hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Long has this gigantic falsehood reined supreme. Even today there are many who believe this lie, many more who know it is a lie and still cling to the childhood dreams fashioned by a propaganda system that outshines them all, all put together. Quote America’s not a force for good: The truth about our most enduring — and harmful — national myth Our exceptionalism is a lie, and only an honest accounting of our actual history will allow us to chart a new path CHRISTIAN APPY ... “I didn’t know there was a bad war,” George Evans recalled. He grew up in Pittsburgh in the 1950s. Starting at age six, before and after school, he helped his father deliver blocks of ice to poor working-class people who could not afford the shiny new refrigerators advertised in all the magazines. George understood that the American Dream was beyond the grasp of his parents and most of their friends and neighbors. He was a streetwise kid.He knew life was difficult and the future uncertain. But there was one thing George trusted completely—his nation’s military power and the good that it did. With all his heart he believed the United States was on the side of justice and freedom and all our wars were noble. Despite personal hardships, you could always count on Americans to be the good guys, and always victorious. It was simply unimaginable that the United States might betray that faith. “I was raised in a family and neighborhood of extreme patriots,” George explains. “My father was the commander of his VFW post and I got to go to the club and hang out with the veterans. I was their little mascot.” He especially looked forward to Flag Day, when he would help the World War II vets decorate the graves in a military cemetery. “Imagine how beautiful it looked to a kid to see hundreds of graves in a geometric pattern, all with shining bronze plates and flags waving in the wind. You just can’t exaggerate the pull of the military on kids from neighborhoods like mine. Everything you’d seen and heard your whole life made it feel inevitable and right.” But George’s faith in America’s global goodness was forever destroyed in Vietnam, where he served as an air force medic. “I realized that the country I was from was not the country I thought it was.” One day at the hospital in Cam Ranh Bay he was ordered to clean the bodies of two young Vietnamese boys. They were dead. As he was sponging one of them with soapy water, a Vietnamese woman raced into the room. She must have been the mother, but George wasn’t sure. “I’ll never forget her face. I can see her still. I remember her hitting me on the chest, grabbing me. Then she was running back and forth between the two bodies, from child to child.” George later learned that the boys were hit by an American military truck driver who may have been competing with other drivers over “who could hit a kid. They had some disgusting name for it, something like ‘gook hockey.’ ” http://www.salon.com/2015/03/29/americas_not_a_force_for_good_the_truth_about_our_most_enduring_and_harmful_national_myth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) The US does a lot of good and a lot of bad. They do a lot of evil stuff, but they also are forced into the position of doing some of those things since they're the lone global superpower. It's very easy to criticize when Canada has the luxury of only doing peacekeeping missions if it wanted, because it's protected by the US. But I'm glad they're the global hegemonic superpower. If another country was the lone superpower instead it could be much, much worse. Imagine if China or Saudi Arabia or North Korea or Russia were the lone superpower? And look at the evil and conquest and horrors that occurred when our other allies like the British (British Empire) or France (under Napoleon and otherwise) or Germany (Hitler) were superpowers. In comparison, the US has been an angel. Edited April 20, 2017 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: The US does a lot of good and a lot of bad. They do a lot of evil stuff, but they also are forced into the position of doing some of those things since they're the lone global superpower. But I'm glad they're the global hegemonic superpower. If another country was the lone superpower instead it could be much, much worse. Imagine if China or Saudi Arabia or North Korea or Russia were the lone superpower? And look at the evil and conquest and horrors that occurred when our other allies like the British (British Empire) or France (under Napoleon and otherwise) or Germany (Hitler) were superpowers. In comparison, the US has been an angel. You don't even know, MLG. Such is the propaganda. You're only relieved because you and yours have escaped a brutality that IS the equal, and arguably, much worse than the Nazis. Because the US had enough wealth, it was in a strong position to get more, by following the principles that it has always mouthed, but never actually followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) The U.S.A is great...I love it ! More people have emigrated to the United States from around the world than to any other nation on the planet. They must love it...too. Edited April 20, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, hot enough said: You don't even know, MLG. Such is the propaganda. You're only relieved because you and yours have escaped a brutality that IS the equal, and arguably, much worse than the Nazis. Because the US had enough wealth, it was in a strong position to get more, by following the principles that it has always mouthed, but never actually followed. The Nazis killed 6 million Jews by genocide and killed another 20 million Russians, plus allied deaths...in half a decade. So not quite LOL. Yes, the US gov are giant hypocrities. Edited April 20, 2017 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: The Nazis killed 6 million Jews by genocide and killed another 20 million Russians, plus allied deaths...in half a decade. So not quite LOL. Yes, the US gov are giant hypocrities. And no one really knows the count for the USA but it's up in the tens of millions. And the US's genocides have been going on since before they were a nation. When you think of a country at "war" for about 93% of its years in existence, it's not hard to imagine the level of evil. You're swayed by the Hollywood movies that put a shine on the illegal invasions and the genocides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, hot enough said: And no one really knows the count for the USA but it's up in the tens of millions. And the US's genocides have been going on since before they were a nation. When you think of a country at "war" for about 93% of its years in existence, it's not hard to imagine the level of evil. You're swayed by the Hollywood movies that put a shine on the illegal invasions and the genocides. Finally!!!!!!!!! We agree on something, The U.S makes the best movies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ash74 