Army Guy Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Liberal's making friends every where they go.....This does not surprise me , Canada can not even look after it's own soldiers.....but to take this stand on the inter national stage is stupid for the lack of a better word. I mean here was an opportunity to show some compassion, to the world for mere crumbs to our full annual Budget....and yet the liberals who have spent 30 bil in a blink of an eye has said NO to the small compensation of the gurkha guards at our own embassy....I wonder who is guarding the gates now... more an likely the locals, as they would be the cheapest bidder.....Wonder i secure the embassy is now.... http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kabul-canada-gurkhas-1.4019840 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 27 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Liberal's making friends every where they go.... Why is not the private enterprise Sabre taking care of its employees? That is the problem with capitalism, the private sector screws up and the public sector is expected to bail them out time and time and time and time and time again. It doesn't matter where you go or if it is people, the environment, or anything else. The private sector never takes care of their duty and the taxpayer is always expected to step in and cover for them. This is why taxes to corporations need to be hiked big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 According to the media the company has made payments. Quote O'Shaughnessy said recently that Canada formally expressed its "deepest condolences" to Nepalese officials, adding "compensation to the victims' family members has been made by the private security company as per their employment contracts." In addition, the families of the dead former soldiers received about $23,000 US in ex gratia payments from the government of Nepal. It is not a problem with Capitalism, this is a third world company , that pays out 3 rd world compensation, with that said what harm would it of created if Canada had said we will match NAPAL's contribution, it would have been a great opportunity for Canada to show how generous it is, after all it was Canadians diplomates that these Gurka were protecting...I mean 23,000 us dollars is spent every min by our government and a lot of it on useless shit.....here we would have gotten back so much more for our investment.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I have mixed feelings on this. I don't believe we have any kind of legal obligation but these people were protecting the lives of our diplomats so do we have some kind of moral obligation? You probably couldn't do any better than retired British and Indian army Gurkhas for security personnel but where does their employers obligation end and ours begin? Perhaps some compensation as a good will gesture and acknowledgement of their service, but would it set a bad president when dealing with private security companies? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Army Guy said: It is not a problem with Capitalism, this is a third world company , that pays out 3 rd world compensation Well maybe we shouldn't be dealing with third world companies then. We need regulations for government as well a private enterprise that deals in international trade, but the vested interests with their installed politicians are always lobbying against any regulation. This is most definitely a capitalism problem. Who is the first to scream that private enterprise can do it cheaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasTigerino Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Aren't Gurkhas Nepalese? Shouldn't the Canadian government be responsible for their own soldiers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Gurkha Rifles are troops of the British Commonwealth. Our buddies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Gurkha Rifles are troops of the British Commonwealth. Our buddies. Is Nepal in the British commonwealth? They worked for a private security firm. Edited March 13, 2017 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 You decide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Gurkha_Rifles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasTigerino Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 @DogOnPorch - I understand that but if they agreed to the terms and conditions before signing up as guards for the embassy then it really doesn't matter. It's more of a what they agreed to before signing up for the job. More business then anything. If post death compensation wasn't part of the deal then that's just how it is. Respect to those soldiers and their families but if compensation wasn't promised before, then it's completely irrelevant. I wouldn't want Canadian soldiers guarding anything that's not Canadian. So maybe it's something the Nepalese government should think about, not Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ThomasTigerino said: @DogOnPorch - I understand that but if they agreed to the terms and conditions before signing up as guards for the embassy then it really doesn't matter. It's more of a what they agreed to before signing up for the job. More business then anything. If post death compensation wasn't part of the deal then that's just how it is. Respect to those soldiers and their families but if compensation wasn't promised before, then it's completely irrelevant. I wouldn't want Canadian soldiers guarding anything that's not Canadian. So maybe it's something the Nepalese government should think about, not Canadian. So there is no legal requirement. I don't agree that such is the criteria for doing the right thing every time. I'm embarrassed at how my own government has treated Gurkhas in the past, and now I can be embarrassed at how my other government treats them. I would have liked to have seen a gesture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ThomasTigerino said: @DogOnPorch - I understand that but if they agreed to the terms and conditions before signing up as guards for the embassy then it really doesn't matter. It's more of a what they agreed to before signing up for the job. More business then anything. If post death compensation wasn't part of the deal then that's just how it is. Respect to those soldiers and their families but if compensation wasn't promised before, then it's completely irrelevant. I wouldn't want Canadian soldiers guarding anything that's not Canadian. So maybe it's something the Nepalese government should think about, not Canadian. Old Gurkha tale from WW2... When informed that the RGR was going to participate in an airborne operation behind Japanese lines, the Gurkha officers got very excited and asked how this was to be. The British officer informed them they'd be jumping out of a C-47 Dakota doing 170 mph at 2,000 feet. The Gurkha officers all eagerly agreed on one condition...that the aircraft fly lower and slower so more of the regiment would survive to fight the Japanese. Everybody had a good laugh...and explained parachutes... Edited March 13, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Old Gurkha tale from WW2... When informed that the RGR was going to participate in an airborne operation behind Japanese lines, the Gurkha officer got very excited and asked how this was to be. The British officer informed them they'd be jumping out of a C-47 Dakota doing 170 mph at 2,000 feet. The Gurkha officers all eagerly agreed on one condition...that the aircraft fly lower and slower so more of the regiment would survive to fight the Japanese. Everybody had a good