DogOnPorch Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Ok let's go one by one: Britain and France militarily occupied much of the middle-east after WWI following collapse of the Ottoman empire. Then you have all the nonsense with Britain, the US, Canada, etc. involved in and/or supporting Israel within Israel/Palestine for the last 100 years (which Arabs don't like, but that's another debate entirely). 1991 Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan War 2001-now, Iraq since 2003 (yes, Canada is fighting there as we speak), plus Syria as well as Libya since 2011-ish. As a part of the above wars, plus drone strikes in numerous ME countries for over a decade now. British/US-CIA coup in Iran in 1953, the West trying to get rid of Assad (in the name of "human rights" LOL), US supported Saddam in the 80's during Iran-Iraq war...then removed him in 2003, Taliban coup (aka regime change) after 9/11. We support the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia since the 60's if not beforehand (what about those human rights?), Shah of Iran from 1953-1979, plus however else fits our fancy. Iraq/Afghanistan wars etc. All these things you bring-up are Zero-Sum. Islam threw the first punch. Islam as a political force also didn't have to side with Germany in both World Wars. But it so zealously did. Also: your history is flawed if you think the CIA put the Shah on the throne. Edited June 8, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 35 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: That is certainly part of the reason, like I said religion plays a large role. What I'm saying is that radical interpretations of Islam combined with western military intervention in the ME has been what has led Muslim terrorists to attack us. The problem with that theory is that they were attacking us well before any serious intervention ever occurred. The heart of their anger, at first, was that we prevented them from slaughtering all the Jews. It was necessary to blame us, you understand, rather than try to explain to themselves how a few million Jews fought them to a standstill, then kicked their asses. It was the ongoing attacks on us and our interests which led to the more serious interventions. In reality, the West would like nothing better than a stable Middle east full of freedom loving democracies. What it seeks to avoid is a middle east full of fanatical anti-Western governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) On 6/7/2017 at 10:36 AM, Hal 9000 said: Maybe you people have a point, if saying you have an allegiance to ISIS makes you a nutjob, don't we have a right under law to round up all the "nutjobs" and institutionalize them. This seems like a pretty good tactic. Considering England now has 23,000 known "nutjobs" on their radar, it should make dealing with this issue a little easier. What if these people have an affinity to what ISIS might actually be saying? You hear what ISIS "says" from who? The propaganda meisters, that's who! The same people who lied their asses off and illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. The same people who are terrorizing the people of Libya, Syria, Ukraine, ... . The same people who have terrorized and slaughtered tens of millions over the last 75 years. What if ISIS is saying, " we don't want you westerners in our countries, stealing our wealth, killing our children, our friends and relatives, raping our women, ... ? "Oh, but they behead people!!!" No different than what the US sponsored Indonesian military thugs and other private thugs did to 750,000 Indonesians while the US made up death lists and passed them on, checking off folks' names as they were beheaded, dismembered alive, garroted, had heated pokers shoved up their orifices, ... . Wash, rinse, repeat in myriad other countries. Edited June 8, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted June 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Argus said: The problem with that theory is that they were attacking us well before any serious intervention ever occurred. What terrorist attacks against us were these specifically, when are you saying they began? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: What terrorist attacks against us were these specifically, when are you saying they began? You can go back to the 70s and 80s with airliner hijackings and bombings if you like. I mean, a Swissair flight was blown up by a bomb set by the PLO in 1970. The bombing of the US embassy in Kenya was in 1998, the attack on the USS Cole was in 2000. And of course, the 911 attacks in 2001. There were many more, of course. Abu Nidal and his group were operating in Europe into the nineties, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 16 hours ago, hot enough said: What if ISIS is saying, " we don't want you westerners in our countries, stealing our wealth, killing our children, our friends and relatives, raping our women, ... ? Because that's THEIR job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Argus said: You can go back to the 70s and 80s with airliner hijackings and bombings if you like. I mean, a Swissair flight was blown up by a bomb set by the PLO in 1970. The bombing of the US embassy in Kenya was in 1998, the attack on the USS Cole was in 2000. And of course, the 911 attacks in 2001. There were many more, of course. Abu Nidal and his group were operating in Europe into the nineties, I believe. That's not "us". Those were attacks on US interests by people who were tired of US murders and predatory behavior. Some could well have been more Operation Gladio. The US/UK wasn't bothered by blowing up folks in European countries, hell the US and the UK have never been shy about the wholesale murder of innocents, so why do you think they would be now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 16 minutes ago, Argus said: Because that's THEIR job? You don't know anything about them at all save for what you hear from the world's biggest liars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 minute ago, hot enough said: That's not "us". Those were attacks on US interests by people who were tired of US murders and predatory behavior. Including the Swiss? What did the Swiss ever do to the middle east? