betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) I've encountered so many arguments - mostly from atheists, of all people - who love to throw hacked up verses at Christians about tolerance and love. Mostly, if not all of those verses were taken out of context, and/or the non-believer does not have an inkling as to what he's quoting about. As always, when one uses a passage, it is important to know what the issue is all about.....thus simply quoting a line here and there isn't the right way to go about it. Yes, there so many quotes about tolerance and love in the Bible......and this thread is created for the purpose of exploring, and understanding them. Let me begin with this one: 2 John 1 1 The elder, To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth— 2 because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever: 3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love. 4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work. ------------------------------------------------- When Jesus talks about love and forgiveness, it usually pertains to "BRETHRENS" - Christians loving and forgiving FELLOW-CHRISTIANS. Clearly, the command from God in the verses above talks about the disciples of Jesus. For how can you say you walk in obedience to His command, if you do not believe in Christ (and His teachings)? Do not mistake COMPASSION........... for today's meaning of "tolerance," and acceptance. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) In Collosians 3, the message is for those who'd accepted and believe in Christ. The message is for all Christians - regardless of race or status - and how they should treat each other. Colossians 3 (NIV) Living as Those Made Alive in Christ 3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. 12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) This is one of the most given argument for tolerance and acceptance. Matthew 5 Love for Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. How do you show your love for your enemies, without going against 2 John 1? 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work. By PRAYING for them! Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) The following verse also talks about how we should treat fellow-Christians. Matthew 25 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Who are Jesus' brothers and sisters? Christians! Matthew 12 Jesus’ Mother and Brothers 46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Btw, the Bible has an example of an immigrant. RUTH! And she assimilated! Ruth 1 11 But Naomi said, “Return home, my daughters. Why would you come with me? Am I going to have any more sons, who could become your husbands? 12 Return home, my daughters; I am too old to have another husband. Even if I thought there was still hope for me—even if I had a husband tonight and then gave birth to sons— 13 would you wait until they grew up? Would you remain unmarried for them? No, my daughters. It is more bitter for me than for you, because the Lord’s hand has turned against me!” 14 At this they wept aloud again. Then Orpah kissed her mother-in-law goodbye, but Ruth clung to her. 15 “Look,” said Naomi, “your sister-in-law is going back to her people and her gods. Go back with her.” 16 But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 This is merely your interpretation. I've Christian friends who believe tolerance and acceptance includes everyone, not just other Christians and that compassion for the world requires more than just praying. But thanks for providing insight into how the Bible can be interpreted to support your political ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, dialamah said: This is merely your interpretation. I've Christian friends who believe tolerance and acceptance includes everyone, not just other Christians and that compassion for the world requires more than just praying. But thanks for providing insight into how the Bible can be interpreted to support your political ideology. It's not my interpretation. I'm quoting the verses. No interpretations needed, really. Compassion does not require more than praying (for indeed, nothing can surpass that show of love and compassion when one sincerely pray for somebody, especially one's enemy) ....... .......however it doesn't say that you couldn't provide relief to those who suffer through donations, or even peace-keeping.......or even going to war to help relieve the sufferings of the oppressed. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 8 minutes ago, betsy said: It's not my interpretation. I'm quoting the verses. No interpretations needed, really. This is what all religious people say when interpreting their religious books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dialamah said: This is what all religious people say when interpreting their religious books. I'm not interested in your opinion, especially when you're simply ignoring the verses that were given. Personal opinions aren't worth anything in a serious discussion. If you want to refute, do it with substance. Deal with the given verses. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 27 minutes ago, betsy said: I'm not interested in your opinion 27 minutes ago, betsy said: Personal opinions aren't worth anything in a serious discussion. You start a topic expounding on your personal opinion about what an unverified historical figure meant when he said certain things, and demand that people not contradict your personal opinion with their own? This is oddly similar behavior to our resident religious teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dialamah said: You start a topic expounding on your personal opinion about what an unverified historical figure meant when he said certain things, and demand that people not contradict your personal opinion with their own? This is oddly similar behavior to our resident religious teenager. The OP explains why I've created this thread. Non-Christians had thrown these Biblical verses....and I'm giving the verses as written, in their full and accurate context. No interpretations are necessary for these, as they're plainly and clearly written. I'll say for the last time: if you want to refute, deal with the verses given. