bolton and Peter Huessy.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

40 minutes ago, marcus said:

Advocating for John Bolton and now for Peter Huessy.

Here are just some of his articles and advocacies: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/author/Peter+Huessy

This guy is straight-up a pro-war hawk and certainly not a advocate for Iranian people. I am confused why you're so eager to push the policies of these war hawks.

According to Peter Huessy, what is U.S.' interests and what is he talking about when he brings up security? Do you question this?

Maybe you don't even know it, but you are pushing the neocon and zionist agenda by continuously supporting people like John Bolton and Peter Huessy.

Stop distorting what I say marcus. You lose the debate and then try to win it back by distorting everything I say?

I SAID I agree with article I attached (the content of article as is, which describes well the situation in Iran today and the state of the nation and rising protests and also talking about supporting Iranian people in their struggle for democracy and overthrow the regime) NOT Peter Huessy whoever he may be. The article I said I agree with says nothing about any military strike or invasion.

Talking about neocon and zionist agenda? For a second I thought the ayatollah speaking!!!!. I have no issues with zionists and Israel. I see them as friends of Iran and Iranians and Arabs as the enemy. They have done no harm to Iran and Iranians but Arabs have as recent as 1980 invasion into iran. My issue is with the plague republic of Iran not the whole world because they say so. The whole world would be a much better place without it and that is to everyone's INTEREST including the US.

It is clear what he talks about when he speaks about security. There is NO security for any citizen of the world especially if you are an American, an Israeli or an Iranian but for No one for as long as this regime is in power. They are trying to develop nuclear weapons and means to deliver them, They support muderous regimes around the world, they support the terrorists, even now training Taliban and shia fighters and send thugs abroad to murder any opposition that they may have. You need more reasons???? GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

marcus · July 5, 2018

27 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Stop distorting what I say marcus. You lose the debate and then try to win it back by distorting everything I say?

I lost the debate? What debate? Every time I questioned your comments, you would come back with "You are a Mullah supporter". That's not a debate.

I am not distorting anything. I am responding to your post where you say "I totally agree" with a guy who is a well known war hawk. Those are not your words. Those are the words of a guy who leads a so-called think tank which was an advocate of the Iraq war. But I guess that's okay to you, since you championed John Bolton for "getting rid of a dictator" in Iraq and blamed the mess in Iraq on Iran.

You need to understand that my dislike for the mullahs is not going to blind me and push me to advocate for every other alternative out there. Certainly not the neocon agenda, which is to divide and conquer. Which is to create division and chaos, that they have successfully done all over the Middle East.

You want to push for that agenda, go for it. You're not going to bully me or try to shame me through false stereotyping into accepting your one-sided, superficial view of the situation.

Edited July 5, 2018 by marcus

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

14 minutes ago, marcus said:

I lost the debate? What debate? Every time I questioned your comments, you would come back with "You are a Mullah supporter". That's not a debate.

I am not distorting anything. I am responding to your post from a guy who is a well known war hawk. A guy who leads a so-called think tank which was an advocate of the Iraq war. But I guess that's okay to you, since you championed John Bolton for "getting rid of a dictator" in Iraq and blamed the mess in Iraq on Iran.

You need to understand that my dislike for the mullahs is not going to blind me and push me to advocate for every other alternative out there. Certainly not the neocon agenda, which is to divide and conquer. Which is to create division and chaos, that they have successfully done all over the Middle East.

You want to push for that agenda, go for it. You're not going to bully me or try to shame me through false stereotyping into accepting your one-sided, superficial view of the situation.

You lost the debate when I rejected your proposals for this regime staying in power and reform when I responded with excellent reasons and historical facts that your proposed solution is deadly for Iran and Iranians as it will NEVER happen and how the regime real power block any shape of reform and open market and end of isolation, and you never responded back to my response proving otherwise.

