.

[Wilber]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You can certainly form a plan around the fact people are pissed. Even if the reasons are badly misplaced or misunderstood. The plan doesn't have to be based in any more reality than the anger - even more so when fear's thrown into the mix.

Yes, pissed people are much easier to manipulate.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

Yes, pissed people are much easier to manipulate.

 

Good enough for Quebec in 1995.

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Good enough for Quebec in 1995.

Not quite good enough but it is a good example.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Not quite good enough but it is a good example.

 

The difference is that Americans didn't worry about it the way some Canadians portend the "collapse of the U.S.A.".

[Wilber]

We aren't the ones who have to worry about it. It's a riveting soap opera though and no one in the rest of the world will ever look at the US political process the same way again.

[bush_cheney2004]

12 minutes ago, Wilber said:

We aren't the ones who have to worry about it. It's a riveting soap opera though and no one in the rest of the world will ever look at the US political process the same way again.

 

That's the way it should be.   The U.S. political process is for the USA, not the rest of the world.   Americans didn't care about the 1995 referendum or Charlottetown Accord circus act, but Trump vs. Hillary is a big deal in Canada ?    Why ?

Edited October 25, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

It's political process is not just for a country that styles itself as the leader of the free world.  

Why? Because it is so outrageous.

[msj]

Because we are being ENTERTAINED!!!

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It's political process is not just for a country that styles itself as the leader of the free world.  

Why? Because it is so outrageous.

 

Leader of the free world ?     Only for those who can't lead their own countries.   

Canada has been playing the outrageous "stranger in their own land" political game for decades...it is normalized...but Americans just don't give a damn.

[Wilber]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Leader of the free world ?    

It's a title you guys invented.

 

 

Quote

Canada has been playing the outrageous "stranger in their own land" political game for decades...it is normalized...but Americans just don't give a damn.

Whatever.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It's a title you guys invented.

Whatever.

 

It was invented by historical circumstances when some folks lost their empire.

[bush_cheney2004]

18 minutes ago, msj said:

Because we are being ENTERTAINED!!!

 

But that's always been true for American media in Canada...has been that way for many generations.  

[Wilber]

18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It was invented by historical circumstances when some folks lost their empire.

All empires come to an end.

[Queenmandy85]

It matters because the POTUS has the ability to start a nuclear war which will kill 90% of the earth's population in the first week.

It matters because the U.S. can help mitigate climate change along with China, India Russia and Europe. 

[kimmy]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

I came across an interview with Bruce Spingsteen this morning in the Globe. Much of it is unrelated to politics, but I thought a part was very in-line with this topic and sounded very true to life.

...

 

He says: “What we see in the States at the moment are the results of 30 or 40 years of neglecting the effects of deindustrialization and globalization on a large part of the population. … The world changed and a lot of people didn’t have the ability or the circumstance or the preparation to change with it. That’s a very difficult thing. If someone told me tomorrow that I couldn’t play music any more, I don’t know what I’d do. I’d be at a complete loss. If your steel mill shuts down, if your factory shuts down, and the job you’ve done for 20 or 30 years goes away, you’re abandoned. You’re orphaned.”

An orphan might be susceptible to a demagogue with a grifter’s confidence and a powerful line in empty promises.

 

I bolded the part that I thought was most important... I think this is something that has been overlooked or ignored in the rise of not just Trump, but also Bernie Sanders and the Brexit.

People talk about the economy in aggregate terms. People throw around ideas like "net benefit" and "creative destruction" to describe the overall benefit that supposedly comes from trade agreements and globalization. "Sure, jobs will be lost in some sectors, but jobs will be created in others!" "Sure, there will be losers, but there will also be winners!"  "Overall, the economy will receive a net benefit." Which is well and good, except for the people on the losing side of the ledger.  Until policy-makers find a better way of sharing the "net benefits" with the people who are on the receiving end of the "creative destruction", the anger and resentment isn't going to go away.