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: You don't know anything about them at all save for what you hear from the world's biggest liars. You mean the press, or you mean... themselves? It's not like they hide it when they behead charity workers they've captured, or set prisoners on fire in a cage, or set up a slave market for little girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Argus said: Including the Swiss? What did the Swiss ever do to the middle east? Both you and I would have to do some research to answer that, but it doesn't detract from the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Why we hate you and why we fight you. 1. We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices. It is for this reason that we were commanded to openly declare our hatred for you and our enmity towards you. “There has already been for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, ‘Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone’” (Al-Mumtahanah 4). Furthermore, just as your disbelief is the primary reason we hate you, your disbelief is the primary reason we fight you, as we have been commanded to fight the disbelievers until they submit to the authority of Islam, either by becoming Muslims, or by paying jizyah – for those afforded this option – and living in humiliation under the rule of the Muslims. Thus, even if you were to stop fighting us, your best-case scenario in a state of war would be that we would suspend our attacks against you – if we deemed it necessary – in order to focus on the closer and more immediate threats, before eventually resuming our campaigns against you. Apart from the option of a temporary truce, this is the only likely scenario that would bring you fleeting respite from our attacks. So in the end, you cannot bring an indefinite halt to our war against you. At most, you could only delay it temporarily. “And fight them until there is no fitnah [paganism] and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah” (Al-Baqarah 193). 2. We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power. In doing so, you desire to rob Allah of His right to be obeyed and you wish to usurp that right for yourselves. “Legislation is not but for Allah” (Yusuf 40). Your secular liberalism has led you to tolerate and even support “gay rights,” to allow alcohol, drugs, fornication, gambling, and usury to become widespread, and to encourage the people to mock those who denounce these filthy sins and vices. As such, we wage war against you to stop you from spreading your disbelief and debauchery – your secularism and nationalism, your perverted liberal values, your Christianity and atheism – and all the depravity and corruption they entail. You’ve made it your mission to “liberate” Muslim societies; we’ve made it our mission to fight off your influence and protect mankind from your misguided concepts and your deviant way of life. http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2016/07/31/isis-why-we-hate-you-why-we-fight-you/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: That's not "us". Those were attacks on US interests by people who were tired of US murders and predatory behavior. Some could well have been more Operation Gladio. The US/UK wasn't bothered by blowing up folks in European countries, hell the US and the UK have never been shy about the wholesale murder of innocents, so why do you think they would be now? You obviously weren't alive and flying commercial airlines in the 1970s. Islam was the big pill then, too. Take this plane to Cuba...or Entebbe...or KABOOM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1974) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_330 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Argus said: It's not like they hide it when they behead charity workers they've captured, or set prisoners on fire in a cage, or set up a slave market for little girls. Whereas the US/UK does hide their equally gruesome activities like in Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Chile, the Philippines, Cuba, Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, ... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Argus said: Why we hate you and why we fight you.alues, your Christianity and atheism – and all the depravity and corruption they entail. You’ve made it your mission to “liberate” Muslim societies; we’ve made it our mission to fight off your influence and protect mankind from your misguided concepts and your deviant way of life. http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2016/07/31/isis-why-we-hate-you-why-we-fight-you/ All the very things that we see repeated by the easily duped. And not a mention of the illegal invasions, the murders of millions of their kith and kin, the theft of their wealth, ... . They have always hated all these things, just as many christians do. Pretty convenient that they describe exactly what the US memes describe to their sheeple. Here is a truthful Iraqi lady who has had to endure the evil of the US/UK for a good portion of her life. Quote Vomiting PerfidyBy Layla Anwar September 2, 2010 "Arab Woman Blues" - -Since yesterday I have been vomiting my insides out... My first bout of vomit came after I read a transcript of your President's speech, his speech to the "nation". Because you consider yourselves a nation ?! It started off with an uneasiness felt in the pit of my stomach, then quickly transformed itself into a queasiness, then into a foul nausea, only to erupt like a dammed out volcano into violent throes of pure vomit... I have over the past 20 years or so, developed a high intolerance to perfidy and you throughout your history have excelled in perfecting what I am most allergic to... You literally make me sick. Change - you clamored like a herd of sheep, while munching, ruminating like cattle every word that is fed to you...Black and White, even those retards who call themselves American Arabs and Muslims rejoiced at Uncle Tom's arrival to the White House. Oh the "principled", "moralistic" prudish puritanical perverts called Americans, always showing up late for change...always jumping on the bandwagon, when the train has already passed... The peace loving war mongers of the new world order is what you are. Fake and ignorant to the bone. So you pride yourselves on being "a good people", a "compassionate" "sharing caring hugging" people -- nothing but Perfidy. For 20 years, I witnessed my country, the land of my father, my mother, my ancestors, disintegrate before my very eyes...20 fucking years. 