Why Trust the Bible?

[betsy]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I get my impression of what he's like from people like you.  Sort of how I get my impression of what Israel stands for from Rue.

 

But of course, I'm human - a creation.  Israel isn't God either.  It's a nation or a people - merely His creation.

The impression you get from me, or any of His creation,  will only be a very small fraction of what He actually, is.

  If we don't even have the capacity to understand how He thinks, nor have any real understanding of His ways.......basing your impression on us and within the same context as you'd claimed to understand what Trump stands for,  you can't  really say you "know what He stands for."   

He gave us some understanding of Him thru the Bible.

The fact that so many non-believers who cite the Old Testament see Him as a, "maniacal murderer,"  is evidence for that despite having the Scriptures!   They based their judgement on the Scriptures that obviously they didn't fully understand.

Edited May 28, 2017 by betsy

[JamesHackerMP]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

I get my impression of what he's like from people like you.  Sort of how I get my impression of what Israel stands for from Rue.

Good one.

Betsy, as with any religion there is leeway to interpret the Bible.  You may not think so, but there are a plethora of Christian sects in the world; all of them disagreeing with each other on their interpretation of it.  Part of the reason for this is that there are not really any 100% authoritative texts that exist.  The oldest manuscripts, the ones considered the most accurate, are each a copy of a copy of a copy. 

This doesn't make the Christian message bullshit, but it does leave--as I said above--leeway for the interpretation of that message.  And at the end of the day, it's a matter of faith.

[taxme]

On 5/27/2017 at 2:53 AM, betsy said:

 

That depends. 

It's not all "up to interpretations."  Interpretations will have to be consistent, and not in any way contradict anything in the Scriptures, otherwise it's false interpretation.  In-depth study of the Bible is actually necessary to help you discern true from false interpretations.

  I recommend a  KJV Bible-Study Bible.  The one I have also includes explanation about customs of the time that's reflected on particular verses.

 

Furthermore, some statements in the Bible that appeared to be figures of speech, turned out that they can be taken literally (after having been reaffirmed by science).

 

It all boils down to your true purpose why you read the Bible. 

Btw, out of curiousity......why did you read the Bible?  What were you hoping to gain?

 

 

I actually never read the bibIe nor cared to even try. I took an interest in what the bible had to say after I read a book called The Chariots of Fire. I liked what the book had to say, and I went with it because it made more sense to me than what I was forced to listen too when I was forced to go to church in my youth. I would sit in church and had to listen to some preacher who was trying to convince me that I had better be good or else I will go to hell. And in order for me not too end up going to hell I had to go to church. The preacher must have wanted my money too help keep his church and religious lies going. I think that god could have done a better job of trying to explain things and convince people if he had just wrote it all in plain English. The bible is just to confusing to try to make heads or tails out of what it says.  

I don't believe that there is anything to gain from reading the bible. 

 

 

 

[taxme]

On 5/27/2017 at 3:00 AM, betsy said:

 

I look forward to your future questions.  Hopefully, my replies would  actually be addressed, and discussed........

........not to be simply met with deflection, and ignored,  like as if no point was presented at all.

 

While I understand how a skeptic or an outright non-believer would want more "convincing," ( I surely hope performing miracles is not the kind of convincing  expected from me, nor the actual appearance by God, required).......

 

.............while I don't mind questions at all,

 

I, on the other hand, am going to need a lot more substance coming from anyone whose questions are tinged with mockery and ridicule - to at least be able to address the particular point that have been presented.  That's only expected - a basic requirement to have a healthy discussion between adults, especially when one decides to venture in a section such as Philosophy/Theology.

 

In other words, if you come to me with a challenge - particularly, a mocking challenge -  back it up.

  Be prepared to discuss! 

If one cannot make any refutation,  or give any reasonable (rational) rebuttal......or even try..... at least,  admit to it.

 

Before you leave, I hope you read my post above, and below about Genesis  (which can be related to evolution - seen from an evolutionist's pov).

