Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[Bonam]

It's not just the money. It's the actual physically demanding work, it's rural, away from their families etc. These jobs just aren't being filled because Canadians don't want the work.

Shrug. Plenty of people are ok working hard or living in rural areas or spending some time away from friends and family for the right opportunities. I'll quit my job and sign up right now if you pay $200/hour. I have plenty of friends that went out of undergrad to work on remote oil projects in the middle of nowhere in Alberta even though they didn't have any interest in the oil industry, because they were offered $250k+ salaries right out of school.

[WestCoastRunner]

Shrug. Plenty of people are ok working hard or living in rural areas or spending some time away from friends and family for the right opportunities. I'll quit my job and sign up right now if you pay $200/hour. I have plenty of friends that went out of undergrad to work on remote oil projects in the middle of nowhere in Alberta even though they didn't have any interest in the oil industry, because they were offered $250k+ salaries right out of school.

Lol! You think agricultural companies have the same profit margin as oil companies?

[Bonam]

Lol! You think agricultural companies have the same profit margin as oil companies?

What they have is the same choices: if they need more workers than are applying, then raise wages. If you can automate certain jobs cost effectively, automate. If a certain job can't be done cost effectively enough for the end product to be profitable, then the end product can be taken off the market because clearly the market is unwilling to pay what it costs to make. I see no problems with any of these scenarios. People will always need food and will pay what it costs.

[WestCoastRunner]

What they have is the same choices: if they need more workers than are applying, then raise wages. If you can automate certain jobs cost effectively, automate. If a certain job can't be done cost effectively enough for the end product to be profitable, then the end product can be taken off the market because clearly the market is unwilling to pay what it costs to make. I see no problems with any of these scenarios. People will always need food and will pay what it costs.

That's ridiculous. You want a chicken breast for dinner. Fork over 40.00 a lb.

[Bonam]

That's ridiculous. You want a chicken breast for dinner. Fork over 40.00 a lb.

Until someone else realizes they can automate the job and sell it for half that. That's what capitalism is about.

[WestCoastRunner]

Until someone else realizes they can automate the job and sell it for half that. That's what capitalism is about.

So these companies will eventually fold, produce less, pay less taxes and we are out of a good chicken dinner all because we won't let them hire tfw's. Yea makes a lot of sense to me.

[Bonam]

So these companies will eventually fold, produce less, pay less taxes and we are out of a good chicken dinner all because we won't let them hire tfw's. Yea makes a lot of sense to me.

Yeah. Clearly if we don't import TFWs, Canadians will just starve to death because producing and purchasing food is too expensive. No one will build houses because building them is too expensive. No one will sit in offices and push paper because it's too expensive. We'll all just go back to living in caves without TFWs.

Or maybe the market will work as it always has throughout thousands of years of human history, prices will re-adjust as needed, and life will go on? Nah, couldn't be, there is no life without TFWs.

[WestCoastRunner]

Yeah. Clearly if we don't import TFWs, Canadians will just starve to death because producing and purchasing food is too expensive. No one will build houses because building them is too expensive. No one will sit in offices and push paper because it's too expensive. We'll all just go back to living in caves without TFWs.

Or maybe the market will work as it always has throughout thousands of years of human history, prices will re-adjust as needed, and life will go on? Nah, couldn't be, there is no life without TFWs.

You don't get it. If we don't allow tfw's, small business will go under, our hotel rooms won't get cleaned, fresh fruit and vegetables, meat and many other services/goods we take for granted will be gone or insanely expensive.

Not to mention the taxes these companies pay to support our health care, education, infrastructure etc.

Allowing tfw's is not the end of Canada. The sky will not fall upon Canada, life would still exist as we know it.

[TimG]

Allowing tfw's is not the end of Canada. The sky will not fall upon Canada, life would still exist as we know it.

TFWs put downward pressure on worker wages because businesses can always pick a wage that is too low to recruit Canadians and then complain that they can't find people. But you are correct,the world won't end if the incomes of the middle class are further eroded by competition with low wage countries within Canada in addition to competition from abroad. Edited September 8, 2016 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Do Canadians who oppose TFWs still want the option of getting work visas in other nations, thereby displacing and undercutting wages in those countries ?

[WestCoastRunner]

TFWs put downward pressure on worker wages because businesses can always pick a wage that is too low to recruit Canadians and then complain that they can't find people. But you are correct,the world won't end if the incomes of the middle class is further eroded by competition within Canada in addition to competition from abroad.

.