20 fucking years. Twenty years of people -- first withering, wilting away, like flowers never allowed to see the light, never allowed to turn their faces to the sun, then from fading into shadows, faltering into a colorless background...bombed, massacred, slaughtered into a nothingness...the same nothingness that inhabits you daily...the same nothingness that makes you rush to your shrink, the same nothingness that you feed with your junk, the same nothingness that you fill with your consumer products...the same nothingness of your void, of the pit, the deep pit that you all live in, and I throw up some more, from the pits of my belly.... So you "sacrificed" for us, so you liberated us from "tyranny", so you "lived up to your responsibilities" --- like you did in Falluja, Haditha, Mahmoudiya, Baghdad, Basra, Mosul, Ramadi...¨"kill the motherfuckers" you shouted...and your wives masturbated to your love letters, or shed a few tears while waving that infamous flag...the flag of a degenerate, decaying country that has offered nothing but murder, carnage and mayhem... You liberated us from "dictatorship" with 5 times the size of a Hiroshima and a Nagasaki...you liberated us until there was no space left in our morgues, and 7 and half years later, we still search for the dead...you liberated us until our streets turned into pools of blood, and mosques became torture dungeons where those hajjis were having their eyes plucked out and their flesh drilled, you liberated us so we can be abducted, raped and murdered for a 1000$ or for wearing lipstick...you liberated us so our bodies can float on the Tigris and Euphrates, mutilated unrecognizable...you liberated us alright...stuffing us in prisons cells, covering us with your piss and excrements, or handing us to your mercenaries and your pimps and whores in turbans, while you fucked the prostitutes specially brought to you in your Green Fortress... and while the rest of us lived in walled ghettos that you constructed for us... You liberated us alright...and you lived up to your principles, your ideals and your responsibilities... ... http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26291.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 minute ago, hot enough said: All the very things that we see repeated by the easily duped. And not a mention of the illegal invasions, the murders of millions of their kith and kin, the theft of their wealth, ... . Actually, by far the great majority of those who died in the Middle East died at the hands of their fellows, not the West. 1 minute ago, hot enough said: Here is a truthful Iraqi lady who has had to endure the evil of the US/UK for a good portion of her life. I am sure there are individual iraqis who hate the Americans, just like you do. But we were discussing the motivation for terrorism as expressed by the terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Islam is its own country/nation. Anywhere it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Argus said: Actually, by far the great majority of those who died in the Middle East died at the hands of their fellows, not the West. That is patently false. And you know it. Quote I am sure there are individual iraqis who hate the Americans, just like you do. But we were discussing the motivation for terrorism as expressed by the terrorists. Typical diversion, typical cheap shots by intellectual cowards who act just like little Joe McCarthys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Quote But we were discussing the motivation for terrorism as expressed by the terrorists. The terrorists are the US/UK/Canada/Australia/... because these were illegal invasions, the ultimate war crime. Quote In the judgment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 7 hours ago, hot enough said: That is patently false. And you know it. That is absolutely true according to the UN and virtually every other organization monitoring the deaths in the middle east. 7 hours ago, hot enough said: Typical diversion, typical cheap shots by intellectual cowards who act just like little Joe McCarthys. What has this reply got to do with what you replied to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 6/6/2017 at 5:52 PM, The_Squid said: Should every disturbed nutjob get national headlines? Your reply disturbs me. The liberal fake and phony far left media will protect anyone like her and her Islamic ilk who do disturbing things like this. I wonder if that had been some white person doing the same thing would the media stay quiet about it? You know dam well they would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 7:49 AM, DogOnPorch said: At least one doesn't have to travel any great distance to get knocked over the head by an ISIS supporter. Right down the block at the CanTire. Convenience! Islam makes it easier everyday to get enriched. Isn't it just great that our fearless leader PM JT just loves those radical Islamic terrorists? He must because he keeps bringing them on in by the thousands. The western countries and their foolish leaders sure do want to make it easy for all these radical islamic terrorists to kill us infidels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 9:30 AM, Boges said: Not saying that. All I'm saying is that when Whitey does some act of mass violence he's a lone wolf with mental health issues. The way this woman conducted herself, I suspect mental health is more at play than anything. No, it has more to do with radical islamic terrorism at play here. She is not mental. She knows what she is doing. It is just the bleeding heart liberals in this country that always want to down play what these terrorists are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, taxme said: No, it has more to do with radical islamic terrorism at play here. She is not mental. She knows what she is doing. It is just the bleeding heart liberals in this country that always want to down play what these terrorists are doing. That you aren't fit for jury duty pretty much says it all about you as a "citizen". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 4 hours ago, hot enough said: That you aren't fit for jury duty pretty much says it all about you as a "citizen". Do the words "you can't handle the truth" bother you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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