 

 

(note: some of the points I gave above about Genesis (evolution angle), has been quite a "revelation" to me, too.....as I tried to respond to an atheist in the other forum). 

 

Ok, here is a question for you? How do you know that there is a God? What proof do you have? 

[taxme]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:15 PM, blackbird said:

You are not aware of the fact the Bible is a supernatural book and a record of supernatural events that were done by God.  Of course you can't apply human reasoning and look for earthly explanations for supernatural events.  So Noah's flood, as well as other supernatural occurrences in the Bible, can only be understood as miraculous occurrences.  Why did God choose to perform these supernatural events?

"For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.  Where is the wise?  where is the scribe?  where is the disputer of this world?  hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness:"  1 Corinthians ch1: 19-23

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."  1 Corinthians 2:14

In English please. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

In English please. 

The Bible is a spiritual book and can only be understood if one receives the gift to spiritually discern it as it says in the above verse.   The natural mind cannot understand the Bible.  (1 Corinthians ch2 vs 14 KIng Jame Bible 1611)  I will pray that you may receive the spiritual gift

Edited May 29, 2017 by blackbird

[JamesHackerMP]

Not to get off topic, but I don't think the KJV is the best translation if you want modern English and you're not a regular chuch-goer (who would already knot what it says).  There's plenty of other translations about into English.

I find it rather curious when someone says "I'll pray for you..."  Kind of like they're trying to sound polite about something.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[betsy]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

I actually never read the bibIe nor cared to even try.

 

Oh boy, Taxme.......

 

Quote

 

I took an interest in what the bible had to say after I read a book called The Chariots of Fire. I liked what the book had to say, and I went with it because it made more sense to me than what I was forced to listen too when I was forced to go to church in my youth. I would sit in church and had to listen to some preacher who was trying to convince me that I had better be good or else I will go to hell. And in order for me not too end up going to hell I had to go to church. The preacher must have wanted my money too help keep his church and religious lies going. I think that god could have done a better job of trying to explain things and convince people if he had just wrote it all in plain English. The bible is just to confusing to try to make heads or tails out of what it says.  

 

 

See what I mean?

You give yourself as an example of people whom I say, usually argue from ignorance.

 

 

Quote

I don't believe that there is anything to gain from reading the bible. 

Hahaha

So what are you doing in this thread?  Why do you  bother?

Why does it seems to matter to you?

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

Ok, here is a question for you? How do you know that there is a God? What proof do you have? 

 

That's  in Evidence for God.

 

 

 

Oh yeah.........I forgot.  You don't read.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

2 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Not to get off topic, but I don't think the KJV is the best translation if you want modern English and you're not a regular chuch-goer (who would already knot what it says).  There's plenty of other translations about into English.

I find it rather curious when someone says "I'll pray for you..."  Kind of like they're trying to sound polite about something.

 

That's nitpicking.  

 

Scroll back up.  Someone already asked about translations, and I think Blackbird also gave an answer.

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

8 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Good one.

Betsy, as with any religion there is leeway to interpret the Bible.  You may not think so, but there are a plethora of Christian sects in the world; all of them disagreeing with each other on their interpretation of it.  Part of the reason for this is that there are not really any 100% authoritative texts that exist.  The oldest manuscripts, the ones considered the most accurate, are each a copy of a copy of a copy. 

This doesn't make the Christian message bullshit, but it does leave--as I said above--leeway for the interpretation of that message.  And at the end of the day, it's a matter of faith.

 

There are messages in the Bible that are plainly, and clearly stated..... that there are no other interpretations.

 

[betsy]

4 hours ago, taxme said:

In English please. 

 

What's the point?  You don't read anyway.

[JamesHackerMP]

8 hours ago, betsy said:

 

There are messages in the Bible that are plainly, and clearly stated..... that there are no other interpretations.