If you're a 55 year old British factory worker who got put out of work by cheap Romanian laborers who came into the country, why not vote to leave the European Union?  "Bad for the economy" doesn't mean a whole lot if you're out of work with no skills and no future prospects. "Bad for the corporations" and "bad for the stock markets" doesn't mean much to you if you don't have a job and don't own any stocks.  The powers that be gave the average Brit a chance to voice their feelings about how they feel about the results of globalization and the "net benefits" they've seen from it, and they were stunned by how negative the reaction was.

And now in the US people have been likewise stunned by how much support Bernie Sanders had, and how much support Donald Trump has.  And the first thing Hillary needs to do on November 9 is talk to the disenchanted millennials that supported Bernie and the angry rust-belt workers who supported Trump, and articulate how she's going to do a better job of sharing the "net benefits" than her predecessors.

 -k

[bush_cheney2004]

Doesn't matter what Clinton says on Nov. 9 or after inauguration in January, she won't have the power to affect the kind of change that Sanders and Trump pretended to wield, especially without control of Congress.   Just like dreamy eyed "Hope and Change" rhetoric from the present U.S. president, Clinton's ideas will be steamrolled by political and economic reality.   At least Bill had some fun while he was playing the game....Hillary won't.

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It matters because the POTUS has the ability to start a nuclear war which will kill 90% of the earth's population in the first week.

It matters because the U.S. can help mitigate climate change along with China, India Russia and Europe. 

 

It would take much longer than that, but Russia, China, France, United Kingdom, India, Pakistan, etc. all have the same potential to start such a war.

Climate change is not an existential threat.

[Wilber]

Fortunately none of them are run by people who become completely unfocused and go into attack mode at the slightest perceived personal insult.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Fortunately none of them are run by people who become completely unfocused and go into attack mode at the slightest perceived personal insult.

 

Are you sure of that ?   Are elections in all nuclear armed nations followed closely in Canada, or just U.S. elections ?

I don't think anybody insulted President Truman.

[Wilber]

Trump goes to Gettysburg to supposedly make a major policy announcement and high on his list is how he is going to sue people who have attacked him personally. It is a pattern he has followed consistently throughout this campaign.

 

No one else had the bomb in 1945.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Wilber said:

Trump goes to Gettysburg to supposedly make a major policy announcement and high on his list is how he is going to sue people who have attacked him personally. It is a pattern he has followed consistently throughout this campaign.

 

Correct...it is the pattern that Trump believes to have contributed to his success.  He only defeated 16 other mainstream Republican candidates with his unfocused, wild man act.   Why would he change it up now ?

 

Quote

No one else had the bomb in 1945.

 

Already discussed....President Reagan joked about bombing the Soviet Union during the 1984 election campaign...he won the election in a huge landslide.

[msj]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Correct...it is the pattern that Trump believes to have contributed to his success.  He only defeated 16 other mainstream Republican candidates with his unfocused, wild man act.   Why would he change it up now ?

 

Because in a two way race it makes little sense to target 35% of the vote. 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, msj said:

Because in a two way race it makes little sense to target 35% of the vote. 

 

What does "sense" have to do with it ?     Following conventional wisdom was never part of the plan.

When Trump loses, he can go back to being a poor billionaire "failure". 

[Wilber]

28 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Correct...it is the pattern that Trump believes to have contributed to his success.  He only defeated 16 other mainstream Republican candidates with his unfocused, wild man act.   Why would he change it up now ?

 

 

 

So you don't think that is the real Trump. Good luck with that.

 

Quote

Already discussed....President Reagan joked about bombing the Soviet Union during the 1984 election campaign...he won the election in a huge landslide.

Ya, the two of them are so much alike. Can't hardly tell the difference.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

So you don't think that is the real Trump. Good luck with that.

Ya, the two of them are so much alike. Can't hardly tell the difference.

 

They called Reagan a demented nut too....while he was in office.   Said he was a bad actor...acting like he was the president.

That's why it really doesn't matter.   The U.S. is more interested in celebrities and sports and just wants the relentless political campaign ads and junk mail to stop.