Refugees visit food banks.

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

Living in peace and raising a family - those are universal!

Since we're now in a predominantly liberal society, actually, what values I've got in mind should be asked by a  liberal such as yourself.  You should ask: do they share your values regarding   equality for women?  Abortion?  LGBT?  Promiscuity and adultery? Liberal moral lifestyle? 

 

What about Canadian cuisine -  bacon is definitely part of our culture!  Anyone who finds the smell of bacon offensive must have the welcome mat yanked off from under their feet!  Yes, I'm still harping about someone complaining at  the smell of bacon in a restaurant that serves breakfast.  And the restaurant owner scrapped bacon off his menu.  I wonder how is his breakfast special now?

The nerve.

 

1.  Yes, the desire to live in peace and raising a family is universal.

2.  If people from another culture come to Canada and want to reduce individual rights regarding abortion, LGBT, promiscuity and adultery I will fight them on it, exactly the same as I fight Christians when they try to push their moral code about these things.   

3.  Bacon/restaurant.   Similar stories have gone around about Tim Hortons and Subway.   The Tim Hortons story is entirely untrue.   Subway stores do not serve pork products in neighborhoods where pork products do not sell; everywhere else, come and get your ham/bacon and sausage sandwich.   Another story claiming a girl was assaulted for serving bacon during ramadan is also untrue.   No doubt the sign in Vermont is equally untrue.  Or perhaps he lives in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and made a business decision and not a Muslim appeasement decision. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/subwayhalal.asp

http://www.snopes.com/dennys-waitress-assaulted-by-muslims/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/subwayhalal.asp

 

[betsy]

16 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  Yes, the desire to live in peace and raising a family is universal.

2.  If people from another culture come to Canada and want to reduce individual rights regarding abortion, LGBT, promiscuity and adultery I will fight them on it, exactly the same as I fight Christians when they try to push their moral code about these things.   

3.  Bacon/restaurant.   Similar stories have gone around about Tim Hortons and Subway.   The Tim Hortons story is entirely untrue.   Subway stores do not serve pork products in neighborhoods where pork products do not sell; everywhere else, come and get your ham/bacon and sausage sandwich.   Another story claiming a girl was assaulted for serving bacon during ramadan is also untrue.   No doubt the sign in Vermont is equally untrue.  Or perhaps he lives in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and made a business decision and not a Muslim appeasement decision. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/subwayhalal.asp

http://www.snopes.com/dennys-waitress-assaulted-by-muslims/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/subwayhalal.asp

 

 

Well....Canada was founded on Christian values.    Whether liberals or anyone want to deny that, doesn't matter.  That's a fact!

The contention between secularists and Christians is part of the landscape of Canada.  But Islam, is not!  Anyway, I think you'd agree that the best way to have a peaceful co-existence, is to screen future new-comers for compatibility with our lifestyle and values. 

 

Problems are coming from certain groups that even bring their "honor-killings" to Canada.  Just look at that highly publicized honor-killing by a Muslim family (Father, second wife and son) - they killed all his daughters!  For what?  Because they're starting to behave like Canadians!

 

I wasn't referring to Tim Horton's.  I understand that it's based on supply and demand.  I was referring to a story that happened ages ago.

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by betsy

[Smallc]

Islam has been a part of this country for a long time.  Deny it if you want - it's a fact!

[dialamah]

Just now, betsy said:

 

Well....Canada is founded on Christian values.    Whether liberals or anyone want to deny that, doesn't matter.  That's a fact!

The contention between secularists and Christians is part of the landscape of Canada.  But Islam, is not!

 

If I'm fighting against having someone's religious moral code imposed, it hardly matters to me what religion they call themselves. 

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, betsy said:

I mean, if he wants to complain - go ahead.  But don't demand that people kowtow to his demand!  But I'm incensed over the stupidity of the owner.  I wonder how his breakfast sale is going now if he's not serving bacon.  Maybe he's decided to have the bacon-haters for his clientele.  If that's the case, that's his choice.

Wait a minute!  I was just using that as an off the top of my head example.  It actually happened?

I know there are delis where people of certain religions have refused to serve certain products when asked.  Accommodation is always an option: 

"Ms Moreopenminded, could you look after this customer please?",

but if Ms Moreopenminded is at the dentist, or otherwise indisposed, the customer better get served or someone should be looking for another job.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Islam has been a part of this country for a long time.  Deny it if you want - it's a fact!