 

No, they're not.  And yes, there are.  Why else would there be so many Christian sects? (as I asked above)  And, why would there be so many translations into the same language, if there weren't a little leeway?

I'm curious as to why you started this thread if you think nothing in the Bible is open to interpretation.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[taxme]

10 hours ago, betsy said:

 

Oh boy, Taxme.......

 

 

See what I mean?

You give yourself as an example of people whom I say, usually argue from ignorance.

 

 

Hahaha

So what are you doing in this thread?  Why do you  bother?

Why does it seems to matter to you?

Am I not allowed to question or challenge anything said in the bible on this forum? Must I just take every word written in the bible as the gospel truth even though I may find something in the bible that I wish to question or challenge? 

So why do you go to other forums and give your opinion on other topics posted then? 

All topics posted matter to me. I am not a one issue wonder. I enjoy arguing,debating and discussing many of the topics posted on this website. Why do you try to make it appear as though I should not be on this religious forum? 

[taxme]

10 hours ago, betsy said:

 

What's the point?  You don't read anyway.

Well, the point is that maybe I would better understand the bible, and what the hell is being said in the bible, if there was not so much babbling going on. Trying to interpret anything being said in the bible can be quite confusing at times. It's no wonder most people can't be bothered trying to read it because most of what is being said makes no sense at all. Just my opinion. 

[betsy]

3 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

No, they're not.

Of course there are.  Thou shalt not murder.  Isn't that clear enough?

 

 

Quote

And yes, there are.  Why else would there be so many Christian sects? (as I asked above)  And, why would there be so many translations into the same language, if there weren't a little leeway?

 

Because there are those who manipulate the Scriptures to suit what they want.   Just because some people twist the Scriptures, doesn't mean it's the Scriptures that's twisted!

 

 

Quote

I'm curious as to why you started this thread if you think nothing in the Bible is open to interpretation.

Read the title again.

Of course some messages are open to interpretation - however, the interpretation shouldn't in any way, contradict anything in the Scriptures.  That's one way to know if your interpretation is right , by reference-crossing to ensure that it's consistent with the Scriptures.

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Well, the point is that maybe I would better understand the bible, and what the hell is being said in the bible, if there was not so much babbling going on. Trying to interpret anything being said in the bible can be quite confusing at times. It's no wonder most people can't be bothered trying to read it because most of what is being said makes no sense at all. Just my opinion. 

 

Have you ever tried searching for something  with your eyes closed?

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Am I not allowed to question or challenge anything said in the bible on this forum? Must I just take every word written in the bible as the gospel truth even though I may find something in the bible that I wish to question or challenge? 

So why do you go to other forums and give your opinion on other topics posted then? 

All topics posted matter to me. I am not a one issue wonder. I enjoy arguing,debating and discussing many of the topics posted on this website. Why do you try to make it appear as though I should not be on this religious forum? 

 

How do you know what's written in the Bible?

 

You may enjoy debating and arguing - but how can you if you hardly know anything about the subject?

Edited May 29, 2017 by betsy

[taxme]

24 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Have you ever tried searching for something  with your eyes closed?

If my eyes were closed all the time then I would not know what I do today. Otherwise, if I did ,I would probably be just another typical bozo no mind walking around and believing what others are trying to convince me is the the truth and the light and the way of life. I would be your typical know nothing citizen living in dumbo land, and believing politicians and their lies.  

[taxme]

23 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

How do you know what's written in the Bible?

 

You may enjoy debating and arguing - but how can you if you hardly know anything about the subject?

I have had a gander at the bible, and like I said, it makes no sense to me at all. As far as I am concerned there is no one on earth that can really understand or really can interpret as to what the bible is really trying to tell us. My opinion, of course. 

[JamesHackerMP]

Betsy, about thou shalt not kill: what about soldiers who defend our respective countries? Are they evil? Seems to me like there certainly is a bit of leeway and a need to "interpret" something, not just take it literally and absolutely.