You are accusing me of bullying you? Seriously!!!!! As long as shaming you is concerned, you shame yourself when you repeat word by word what mullahs are saying (like the US is behind the protests and disturbances in Iran or talking about zionist agenda in previous post!!!) and especially when you distort facts like attaching an article saying that US is arming the minorities in Iran so that the fight for independence from Iran last week whereas when those who take time and read the article realize that you lied as the article said the minority leaders have met with US intelligence as how to be armed and FIGHT the regime of mullahs, Not a word about fighting for independence.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

marcus · July 5, 2018

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You lost the debate when I rejected your proposals for this regime staying in power and reform when I responded with excellent reasons and historical facts that your proposed solution is deadly for Iran and Iranians as it will NEVER happen and how the regime real power block any shape of reform and open market and end of isolation, and you never responded back to my response.

"Excellent reasons" and "Historical facts".

You have quite the opinion of yourself.

Historical and current facts show that U.S./Israeli meddling has created chaos in the Middle East consistently in the past 50 years. Historical facts show that the U.S. does not give a fuck about the Iranian people and they would be just fine with chaos.

Your only argument is that Iranians will not allow chaos to happen, because they're not Arabs. That's what your "excellent reasoning" is.

Okay. You won the debate. You go on advocating for the neo-cons to intervene.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 5, 2018

52 minutes ago, marcus said:

"Excellent reasons" and "Historical facts".

You have quite the opinion of yourself.

Historical and current facts show that U.S./Israeli meddling has created chaos in the Middle East consistently in the past 50 years. Historical facts show that the U.S. does not give a fuck about the Iranian people and they would be just fine with chaos.

Your only argument is that Iranians will not allow chaos to happen, because they're not Arabs. That's what your "excellent reasoning" is.

Okay. You won the debate. You go on advocating for the neo-cons to intervene.

It was clear that I was referring to historical facts about mullahs' regime not reforming and open the market and end isolation as you propose the solution and you again distorted my saying to US causing chaos. As for disintegration not happening in Iran my reason was that all minorities share a 2500 year history and traditions during which they fought alongside each other and nobody wish to end that. I said Iran will not be a Syria or Lybia because Iran has a civilization that does not include burying daughters or killing neighbors and taking their wives. Who brought in the first charter of human rights and its tradition was based on good deeds, good thoughts and good talks.

Seriously I am done debating with you marcus especially when you use the four letter word in your response shows that you show no class and I am fed up with your selected responses and distortions. Long live Iran and Death to the enemies of Iran.

Edited July 5, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 6, 2018

Volcanic erruption in Iran:

https://www.upi.com/Iran-on-verge-of-political-volcanic-eruption/8341530791098/

The articles covers the state of discontent between Iranian nation and the repressive muderous regime of mullahs who are the cause of economic collapse, widespread poverty, destruction of the land, river and sea, isolation of iran and extreme repression, however it is wrong to assume MEK as a popular alternative to mullahs. Iran nation is desparate for a change and they wish their past glory of pre-islamic revolution (the 1979 coup by mullahs and their thugs) to be restored but MEK is not certainly a popular alternative to mullahs. Besides when Iranians have lions such as couragous defender of human rights and integrity Nasrin Sotoudeh why on earth they would choose Maryam Rajavi as the president???

In recent demonstrations many thousand risking their lives in spite of armed thugs attacking them and dozens shot dead by regime mercenaries, not one in the crowd of millions shouted for MEK. However, the name of Reza Pahlavi, the grandson of Reza Shah the great, the saver of Iran and son of the last Shah was shouted many times. IT IS NOW TIME FOR POPULAR REZA PAHLAVI LIVES UP TO HIS SWORN DUTY to help his nation to liberate Iran from this occupation in a practical manner by forming a government in exile as a viablle and popular alternative to this evil occupying regime. This will be a temporary government until Iranian nation can vote freely and under UN supervision as what form of government they wish and who they wish to govern.

The parts that I liked most in the article:

Of course, the mullahs reacted to the crisis in their usual, time-honored fashion, sending in the regime's gestapo, the Sepah who gunned down dozens in the streets and arrested over 8,000 protesters, 14 of whom have been tortured to death in prison. But the brutal crackdown has only served to deepen public hatred of the regime and to harden resolve for its ultimate overthrow.

It is time the EU condemned this brutality. It is time they adopted effective measures to compel the regime to release the prisoners of the uprising and to stop the arbitrary use of torture and the death penalty. Iran now carries out more than half of all executions worldwide and many of these involve political prisoners and people who oppose the regime.