Why would anyone deny it?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If I'm fighting against having someone's religious moral code imposed, it hardly matters to me what religion they call themselves. 

 

Absolutely agree.  If I want a ham sandwich or a wedding cake, I better get one, regardless of the religion of the people involved.

[WestCoastRunner]

33 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Well....Canada was founded on Christian values.    Whether liberals or anyone want to deny that, doesn't matter.  That's a fact!

The contention between secularists and Christians is part of the landscape of Canada.  But Islam, is not!  Anyway, I think you'd agree that the best way to have a peaceful co-existence, is to screen future new-comers for compatibility with our lifestyle and values. 

 

Problems are coming from certain groups that even bring their "honor-killings" to Canada.  Just look at that highly publicized honor-killing by a Muslim family (Father, second wife and son) - they killed all his daughters!  For what?  Because they're starting to behave like Canadians!

 

I wasn't referring to Tim Horton's.  I understand that it's based on supply and demand.  I was referring to a story that happened ages ago.

 

Christian values my ass. If North Americans practised their Christian values, hundreds of thousands of refugees languishing in camps under extreme conditions would be admitted to our countries. Christian values are so hypocritical in Canada and the U.S.  

[WestCoastRunner]

On 2016-11-12 at 7:43 AM, betsy said:

 

 

I viewed a colored clip on tv several days ago.  It's what's happening now to our own FN people.  They aren't white folks, but they are our own!  Their living conditions are just horrible.  If our government can't even solve this problem - why would they take on more?

 

Maybe FN people are better off to go out of Canada.....and come back in as Muslim refugees from Syria. 

Trying to come in as Yazidis and Christian Syrians won't cut it.  Those are not the preferred refugees at all even though they're the targeted groups for systematic atrocities.  Instead of being the first ones for consideration, look how many Yazidis we took in - they gotta shame and force the government to take them before it did.    And even that, only a fraction of them were taken.  They gotta be Muslims!  Their problem will be solved.

 

 

Maybe the FN people need to be white. 

[Argus]

37 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Islam has been a part of this country for a long time.  Deny it if you want - it's a fact!

Evidence?

In the 1971 census there were so few Muslims they didn't even get their own category. They were lumped in with 'religion - other'.

 

 

 

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If I'm fighting against having someone's religious moral code imposed, it hardly matters to me what religion they call themselves. 

 

No, you're fighting to have as many extreme religious fundamentalists come and take up residence in Canada as possible. Not the same thing, at all.

 

 

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Christian values my ass. If North Americans practised their Christian values, hundreds of thousands of refugees languishing in camps under extreme conditions would be admitted to our countries. Christian values are so hypocritical in Canada and the U.S.  

Because it's Christian values to help foreigners who hate Christians rather than helping our own people. Uh huh. What branch of Christianity did you say you were again?

[dialamah]

Just now, Argus said:

No, you're fighting to have as many extreme religious fundamentalists come and take up residence in Canada as possible. Not the same thing, at all.

 

 

Too cute, Argus.   Let me repeat:  if someone from a foreign culture came to Canada and attempted to impose their religious code, I'd fight them - exactly as I would if it were Christians trying to impose their religious code.   Perhaps you could respond to what I DO say instead of what you think I've said.

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, WestCoastRunner said:

Christian values my ass. If North Americans practised their Christian values, hundreds of thousands of refugees languishing in camps under extreme conditions would be admitted to our countries. Christian values are so hypocritical in Canada and the U.S.  

Christian values should apply to the individual Christians only.  The countries have no obligation to adopt them.

Edited November 13, 2016 by bcsapper

[dialamah]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Evidence?

In the 1971 census there were so few Muslims they didn't even get their own category. They were lumped in with 'religion - other'.

 

 

 

The first recorded Muslims in Canadian history were James and Agnes Love, a young couple who had apparently converted to Islam in their native Scotland before they migrated to Canada in 1854, settling in Ontario. These “Mohametans” had several children, including James, who was born just after their arrival. Their youngest son Alexander was born in 1868, one year after Confederation, and secured his spot in history as the first recorded Muslim born in Canada as we know it today.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Too cute, Argus.   Let me repeat:  if someone from a foreign culture came to Canada and attempted to impose their religious code, I'd fight them - exactly as I would if it were Christians trying to impose their religious code.   Perhaps you could respond to what I DO say instead of what you think I've said.

