Argus Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: China had an emperor over the entire region, and a different structure with regards to power. Christianity didn't "allow" for change, but change came as a myriad of centres of power disagreed on religious orthodoxy and other things. It's possible to look at the attributes of a culture to determine how certain aspects result in certain effects, but not if your goal in the outset is to make your culture look better, to blame others etc. It's called objectivity and you need to have it to consider such questions in a worthwhile way. You simply prefer to deal with culture because dealing with religion bothers you. I don't think Europe had a single unifying culture unless it was one based upon the precepts of Christianity. The same goes for the Muslim world of that period. Edited April 19, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Argus said: Europeans didn't tend to want genocide, however. I doubt the German people as a whole did either, but that doesn't make the genocides okay. It doesn't excuse the USA for all its war crimes, terrorism, genocides, rapes, thefts, ... . Nuremberg established the standard. The US is responsible for all crimes that have flowed from their initial supreme war crimes, the illegal invasions. Now numbering close to 80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: I doubt the German people as a whole did either, but that doesn't make the genocides okay. It doesn't excuse the USA for all its war crimes, terrorism, genocides, rapes, thefts, ... . Clearly you are either uninterested in or incapable of discussing the actual topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Argus said: Clearly you are either uninterested in or incapable of discussing the actual topic. The issue of wars, etc was raised by you and Micheal H. What is hurting the west is the voluminous lies, the war crimes being committed against others. Hence the refugee problem, hence the exploding like fields of dandelions racism. Atheism is simply a cover being used by Black. Edited April 19, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, hot enough said: The issue of wars, etc was raised by you and Micheal H. What is hurting the west is the voluminous lies, the war crimes being committed against others. Hence the refugee problem, hence the exploding like fields of dandelions racism. Atheism is simply a cover being used by Black. The issue under discussion is religion, its benefits and drawbacks, not your blindingly boring obsession with imaginary war crimes and imaginary genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 10 hours ago, blackbird said: You make the assumption that christians disbelieve in science. This is not correct. I can't really speak for other people so I will limit my answer to my own view. I had a great interest in science when I was a kid and had my own chemistry lab at home. I believe in true science, not fake science. Of course the big debate is about evolution versus creation. I don't think evolution is supported by science. Also I am not convinced man-made global warming is proven. I believe in climate change. There has always been climate change, but not man-made climate change. Anti-vaccination people are not restricted to certain christians. I know there are some christians who don't believe in it, but I think the great majority are not anti-vaccination. There are a lot of vegans or vegetarians who are anti-vaccination but who are not christians. You also err in saying christians think the planet is disposable. I have talked to christians for decades and have never met one christian who believes that. I think you made that one up on the fly. Christians believe in responsible use of the creation that God has given us. But they don't support environmental fanaticism, which we see a lot of these days. Those people have their own religion, worshipping mother earth. Lots of Christians don't believe in science. Hovind and his 'science' museum kind of proves that. The notion they put forth is that Man walked along side Dinosaurs... yeah. And you prove if yourself by saying evolution is not supported by science. I'll throw you into the same category as Betsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted April 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Lots of Christians don't believe in science. Hovind and his 'science' museum kind of proves that. The notion they put forth is that Man walked along side Dinosaurs... yeah. And you prove if yourself by saying evolution is not supported by science. I'll throw you into the same category as Betsy. OK. I think there are scientists who reject the theory of evolution as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, blackbird said: OK. I think there are scientists who reject the theory of evolution as well. Well there are people who consider themselves scientists, but they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 The change has been fast. As recently as in the 70's the weekly church-going rate in Ireland was about 80%. These days it is almost nothing. Even more recently, the Catholic Church was a formidable force in the fall of communism in Poland in 1989. These days to the new generation the church has lost its importance. I would say that all European countries are very secular. I'm not sure about the Latin-American ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTM Posted June 1, 2017 Report Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) On 2017-04-17 at 6:46 PM, Argus said: Well, there were two major religions around at that time. The other was Islam, which was their main enemy, which was more advanced militarily, scientifically and technologically while Europe was in the dark ages. And then it all changed. Europe began to thrive and to develop technologically and scientifically while the Muslim world stagnated. The reason is religion. For example, the fact that Christianity permitted banking (with interest) allowed for major projects to be developed. Islam did not permit the loaning of money for interest, so no banks developed to finance projects. In addition, interest in science and technology was discouraged under Islam. Even the science they had developed earlier was only used for religious purposes, to properly track the Prophet's birthdate, for example, and properly plot the exact direction of Mecca for prayers. So while science and technology developed under Christianity it failed to do so under Islam. Science (math, botany, astronomy, medicine, etc.) flourished during Islam's golden age, in which the culture tended to be more tolerant and secular. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world. The more fundamentalist application of Islam has resulted in their current state. The Renaissance and followig scientific revolution was due to an influx of pre-Christian (Greek, Latin) thought into Europe. Usury (banking with interest) ok was historcally forbidden in christianity. Your examples show that progress is due to an increase in secularism, or a weakening of religion Edited June 1, 2017 by TTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubbleGumYum Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Atheism devalues human life, so yes, it will be, and has been, poisonous to culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, BubbleGumYum said: Atheism devalues human life, so yes, it will be, and has been, poisonous to culture. Ha! Not as much as the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 17 hours ago, BubbleGumYum said: Atheism devalues human life, so yes, it will be, and has been, poisonous to culture. In what way does atheism devalue human life and poison culture? Religion doing those things is quite well documented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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