laugh...and explained parachutes... Yeah, I'm glad they were on our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Why do we not have Canadians guarding Canadian soil, do the Americans outsource their security or do they use the Marines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Just now, bcsapper said: Yeah, I'm glad they were on our side. They collect ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Why do we not have Canadians guarding Canadian soil, do the Americans outsource their security or do they use the Marines? Because BEING Canadians they would be targets for drive-by shootings and car bombs. The Nepalese, being third world people, were considered to be less likely to be targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, ?Impact said: Why do we not have Canadians guarding Canadian soil, do the Americans outsource their security or do they use the Marines? We and the Americans have security INSIDE the perimeter. But the Americans also use contracted and local security on the outside for the same reason Canadians do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: Liberal's making friends every where they go.....This does not surprise me , Canada can not even look after it's own soldiers.....but to take this stand on the inter national stage is stupid for the lack of a better word. I mean here was an opportunity to show some compassion, to the world for mere crumbs to our full annual Budget... Compassion.... ? What is this 'compassion' word? I guarantee you that when lawyers make decisions that word is completely unknown to them and of no consequence. They deal with the fine print, and with precedents. Words like 'compassion' or 'justice' have literally nothing to do with it, any more than right or wrong does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 They were private security personnel. They weren't fighting for God and country in our service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 6 hours ago, bcsapper said: So there is no legal requirement. I don't agree that such is the criteria for doing the right thing every time. I'm embarrassed at how my own government has treated Gurkhas in the past, and now I can be embarrassed at how my other government treats them. I would have liked to have seen a gesture. Yes, may dad spent two years in South East Asia during WW2. One of the things he brought home was a Kukri. I don't think people understand the degree of respect in which they are held by everyone who has ever served with the Gurkhas. Joanna Lumley rocks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, Wilber said: Yes, may dad spent two years in South East Asia during WW2. One of the things he brought home was a Kukri. I don't think people understand the degree of respect in which they are held by everyone who has ever served with the Gurkhas. Joanna Lumley rocks. She does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 19 hours ago, ?Impact said: Why do we not have Canadians guarding Canadian soil, do the Americans outsource their security or do they use the Marines? We do have Canadians guarding the inside of our embassies. The Retired Gurkhas were guarding the outside of the compound and control entrance ( main Gate). Canada does not want a heavy military presence in any of our embassies, and has a long history of using contractors to do this job. In fact most of our military in the embassies are not in uniform but civilian cloths unless there in a official capacity....and then the security is only a couple of MP, military police...no Army guards such as Marines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We do have Canadians guarding the inside of our embassies. The Retired Gurkhas were guarding the outside of the compound and control entrance ( main Gate). Canada does not want a heavy military presence in any of our embassies, and has a long history of using contractors to do this job. In fact most of our military in the embassies are not in uniform but civilian cloths unless there in a official capacity....and then the security is only a couple of MP, military police...no Army guards such as Marines.... I can think of few groups I'd rather have members of guarding my diplomatic bod than Gurkha Rifles....former or not. These are the dudes entire Italian divisions (and a few Argentine formations) would surrender to en masse rather than face potential involuntary ear collection. Edited March 14, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, ThomasTigerino said: @DogOnPorch - I understand that but if they agreed to the terms and conditions before signing up as guards for the embassy then it really doesn't matter. It's more of a what they agreed to before signing up for the job. More business then anything. If post death compensation wasn't part of the deal then that's just how it is. Respect to those soldiers and their families but if compensation wasn't promised before, then it's completely irrelevant. I wouldn't want Canadian soldiers guarding anything that's not Canadian. So maybe it's something the Nepalese government should think about, not Canadian. Then that's it then, they had signed a contract end of story off you go...I some glad we all know what it is like to be employed over seas in a 3 rd world country. where post death compensations is phoning the family to inform them you have to remove the remains ASAP. Our government use to have a policy of not paying locals or foreign contractors more than the local wage, for any job....here we have one of the most dangerous jobs in the embassy and if that policy is still in place paid well below our minimum wage....well below...Not sure if that policy remains....that was in 2011 The fact that these men would be the best in the area by leaps and bounds.... , that you could hire, and had pledged their lives to protecting fat Canadian embassy staff, . that had established an excellent rapport with their masters.....the fact that the embassy staff had gather up as much as they could out of their own pockets speaks to how well they where liked and how well they did they're job. .........We have to remember this is not the families that are requesting this support it is their government asking....and we have told them, government to government to pound salt because we had a contract.....and we don't have any responsibility and we wash our hands of it...... All true....and yet we could have stepped up and told them yes we will support them provided we keep it under the table....and poof we would have gained favor with the government , secured the best guards in that part of the world. Not to mention that the guards would have been forever grateful, knowing they're employer has their backs... Now because we had to be right and stick to the letter of the law....where are we again...oh ya hiring local Aghanis for the position.... Afghanis contractors....who will not have the same work ethic as the Gurkhas, nor the same loyalty. that much i know...This however is how Canada does business the cheapest bidder wins, and the cheapest solution is good enough....except if it is your life on the line.... Edited March 14, 2017 by Army Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot enough Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 All this talk about what was and still is an illegal invasion, ie. a war crime as defined by international law. No on had any sympathy for German soldiers or Italian soldiers or Japanese soldiers who it was believed by the victors to have participated in war crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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