Venezuela??

[hot enough]

16 minutes ago, cannuck said:

The USA is causing the grief in Venezuela??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoke with our associates who just returned from DC.  There will be no sanctions for the time being.   While Chavez stole the business of Americans (and Venezuelans) by the BILLION$$ to fund the Bolivarian Revolution, the US not only allowed PDVSA (Venezuela's state owned oil company) to continue to own and operate 100% of Citgo, ripping billions a year out of the US to pay for even more of the Bolivarian Revolution, but it continued to allow US companies to buy Venezuelan crude - that continues to fund the Bolivarian Revolution.

So, I guess I have to agree with Hot Enough, the USA is indeed behind the troubles of Vietnam - as it has largely funded Chavez and Maduro (since 95% of all Venezuela export is petro).

You have conveniently skipped over the part where the US/CIA has been causing all the troubles in Venezuela for decades, just as it has been doing the same thing in Chile, Cuba, Nicaragua, Guatemala, ... . 

You also seem to forget that it is the CHOICE of the country that owns the wealth to dispose of that wealth as they see fit. Name any country that has been stealing the wealth of the US, except for the US itself, from the Native Americans it has been committing a two plus centuries long genocide  against. 

[cannuck]

1 minute ago, hot enough said:

You have conveniently skipped over the part where the US/CIA has been causing all the troubles in Venezuela for decades, just as it has been doing the same thing in Chile, Cuba, Nicaragua, Guatemala, ... . 

You also seem to forget that it is the CHOICE of the country that owns the wealth to dispose of that wealth as they see fit. Name any country that has been stealing the wealth of the US, except for the US itself, from the Native Americans it has been committing a two plus centuries long genocide  against. 

Yes, those nasty Yanks caused all that troublesome economic prosperity that Venezuela had before it went of the left deep end of the socialist pool.

And YES, it is indeed the choice of the country that owns the wealth to do as it sees fit...it is just that the PEOPLE of Venezuela chose Chavez with a very different idea of where the wealth of the nation was going to go.  Instead of into the hands of government agencies for the good of the people, it did, as in the case of EVERY socialist and communist country ended up in the hands of Chavez, Maduro, the Generals and all kinds of hangers-on who have never done a lick of work to earn it.

[hot enough]

19 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Yes, those nasty Yanks caused all that troublesome economic prosperity that Venezuela had before it went of the left deep end of the socialist pool.

 

Terrorism, in case you haven't noticed, is a major crime, one, for which the US has already been convicted, the only nation ever to have been convicted. 

Quote

And YES, it is indeed the choice of the country that owns the wealth to do as it sees fit...it is just that the PEOPLE of Venezuela chose Chavez with a very different idea of where the wealth of the nation was going to go.  Instead of into the hands of government agencies for the good of the people, it did, as in the case of EVERY socialist and communist country ended up in the hands of Chavez, Maduro, the Generals and all kinds of hangers-on who have never done a lick of work to earn it.

Even if this was true, tell me how would that differ from the US raping and pillaging countries all over the world. Hawaii, Guam, the Marshall Islands, Guatemala, Cuba, Ecuador, Chile, Nicaragua, various African nations, Korea, ... . 

Isn't the US supposed to be the land that advances free enterprise, free markets, free and open competition. Raping and pillaging lands is none of those things. 

Did you miss this? 

https://www.counterpunch.org/2007/11/28/cia-venezuela-destabilization-memo-surfaces/

NOVEMBER 28, 2007

CIA Venezuela Destabilization Memo Surfaces

by JAMES PETRAS

On November 26, 2007 the Venezuelan government broadcast and circulated a confidential memo from the US embassy to the CIA which is devastatingly revealing of US clandestine operations and which will influence the referendum this Sunday, December 2, 2007.

The memo sent by an embassy official, Michael Middleton Steere, was addressed to the Director of Central Intelligence, Michael Hayden. The memo was entitled ‘Advancing to the Last Phase of Operation Pincer’ and updates the activity by a CIA unit with the acronym ‘HUMINT’ (Human Intelligence) which is engaged in clandestine action to destabilize the forth-coming referendum and coordinate the civil military overthrow of the elected Chavez government. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by hot enough

[cannuck]

You don't get it at all, do you?   NO country is lily white and blameless for a great deal of things, but the solution is NOT to impoverish the nation, starve the people and reward a handful of elites for their treachery.   What the US did in the past or other places has NOTHING TO DO with what is happening in Venezuela today.

[hot enough]

20 minutes ago, cannuck said:

You don't get it at all, do you?   NO country is lily white and blameless for a great deal of things, but the solution is NOT to impoverish the nation, starve the people and reward a handful of elites for their treachery.  