 

Why, that's mighty white of you there! You're going to work like hell to bring over as many people who hate gays and Jews as possible, but once they achieve sufficient numbers to start campaigning to end the rights for gays and Jews or start shooting them down in the streets, why, you'll write a letter of protest!

That'll make it all better, I bet.

 

 

[WestCoastRunner]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because it's Christian values to help foreigners who hate Christians rather than helping our own people. Uh huh. What branch of Christianity did you say you were again?

So it's an either/or when it comes to helping people in need?  That's certainly not a Christian value. 

Do you really think these women and children living in dire circumstances hate foreigners?  Give your head a shake. 

[WestCoastRunner]

16 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Christian values should apply to the individual Christians only.  The countries have no obligation to adopt them.

I was responding to Betsy's post. You missed the point. 

[dialamah]

Just now, Argus said:

Why, that's mighty white of you there! You're going to work like hell to bring over as many people who hate gays and Jews as possible, but once they achieve sufficient numbers to start campaigning to end the rights for gays and Jews or start shooting them down in the streets, why, you'll write a letter of protest!

That'll make it all better, I bet.

 

 

67% (approx 24 million) of Canadians consider themselves Christian; if the anti-abortion, anti-gay fanatics among them couldn't stop the march of Liberal morality, I don't think the anti-abortion and anti-gay Muslims will have any better luck.   Even if they combined forces, I don't think they'd get any farther.

 

[WestCoastRunner]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

Why, that's mighty white of you there! You're going to work like hell to bring over as many people who hate gays and Jews as possible, but once they achieve sufficient numbers to start campaigning to end the rights for gays and Jews or start shooting them down in the streets, why, you'll write a letter of protest!

That'll make it all better, I bet.

 

 

How many of those children of refugees will gather in numbers to overthrow our Canadian values? These are children living without education, exposed to violence, lack of food and health care. Come on Argus. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

67% (approx 24 million) of Canadians consider themselves Christian; if the anti-abortion, anti-gay fanatics among them couldn't stop the march of Liberal morality, I don't think the anti-abortion and anti-gay Muslims will have any better luck.   Even if they combined forces, I don't think they'd get any farther.

 

There is always the question of methods.  Islam does tend to manifest its disapprovals in a more determined manner.

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

There is always the question of methods.  Islam does tend to manifest its disapprovals in a more determined manner.

How is that going to garner support or acquiesence?  Are you going to give into them?  Am I?  Is Argus?   What do suppose would happen if any group attempted acts of terror in order to impose their vision on the rest of us?  

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

How is that going to garner support or acquiesence?  Are you going to give into them?  Am I?  Is Argus?   What do suppose would happen if any group attempted acts of terror in order to impose their vision on the rest of us?  

I really don't know.  But the question you ask does not preclude the circumstances I implied.

Edited November 13, 2016 by bcsapper

[?Impact]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Since we're now in a predominantly liberal society, actually, what values I've got in mind should be asked by a  liberal such as yourself.  You should ask: do they share your values regarding   equality for women?  Abortion?  LGBT?  Promiscuity and adultery? Liberal moral lifestyle? 

You and I don't have the same values that you mention, and I never said you should not be part of Canadian society. Live and let live is the real value, don't impose your desires on someone else. I have no problem if someone doesn't agree with others sexual preference, just don't enforce them to conform to your standard. If you don't agree with promiscuity and adultery, that is your right, just don't demand that of others. If you don't want to get an abortion, then all the power to you, just don't force other women to go through pregnancy and bear children to suit your ideals.

As for bacon, I am about to have some for dinner this evening, and can't understand why anyone would ever pass it by. That doesn't mean however I will force it upon someone. Perhaps they never tried it, and have no idea what they are missing. For years I never tried sushi, and though it was disgusting, but now it ranks up there with bacon for me. Certainly there are cultural differences, and by opening up to other cultures we enrich our own lives.

Yes, religion does play a big role in the evolution of cultures. As you are well aware, I am no proponent of religion. I do however recognize the folly of trying to force people to abandon their beliefs. I accept the premise of freedom of religion, just don't impose your religion on others. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by ?Impact

[WestCoastRunner]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

How is that going to garner support or acquiesence?  Are you going to give into them?  Am I?  Is Argus?   What do suppose would happen if any group attempted acts of terror in order to impose their vision on the rest of us?  

This is why there are protests in the U.S.