said: We agree on something The U.S makes the best propaganda movies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Well you said at least that, Had to hurt admitting the states are the best at something 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ash74 said: Well you said at least that, Had to hurt admitting the states are the best at something Isn't that grand, yes! It doesn't hurt. The Nazis were good at a lot of things too. Tell me again why you are so enamored with such deep evil. Tell me why after you read such a damning indictment of the US, all you can do is make jokes? Edited April 20, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The U.S.A is great...I love it ! That doesn't surprise me in the least. Those immigrants don't know the evil or they seek to escape the evil by hanging close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Great thread...we get to post more military porn because it is on topic, including government myth propaganda ! America's Navy....A GLOBAL FORCE FOR GOOD (and blowing things up) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Same reason I have said all along. Here you and I are debating the pro's and con's of the most powerful country in the world. You feel free to despise them and post articles about all the evil they have done and yet you have no fear of boots kicking down your door or having your entire generations of your family sent to work camps. Hate them all you want. They have made sure you have that right. We had a person on this forum defend their leader because a man was charged for insulting him by saying he would not serve him tea. Now that is petty. States are not perfect and yes lately I have enjoyed British TV more than the American but it beats the alternatives on how the world could have turned out. Its not like they are flying planes into buildings or stoning people. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Here is the short version for those who can't stand all the military porn: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ash74 said: Its not like they are flying planes into buildings That they are. They have also murdered a million Iraqi kids and millions of other kids but you feel snug that they haven't turned their phosphorus gas on you, or their napalm or their atomic bombs or their soldiers to rape your sisters, brothers, ... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 minute ago, hot enough said: ....They have also murdered a million Iraqi kids and millions of other kids but you feel snug that they haven't turned their phosphorus gas on you, or their napalm or their atomic bombs or their soldiers to rape your sisters, brothers, ... . Don't forget the defoliants with dioxin and all those depleted uranium munitions, with a little help from our Canadian friends. After all, business is business ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: That they are. They have also murdered a million Iraqi kids and millions of other kids but you feel snug that they haven't turned their phosphorus gas on you, or their napalm or their atomic bombs or their soldiers to rape your sisters, brothers, ... . Yup. I also have been able to live in a country that can afford health care because we have a strong neighbor that watches over us. It is for their own benefit but it works for us. I am a greedy selfish individual that is glad the US dropped two nukes that ended WW2 quicker and kept the wonderfully peace loving communist block in check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Yeah, I like them too. It's not so much that they are great. Who is? It's just that, given the choices for top world superpower after WWII, they were definitely the best of the bunch. Well, apart from the Brits, of course, but we had kind of had our day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm shocked at how easily folks can admit that they support an evil as deep as what occasioned the Holocaust. It's but one small step until these kinds of people would step into that role, some evidently with great relish. Quote That faith was eviscerated by the vision of U. S. soldiers burning down the homes of Vietnamese peasants and forcing millions off their ancestral land; the incessant U. S. bombing, year after year, with nothing to show for it but further death and destruction; and the indelible images from My Lai, where an American company of infantrymen slaughtered five hundred unarmed, unresisting Vietnamese civilians. Ibid The Quaker missionaries in Vietnam weren't at all shocked by the My Lai massacre. They knew that it was a regular event. How do folks who suggest they are civilized glorify such evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Yeah, I like them too. It's not so much that they are great. Who is? It's just that, given the choices for top world superpower after WWII, they were definitely the best of the bunch. Well, apart from the Brits, of course, but we had kind of had our day. Agreed...if only the Americans had a royal monarchy to prove that a global empire is a force for good. The Americans in comparison are such...barbarians! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 minute ago, hot enough said: I'm shocked at how easily folks can admit that they support an evil as deep as what occasioned the Holocaust. It's but one small step until these kinds of people would step into that role, some evidently with great relish. Why are you shocked ? Your own country (if it be part of the "West")....has been complicit in such things from the beginning. Quote The Quaker missionaries in Vietnam weren't at all shocked by the My Lai massacre. They knew that it was a regular event. How do folks who suggest they are civilized glorify such evil? Because it makes for great Oliver Stone movies ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Because it makes for great Oliver Stone movies ? I thought Full Metal Jacket was the best Vietnam movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Just now, Ash74 said: I thought Full Metal Jacket was the best Vietnam movie I never saw that. I liked Apocalypse Now the best, of those I saw. I should try FMJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, hot enough said: I'm shocked at how easily folks can admit that they support an evil as deep as what occasioned the Holocaust. Because most of us believe the evil that the US stopped was worse. Maybe we did drink the Kool aid but we are not having mayday parades or dropping people off buildings for being gay. We have our faults to be sure but we are trying to be better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash74 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I never saw that. I liked Apocalypse Now the best, of those I saw. I should try FMJ. If you liked platoon you will love FMJ. We were solders was good too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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