You obviously don't get it, cannuck. That is a lame lame excuse. It never worked for WWII war criminals except for the few who made their case that the US had done the same things, and then, instead of arresting those US war criminals, the cases were quietly dropped.

Typical US hypocrisy. 

The solution in a just and fair world would be to have the US prosecuted for their myriad war crimes, specifically, in this case, for their decades long terrorist actions against Venezuela and Cuba and Guatemala and Vietnam and Korea and ... . How would you like to be a Korean citizen who has had generations terrorized by the USA? Or the Cambodians, Vietnamese, Chileans, ... ?

Quote

What the US did in the past or other places has NOTHING TO DO with what is happening in Venezuela today.

What the US has done to Venezuela in the past and what it is doing today is the only thing relevant. Terrorism is an international crime, and it is the height of irony that it is largely the doing of the USA. 

[cannuck]

The only terrorism going on in Venezuela is being perpetrated by the leadership and military of Venezuela.

You are clinging to these idiotic dillusions, I am simply listening to people in Venezuela that I have known for many years.

[hot enough]

38 minutes ago, cannuck said:

The only terrorism going on in Venezuela is being perpetrated by the leadership and military of Venezuela.

Talk about delusions. You don't really think that the US/CIA isn't involved, hasn't been involved in all this going back to whenever. You know better than John Stockwell, the top ex CIA who possesses the honesty, the humanity to expose all this. Come on, cannuck, really?

Quote

You are clinging to these idiotic dillusions, I am simply listening to people in Venezuela that I have known for many years.

Yeah, we know that the US has been exemplary in their behavior in Latin America, so much so that Latin American countries formed their own OAS banning the US, Canada and some equally predatory European nations. Why would they do that?

Community of Latin American and Caribbean States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Latin_American_and_Caribbean_States

[cannuck]

So:  the CIA is ... ah... it's just not worth the effort.  You have absolutely no connection with reality.

[hot enough]

37 minutes ago, cannuck said:

So:  the CIA is ... ah... it's just not worth the effort.  You have absolutely no connection with reality.

You could at least be honest enough to acknowledge all these realities that say the USA has been doing this in earnest since the late 1800s. To suggest that this is all my idea, that this is just me describing all this US terrorism is simply ludicrous. Talking about no connection to reality. 

"Prominent left-wing leaders in the bloc praised the founding of the organization as a step towards separating Latin America from the United States with Evo Morales, President of Bolivia saying "A union of Latin American countries is the weapon against imperialism. It is necessary to create a regional body that excludes the United States and Canada. ... it is the best time for prime ministers of Latin America and the Caribbean to gestate this great new organization without the United States to free our peoples in Latin America and the Caribbean.""

You can't possibly think that all these peoples and countries did something like this for no reason at all. Is Evo Morales lying, is he making up stories of what these Latin Ameican countries have suffered under US colonialism, which is much better described by raping and pillaging?

Do you suggest that I made up the idea that the UNGA has been condemning the USA for the last 1/4 century 198 votes to 2 [Israel and US] for its terrorism against Cuba. Canada Included! Why the hell hasn't there been Canadian, Germany, UK, Belgium, France, and 193 odd countries' sanctions against the US for all these years? Russia gets them when they fart!

Edited August 12, 2017 by hot enough

[cannuck]

clearly a return to some good old fasion Yankee imperialism would be one hell of a lot better for the people than any Bolivarian Revolution.

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

clearly a return to some good old fasion Yankee imperialism would be one hell of a lot better for the people than any Bolivarian Revolution.

It's not imperialism, it's gangsterism and terrorism, both of which are illegal and highly amoral.

Yeah, another tens of millions slaughtered, hundreds of millions more with lives destroyed, millions more refugees all to line rich Americans' pockets. What a grand idea!

I wonder why so many westerners have no moral base. It is highly perplexing. 

[hot enough]

For Kerist's sakes, the phuckin' US is actively committing terrorism against Venezuela. Yet another RPODT US president. 

Donald Trump threatens Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro with military action

12 AUGUST 2017 • 1:38AM

Donald Trump said last night he was considering possible military action against Venezuela in response to Nicolas Maduro's power grab.

Mr Trump told reporters at his New Jersey golf course that he was "not going to rule out" a military option".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/donald-trump-threatens-venezuelas-nicolas-maduro-military-option/

[betsy]

11 hours ago, cannuck said:

The USA is causing the grief in Venezuela??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoke with our associates who just returned from DC.  There will be no sanctions for the time being. 