God doesn't always take the "short path" or make it easy, does He? You see what I mean now?

[JamesHackerMP]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Of course some messages are open to interpretation - however, the interpretation shouldn't in any way, contradict anything in the Scriptures.  That's one way to know if your interpretation is right , by reference-crossing to ensure that it's consistent with the Scriptures.

Interesting.  And do you do anything in your life that contradicts the scriptures? You seem to not take into account that different people have different opinions on what contradicts the scriptures.

On page one you said "consistency throughout," if I read that correctly.

Oh really?

In Acts 1:18-19, Judas died from his stomach exploding.  But in Matthew 27:5, he hanged himself.  That sort of "consistency"?

Edited May 30, 2017 by JamesHackerMP

[betsy]

14 hours ago, taxme said:

If my eyes were closed all the time then I would not know what I do today. Otherwise, if I did ,I would probably be just another typical bozo no mind walking around and believing what others are trying to convince me is the the truth and the light and the way of life. I would be your typical know nothing citizen living in dumbo land, and believing politicians and their lies.  

 

Well.....isn't that quite ironic?

 

Arguing about the Bible, which you admitted to have not read at all - and instead, believing what others say about it - is exactly like which you described above.

[betsy]

14 hours ago, taxme said:

I have had a gander at the bible, and like I said, it makes no sense to me at all. As far as I am concerned there is no one on earth that can really understand or really can interpret as to what the bible is really trying to tell us. My opinion, of course. 

 

A "gander?"  You had a glance at it? 

 

It takes so many re-readings (and with the help of a Bible-Study book which helps explain the relevancy of some phrases at that time - like customs, traditions, word-meaning, etc.,) to be able to have a good grasp of it.

[betsy]

8 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

Betsy, about thou shalt not kill: what about soldiers who defend our respective countries? Are they evil? Seems to me like there certainly is a bit of leeway and a need to "interpret" something, not just take it literally and absolutely.

God doesn't always take the "short path" or make it easy, does He? You see what I mean now?

 

Though some say "thou shalt not kill, " it's actually, THOU SHALT NOT MURDER! 

 

That's a good example why cross-referencing is important, James.   You're talking about war, and you're also talking about self-defense. 

Even Apostles carry swords - why is that?

 

Quote

We have the example of the apostles, who owned weapons. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He asked His followers to bring swords. They had two, which Jesus claimed was enough (Luke 22:37-39). As Jesus was being arrested, Peter sliced off the ear of one of the servants of the high priest (John 18:10). Jesus healed the man instantly (Luke 22:51) and commanded Peter to put away his weapon (John 18:11). Peter’s ownership of a sword was not condemned, only his particular use of it.

On another occasion, soldiers came to be baptized by John the Baptist. When asked what to do to live for God, John told them, “Do not extort money from anyone by threats or by false accusation, and be content with your wages” (Luke 3:14). John stopped short of telling them to lay down their weapons.

And then there is David, who praised God “who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle” (Psalm 144:1). The Old Testament contains many other examples of godly men who owned and used weapons, usually in the context of warfare.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-weapons.html

 

Is killing in self-defense, or at war,  contradicting anything in the Bible?  No. 

 

But of course, one's motive behind a deed, is important.  You can't hide your motive from God.  He knows what's in your heart.

  Look what happened to King David.  He plotted the death of Uriah (while they were at war), at the hands of the enemies. 

 

2 Samuel 11

¹⁴ In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. ¹⁵ In it he wrote, “Put Uriah out in front where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die.”

¹⁶ So while Joab had the city under siege, he put Uriah at a place where he knew the strongest defenders were. ¹⁷ When the men of the city came out and fought against Joab, some of the men in David’s army fell; moreover, Uriah the Hittite died.

 

 

Ecclesiastes 3

A Time for Everything

3 There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:

²     a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
³     a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
⁴     a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
⁵     a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
⁶     a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
⁷     a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
⁸     a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

Edited May 30, 2017 by betsy