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) As for refugees, there is a big difference between PERSONAL CONVICTIONS regarding refugees from setting up governmental policy. Individuals have varying ideas on how to help refugees. A government may have a different priority: national security. A Christian may be willing to risk everything to help refugees - but it's not for him to demand that others share the same risk that he's willing to take. Christians should strive for a balance wherein we can exercise our God-given personal responsibilities of showing compassion, while at the same time the government can practice its God-given state responsibility of protecting its people. One thing certain is that we must not oppress foreigners among us. What is oppression? According to Merriam, it is an unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power. The Golden Rule comes to mind. Should we assist refugees that are here, as we would anyone who needs support? Yes. Should we promote a government policy to effectively screen refugees that those with evil intent may not enter? Most definitely. There must be compassion for those who rely on their leader/ government to see to their safety. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) Acts 17 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. Quote Where we are matters to God. Scripture reinforces the fact that our national identity is an essential component of who we are as humans. The Apostle Paul suggested something along these lines when, speaking at Mars Hill, he proclaimed that God had “made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him” (Acts 17:26-27, emphasis added). Paul saw God’s sovereignty in placing us in particular countries and cultures. This implies, among other things, a responsibility. Included in the things we are to steward are our communities, our nation and our culture. https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/october-2013/the-role-of-government-and-christian-citizens/ That brings us right back to the OP - 2 John 1. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 The verses given so far, support each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 4 hours ago, betsy said: and/or the non-believer does not have an inkling as to what he's quoting about. All males, are they, Betsy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, betsy said: https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/october-2013/the-role-of-government-and-christian-citizens/ That brings us right back to the OP - 2 John 1. You quote a man, an organization, that avidly supported US war crimes in Vietnam. How can this be seen as godlike? A man who advised a plan that would see a million or more murdered. A man who suggested a plan of action that saw a German war criminal sentenced to death. Why would a purported Christian support such deep evil, quote such deep evil, as an expression of god's love? Is this what tolerance and acceptance is all about in your mind? Quote Billy Graham: War Criminal ALEXANDER COCKBURN There's a piquant contrast in the press coverage of Billy Graham's conversations with Nixon, as displayed on the tapes gradually released from the National Archive or disclosed from Nixon's papers. Back in April l989, a Graham memo to Nixon was made public. It was dated April 15, 1969, and was drafted after the evangelist met in Bangkok with missionaries from Vietnam. These men of God said that if peace talks in Paris were to fail, Nixon should step up the war and bomb the dikes, which, Graham wrote, "could overnight destroy the economy of North Vietnam." Graham lent his imprimatur to this recommendation. Thus Graham was advocating a policy to the U.S. Commander-in-Chief that on Nixon's own estimate would have killed a million people. The German High Commissioner Seyss-Inquart was sentenced to death at Nuremberg for breaching dikes and other crimes in Holland in World War II. (His execution did not deter the USAF from destroying the Toksan dam in North Korea, in 1953, thus deliberately wrecking the system that irrigated 75 percent of North Korea's rice farms.) This disclosure of Graham as an aspirant war criminal did not excite any commotion when it became public. ... http://www.nypress.com/billy-graham-war-criminal/ Edited March 29, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Brethrens? I never heard that word before. Surely brethren is the plural form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 11 minutes ago, hot enough said: You quote a man, an organization, that avidly supported US war crimes in Vietnam. How can this be seen as godlike? A man who advised a plan that would see a million or more murdered. A man who suggested a plan of action that saw a German war criminal sentenced to death. Why would a purported Christian support such deep evil, quote such deep evil, as an expression of god's love? Is this what tolerance and acceptance is all about in your mind? Whatever your beef is with the author....it still brings us right back to the OP - 2 John 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Brethrens? I never heard that word before. Surely brethren is the plural form? Yes, brethren is the plural form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, betsy said: Whatever your beef is with the author....it still brings us right back to the OP - 2 John 1. Well, "my beef" is that it seems rather odd for a Christian to be quoting war criminals and the like as stalwart and upstanding folk, who we ought to look to for moral guidance. What gets quoted next, Mein Kampf? the extended quotes of PolPot, another gentlemen the US and likely, Billy, supported. Edited March 29, 2017 by hot enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, hot enough said: Well, "my beef" is that it seems rather odd for a Christian to be quoting war criminals and the like as stalwart and upstanding folk, who we ought to look to for moral guidance. The issue is not about me. Stay on topic on tolerance and acceptance. Deal with the verses. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 If Billy were alive today, would he be tolerant and accepting of Muslims or would he be plumping for their extermination too? What is the Billy Graham organization's views on the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan? Are they still the war mongers that Billy was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, hot enough said: If Billy were alive today, As far as I know, he's still alive today. Now, please stay on topic. The issue is not about Billy Graham. Edited March 29, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 That's good. That means that he can still be brought to the Hague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Now, back on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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