 

 

Quote

 

U.S. slaps sanctions on Venezuelan president Maduro

Beginning on Monday, all of the Venezuelan's president's assets that are subject to U.S. jurisdiction will be frozen. All U.S. citizens are also barred from dealing with him, according to Treasury.

Maduro is one of a handful of heads of state to be sanctioned by the U.S. government. He follows in the footsteps of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, North Korea's Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un, Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe, former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic, and Manuel Noriega, who was a military dictator of Panama.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/31/news/economy/treasury-venezuela-president-sanctions/index.html

 

According to latest news, Maduro wants to meet with Trump.

Edited August 12, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

11 hours ago, hot enough said:

For Kerist's sakes, the phuckin' US is actively committing terrorism against Venezuela. Yet another RPODT US president. 

Donald Trump threatens Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro with military action

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/donald-trump-threatens-venezuelas-nicolas-maduro-military-option/

 

And here's the blatant evidence that Hot Enough doesn't know what he's talking about.  When he talks about "US terrorism,"  all you can do, is this:

 

Maduro grabs power.....and terrorizes his own people.  Venezuelans are starving!  Grocery shelves are empty. The country is spiralling down to chaos.

Being neighbors, the US steps in to try to help Venezuelans. 

....and hot enough says it's the US that's now the terrorist to Venezuela!

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by betsy

[cannuck]

3 hours ago, betsy said:

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/31/news/economy/treasury-venezuela-president-sanctions/index.html

 

According to latest news, Maduro wants to meet with Trump.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.   there are no sanctions against Venezuela,.   That does not mean Maduro!

[betsy]

31 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Sorry, I should have been more specific.   there are no sanctions against Venezuela,.   That does not mean Maduro!

 

It's Maduro who causes the problem........he grabbed power, and installed himself dictator. 

Why would Venezuela be punished?   I hope not.  Why would there be a sanction against Venezuela?

Edited August 12, 2017 by betsy

[cannuck]

19 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

It's Maduro who causes the problem........he grabbed power, and installed himself dictator. 

Why would Venezuela be punished?   Why would there be a sanction against Venezuela?

You are asking the right question, just sorry I have been posting on the fly and leaving out a lot of detail

Maduro has (mostly) control of the means of production of the country (which means PDVSA, 70% of whole economy, 95% of all exports).   There are those who still have  power who are blocking some of Maduro and the Generals activities, but not all.    Sanctioning PDVSA would end cash flow to them, but that is also the only source of money to Venezuela to try to survive as a society.  It must have been a difficult decision for Washington as to how to deal with that.   I am glad they got the message first hand as to who is able to do what, and decided to leave PDVSA alone.

[drummindiver]

18 hours ago, hot enough said:

Talk about delusions. You don't really think that the US/CIA isn't involved, hasn't been involved in all this going back to whenever. You know better than John Stockwell, the top ex CIA who possesses the honesty, the humanity to expose all this. Come on, cannuck, really?

Yeah, we know that the US has been exemplary in their behavior in Latin America, so much so that Latin American countries formed their own OAS banning the US, Canada and some equally predatory European nations. Why would they do that?

Community of Latin American and Caribbean States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Latin_American_and_Caribbean_States

You LOVE LOVE LOVE ex CIA who confirm your confirmation bias. Hate the rest.  

For the greater good!

[drummindiver]

19 hours ago, hot enough said:

Terrorism, in case you haven't noticed, is a major crime, one, for which the US has already been convicted, the only nation ever to have been convicted. 

 

You have a cite for this statement?

[hot enough]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:42 PM, drummindiver said:

You have a cite for this statement?

Nicaragua vs the USA 1986

I'm not the least bit surprised at your level of ignorance, drummindiver.

[drummindiver]

1 hour ago, hot enough said:

Nicaragua vs the USA 1986

I'm not the least bit surprised at your level of ignorance, drummindiver.

Where's the cite?

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

Where's the cite?

I knew that you would be your usual deceptive, say nothing self. Are you really this incompetent? [rhetorical question]

[drummindiver]

11 minutes ago, hot enough said:

I knew that you would be your usual deceptive, say nothing self. Are you really this incompetent? [rhetorical question]

Again, no cite. Forum rules dictate you provide one when requested. 

I'm very aware of what happened. I'm also very aware that you cannot provide a cite.

[hot enough]

9 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

 

I'm very aware of what happened.

Then why are you being so obstinate? [Rhetorical question]

[drummindiver]

1 minute ago, hot enough said:

Then why are you being so obstinate? [Rhetorical question]

Cite please.