Edited July 7, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 7, 2018

The world's largest shipping company pulls out of Iran. The mullahs have to now export their oil (whose income pays the mercenary guards and basij) using donkeys and camels!!!!

http://en.rfi.fr/20180707-french-shippping-firm-pulls-out-iran-over-trump-sanctions

The regime is on its way out hopefully sooner than later and Iran and its nation will be liberated soon Thanks to Trump.

The United States owns Iran nation that much at least as the nation may be in this mess because of US action in 1953 when they staged a coup to topple the elected government in Iran. Not to mention the actions by peanut brain president Carter who helped the rioters in 1979 to stage a successful coup against the Shah.

Edited July 7, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

GostHacked · July 7, 2018

On 7/5/2018 at 7:30 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Seriously I am done debating with you marcus especially when you use the four letter word in your response shows that you show no class and I am fed up with your selected responses and distortions. Long live Iran and Death to the enemies of Iran.

It's mainly because you are not consistent in you posts, you said I was wrong, then you proved me right with other posts. This is what is causing you problems when posting anything to take a stance.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 7, 2018

2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

It's mainly because you are not consistent in you posts, you said I was wrong, then you proved me right with other posts. This is what is causing you problems when posting anything to take a stance.

I have been consistent in all my posts if you read them carefully. You said US is trying to change Iran regime and I said the US would like to see a regime change in Iran but the change attempt is being taken place by brave Iran nation, The brave women and men who risk their lives every day and show their opposition to this brutal regime in various ways. So you think that so many Iranian females showing up in Russia for world cup without the damn hated hijab imposed by this backward regime was just a coincident? Do you thing so many hundreds of thousands of brave citizens calling for an end to islamic regime (the plague republic) on Iranian streets were paid by the US and CIA? That is what you and marcus was implying and I strongly opposed t that. You retracted from your comments later saying that you said that US wants to see a regime change not doing it directly (like they did in 1953) but the other guy never did that.

Edited July 7, 2018 by CITIZEN_2015

CITIZEN_2015 · July 7, 2018

Prostitute goverments of EU, Russia and China beware.

On another note this article confirms my worst fear. The regime is ready to kill as many as they can for survival.

http://www.news-gazette.com/opinion/editorials/2018-07-07/editorial-growing-protests-iran.html

The prostitute governments in EU must know that Iran nation will take them accountable if in any way they support this brutal regime and this is a direct message to Mogherini who has gone to bed with traitors and muderer collaborators like Zarif for money. What happens to your human rights beliefs you prostitutes? They do all this while reading about people being shot on streets by this regime, people tortured to death in jails and people arrested arbitrarily without triall for simply being a lawyer or defending rights. SHAME ON THESE PROSTITUTE EU politicians who ignore gross human right violations and sleep with most murderous people for oil money. SHAME.

GostHacked · July 7, 2018

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I have been consistent in all my posts if you read them carefully. You said US is trying to change Iran regime and I said the US would like to see a regime change in Iran but the change attempt is being taken place by brave Iran nation,

I never retracted anything. And yes you have contradicted yourself several times. But if you don't think the CIA would take advantage of that like they did with the 'Arab Spring' then you are quite ignorant. And I have documented here on this forum (somewhere) the terror attacks upon Iran by Israel and the USA. The CIA tried once and it really failed.

Hey I am all for positive change in Iran if it is genuine and from the people of Iran. But I have a feeling just like other nations that have been crushed under the USA's war on terror, Iran is going to suffer more than it needs to in order to bring proper change around. And once there is some strife between the gov and Iranians on the whole then you will see even more talk of regime change in Iran. The

On 6/27/2018 at 4:42 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

And again I have to correct you that it is not US and Israel and Saudi Arabia who have been wanting a regime change in Iran.

And your contradiction(s) ....

On 6/29/2018 at 5:41 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The US tightens screws on Iran regime as Iranians start shouting Long Live America on streets of Tehran. The slogan that "Our enemy is right here and they lie and say it is America has changed to "Our enemy is right here - Long Live America" recently!!!!.

On 7/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Thank you for the clarifications. Yes indeed the trio want a regime change of course like everyone else but it is the Iranian nation who are risking their lives every day battling the mercenaries of most brutal regime in history to make that change without any outside government ordering them to do so or paying them to do so. That is crystal clear.