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Hazing tradition banned by the MLB


Boges

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Just now, Wilber said:

It's not done to make you feel unwelcome. Quite the opposite. I like a social drink but I'm not a big fan of having to drink being part of it. I watched a guy chug a pewter tankard of straight rye at a going away party once. Someone bought it and he was drunk enough to do it. Fortunately, he threw most of it back up five minutes later but it could have killed him.

But if you don't feel comfortable accomplishing the arbitrary task, then it will make you feel unwelcome.

Removing any claim by supporters that these practices are actually voluntary. Which is why I think it should be banned where ever possible. 

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From a philosophical perspetive. 

http://blog.talkingphilosophy.com/?p=3800

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My personal view of  abusive hazing is that it is a sign of both moral evil and a pathologically defective psychological makeup that would seem to include sadism as well as profound lack of respect for the dignity and worth of other people. Naturally, the people who engage in hazing speak of the tradition of the practice (which is, of course, fallacious reasoning) and note that people need to show their commitment. While I do believe in the importance of commitment, this is not something that should be tested by paddling a band member until he suffers kidney damage or abusing him until he dies.

 

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4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not but it's still not ethnical if you're coerced to dress up as Wonder Woman. 

It's just dressing up for god's sake. It's not going to hurt you and even independent observers of this farce know what is going on and won't think any less of you.  The guy in your article is speaking from a position of a cross country runner. He may be part of a track team but unless he is part of a relay team, his is an individual sport. 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Seals have some sort of initiation ceremony for graduates. I would be kind of surprised if they didn't.

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1 minute ago, Wilber said:

It's just dressing up for god's sake. It's not going to hurt you and even independent observers of this farce know what is going on and won't think any less of you.  The guy in your article is speaking from a position of a cross country runner. He may be part of a track team but unless he is part of a relay team, his is an individual sport. 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Seals have some sort of initiation ceremony for graduates. I would be kind of surprised if they didn't.

If it's just dressing up then it shouldn't be required to be accepted into a club. 

I'm sure many Military institutions do have forms of hazing, doesn't mean it's not unethical. If you need someone to humiliate themselves for you to trust them in a life and death situation then that's a you problem. 

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5 minutes ago, Boges said:

If it's just dressing up then it shouldn't be required to be accepted into a club. 

I'm sure many Military institutions do have forms of hazing, doesn't mean it's not unethical. If you need someone to humiliate themselves for you to trust them in a life and death situation then that's a you problem. 

Not your problem obviously. "Taking one for the team" isn't an empty phrase. That's pretty much what an initiation is.

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8 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Not your problem obviously. "Taking one for the team" isn't an empty phrase. That's pretty much what an initiation is.

To take one for the team, requires some sort of selflessness for a cause.

Performing an initiation is for the entertainment of others. The example in the OP does nothing to promote the unity of the team, winning games does that. 

It seems each case of hazing or initiation can be considered individually, some are obviously worse than others. But I'd say hazing rituals are mostly done for sadistic entertainment and serve no useful purpose. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26351-hazing-tradition-banned-by-the-mlb/?page=3#

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11 minutes ago, Boges said:

To take one for the team, requires some sort of selflessness for a cause.

Performing an initiation is for the entertainment of others. The example in the OP does nothing to promote the unity of the team, winning games does that. 

It seems each case of hazing or initiation can be considered individually, some are obviously worse than others. But I'd say hazing rituals are mostly done for sadistic entertainment and serve no useful purpose. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26351-hazing-tradition-banned-by-the-mlb/?page=3#

Winning games takes a team, not a bunch of individuals.  We have all seen examples of under achieving teams made up of a bunch of very talented athletes and over achieving teams made up of more average athletes.  Shared experiences are part of what makes a team. Their initiation is an experience only they share.

Every initiation isn't going to be the same but there do need to be limits as to what is acceptable and what isn't.

Edited by Wilber
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Just now, Wilber said:

Winning games takes a team, not a bunch of individuals.  We have all seem examples of under achieving teams made up of a bunch of very talented athletes and over achieving teams made up of more average athletes.  Shared experiences are part of what makes a team. Their initiation is an experience only they share.

Every initiation isn't going to be the same but there do need to be limits as to what is acceptable and what isn't.

As mentioned earlier, my experiences with hazing on a team did not make me feel welcome with the team. "But that's the bad type of hazing". So you're saying there's a good type of compulsory act of humiliation? 

I think above all, your skills at the task will trump any stupid team building exercise. If Bryce Harper doesn't want to dress up like a girl, no ones gonna say peep about it, but if some scrub that's trying to make the team doesn't want to dress up like a girl he'll be accused of rocking the boat and not being part of a team. So it's very subjective how the importance of the task is seen. Which is why it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Take the subjectivity out of it. 

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32 minutes ago, Wilber said:

"Taking one for the team" isn't an empty phrase.

No it's an excuse for sick psychos to get others to do something stupid for their entertainment. There is no team benefit in humiliating a new member, it is just immature bullying. Treat the new member with respect, and have them pass on that ritual to next years recruits. Bond around something positive for a change. 

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8 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

No it's an excuse for sick psychos to get others to do something stupid for their entertainment. There is no team benefit in humiliating a new member, it is just immature bullying. Treat the new member with respect, and have them pass on that ritual to next years recruits. Bond around something positive for a change. 

So all sports teams with initiations are nothing more than a bunch of sick psychos.

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It's funny because I'm a huge fan of the Miami Dolphins. In 2013 there was a huge scandal after their starting Left Tackle left the team claiming he was bullied by another player. It became bullygate. But a lot of the hazing element of sports became unearthed by the investigation. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-bullying-miami-dolphins/3466755/

Now I happen to think Jonathan Martin only opposed to his treatment after he was demoted because of poor play. And when you think that Martin is out of the league but Incognito is a productive player in Buffalo, there may be truth to that. 

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

As mentioned earlier, my experiences with hazing on a team did not make me feel welcome with the team. "But that's the bad type of hazing". So you're saying there's a good type of compulsory act of humiliation? 

I think above all, your skills at the task will trump any stupid team building exercise. If Bryce Harper doesn't want to dress up like a girl, no ones gonna say peep about it, but if some scrub that's trying to make the team doesn't want to dress up like a girl he'll be accused of rocking the boat and not being part of a team. So it's very subjective how the importance of the task is seen. Which is why it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Take the subjectivity out of it. 

Why would you think Harper didn't go through one in his rookie year?

Your skills are about you. A team is not about you. You don't get to dictate the conditions which make you a team member.

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