You completely missed my points or chose just to ignore them. Is middle class seriously eroded because they won't work in agricultural jobs or meat packing plants or clean hotel rooms or serve coffee? Give me a break.

[Bonam]

Do Canadians who oppose TFWs still want the option of getting work visas in other nations, thereby displacing and undercutting wages in those countries ?

Each country should make its own rules for temporary foreign workers, immigration, etc as is most beneficial for its people and economy.

[WestCoastRunner]

Each country should make its own rules for temporary foreign workers, immigration, etc as is most beneficial for its people and economy.

Well said. I agree completely.

[TimG]

Do Canadians who oppose TFWs still want the option of getting work visas in other nations, thereby displacing and undercutting wages in those countries ?

Reciprocal relationships with countries with similar cost of living like the US is a different story. I don't think anyone has any issue with US engineers and scientists working in Canada as TFWs. The test of TFWs is to ask what percentage of he workforce is TFWs? If the percentage is small then TFWs are being used to fill skill gaps and are a net benefit. If the percentage is large then TFWs are being used to import cheap labour.

[TimG]

You completely missed my points or chose just to ignore them. Is middle class seriously eroded because they won't work in agricultural jobs or meat packing plants or clean hotel rooms or serve coffee? Give me a break.

The Royal Bank wanted to fire its IT dept and hire TFWs. A Chinese coal miner wanted to import Chinese miners. Mining is usually good paying work. So yes, TFWs will erode the wages of the middle class because they are not limited the low end of the labour market you envision.

[WestCoastRunner]

The Royal Bank wanted to fire its IT dept and hire TFWs. A Chinese coal miner wanted to import Chinese miners. Mining is usually good paying work. So yes, TFWs will erode the wages of the middle class because they are not limited the low end of the labour market you envision.

Clearly I have a problem with rbc. I was referring to small businesses who can't find workers. You chose to ignore my posts and twisted them to fit your agenda.

[WestCoastRunner]

And btw. I do agree that companies that can afford to raise wages should. I am all for raising minimum wage but you guys would be the first to argue against it.

[TimG]

And btw. I do agree that companies that can afford to raise wages should. I am all for raising minimum wage but you guys would be the first to argue against it.

We provide social programs to ensure people are not destitute. This gives workers a certain amount of bargaining power which means there is no need for minimum wage. This bargaining power is undercut if low wage TFWs are allowed in en-mass. My main concern about minimum wages is it reduces the number of jobs available to Canadians. TFWs do the same so my views are consistent. Your views, OTOH, are completely contradictory. Edited September 8, 2016 by TimG

[Hal 9000]

Mainly the ocean. It's impossible to walk from the Middle East to Canada, which means the likelihood of tens of thousands of refugees overunning our border is non-existent.

As to what's happening as a result of all these refugees arriving in Europe, I think its worthwhile keeping an eye on that. At the same time when I hear or read on here, FB, and other such places about some scary terrible thing happening over there because "Islam", I almost always discover, when investigated, that its completely blown out of proportion.

Not only is it not "blown out of proportion" its actually downplayed to a large extent.

[WestCoastRunner]

We provide social programs to ensure people are not destitute. This gives workers a certain amount of bargaining power which means there is no need for minimum wage. This bargaining power is undercut if low wage TFWs are allowed in en-mass. My main concern about minimum wages is it reduces the number of jobs available to Canadians. TFWs do the same so my views are consistent. Your views, OTOH, are completely contradictory.

You need to do more research on jobs that Canadians won't do. I'm not going to do it for you or anyone else. I'm done with this thread.

Edited September 8, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[TimG]

You need to do more research on jobs that Canadians won't do.

You mean Canadians won't do at the wage rates offered. You seem to think that letting in TFWs so businesses don't have to pay more is a good thing but you also want to force businesses to pay more even when they can find workers. It is logically inconsistent.

[Bonam]

And btw. I do agree that companies that can afford to raise wages should. I am all for raising minimum wage but you guys would be the first to argue against it.

There's a world of difference between companies raising wages for the positions they need because they are competing to find workers, and the government legislating a higher minimum wage.

[WestCoastRunner]

There's a world of difference between companies raising wages for the positions they need because they are competing to find workers, and the government legislating a higher minimum wage.

Nice try guys.

[Bonam]

Nice try guys.

You don't understand the difference?

[WestCoastRunner]

You don't understand the difference?

What a bunch of bs. This thread is so biased it's ridiculous. I tried to introduce thoughts from 'the other side' but I'm so disillusioned that I can't even bother anymore.