Canadian Immigration

[?Impact]

Well you said you wanted us to have an export based economy.... So something we can make and export might be useful. LOL.

Germany has a great export economy, without the compromises.

[eyeball]

The idea that we need to perpetually grow population is a 19th century thinking that cannot continue forever. We need to embrace the future where automation greatly reduces the need for workers.

Excuse me but what do we do with the moral imperative to produce and carry one's own weight themselves in the future when there is no work available that needs doing? I'm assuming everything will be free otherwise we'll need to eat each other. If so we're going to need more people no matter what.

[Argus]

Not rosey assumptions. The have statistics on how each immigrant class effects GDP, and per capita GPD. Doubling the number of Business and Economic class immigrants would raise immigrant wages 5% which be enough to cause both GDP and per capita GDP to grow.

Except that didn't happen when the Conservatives raised the number of economic class immigrants. In fact, their economic performance deteriorated.

“During the past quarter century, the earnings gap between recent immigrants and Canadian-born workers widened significantly... In 1980, recent immigrant men... earned 85 cents for each dollar received by Canadian-

born men... the corresponding number was 67 cents in 2000... (and) by 2005, the ratio had dropped to 63 cents” (Statistics Canada, 2008:21)

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/fiscal-transfers-to-immigrants-in-canada.pdf

The rising number of new immigrants who are living in poverty in Canada is a “tinderbox” that could explode into an “inferno,” a new study warns. More than 36 per cent of immigrants who have been in the country for less than five years live in poverty, according to the latest Canadian Labour Market Report. That compares to 25 per cent in the 1980s.

http://vancouversun.com/life/growing-poverty-among-canadian-immigrants-could-explode-study

Edited August 19, 2016 by Argus

[Bonam]

Is it possible to have a high standard of life and a vibrant economy without population growth? Probably... But that's not how our economic system is designed. We would need a whole new system for that.

Most demographic projections I've seen predict world population peaking later this century and then declining or stabilizing. We, as well as every other country, will eventually need to figure out how to make our economy work with a stable or even slowly declining population. Why not lead the way in this regard rather than scrambling for immigrants?

There are plenty of overpopulated countries in the world; Canada is one of the few that is mostly pristine wilderness with natural capital that is vastly abundant per citizen, why change that?

[Argus]

Immigrants don;t help with retirees because they often bring their parents and don't have children in excess of what Canadians have. All we need are enough immigrants to make sure the population does not shrink.

The idea immigration will in any way compensate for an aging population seems to be a popular cultural one but has no real basis in fact.

Even so, immigration rates equal to 1% of the already resident population would not prevent workforce growth in Canada dipping to historic lows in the 2020s, and the immigration that would be needed—even with major efforts to attract a larger share of younger people—to maintain workforce growth at its recent rate would be well outside the realm of economic or political feasibility. Aging is more difficult yet. Increasing immigration to 1% of population a year without varying its age distribution would slow the rise in the OAD ratio only marginally. And raising immigration to this level while trying to select only very young immigrants with children, so as to lower dramatically the average age of immigrants, would still not prevent a historic rise in the ratio. Only extreme and unpalatable policies, such as rapidly increasing immigration from less than 1% of the population to well over 3% for decades, could come close to stabilizing the OAD ratio.

A study by the RAND Corporation (Grant et al., 2004), for example, looked at the demographic consequences of low fertility in Europe and reached conclusions broadly similar to ours on the question of whether immigration could compensate for the demographic challenges faced by EU nations. Schertmann (1992) shows that a constant inflow of immigrants, even relatively young ones, does not necessarily rejuvenate low fertility populations, and may in the long term actually contribute to population aging. Specific studies on Canada (United Nations, 2004; Denton and Spencer, 2004; Guillemette and Robson, 2006) have found that the dynamic of aging among the resident population is so strong that immigration’s ability to affect it is remarkably small.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/EffectsofMassImmigration.pdf

[Argus]

None of which has any relationship, however, with the actual topic of why we are bringing over hundreds of thousands of Chinese temporary foreign workers...

[bjre]

None of which has any relationship, however, with the actual topic of why we are bringing over hundreds of thousands of Chinese temporary foreign workers...

They contribute tax, they don't bring grand parents.

Without Chinese kuli, there would not be Pacific railway that Canada has used for more than a hundred year.

Those works are not the kind that workers with unions can do.

Edited August 19, 2016 by bjre

[dre]

Germany has a great export economy, without the compromises.

Yes... but Germans MAKE STUFF.

[WestCoastRunner]

None of which has any relationship, however, with the actual topic of why we are bringing over hundreds of thousands of Chinese temporary foreign workers...

You need to go back and read your OP.

[WestCoastRunner]

Yes... but Germans MAKE STUFF.

And which is why they are allowing immigrants/refugees. They need them.

[dre]

And in any case, we are bringing in older immigrants, not younger ones.

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

Immigrants don;t help with retirees because they often bring their parents and don't have children in excess of what Canadians have. All we need are enough immigrants to make sure the population does not shrink.

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

[WestCoastRunner]

And in any case, we are bringing in older immigrants, not younger ones.

"Pandering to a crowd of indo-Canadian voters, Trudeau promised to open up immigration to more family class immigrants (as Mulcair has done) and let people bring over their parents and grandparents.

This is not a tiny problem. Roughly 40,000 of the newcomers Canada admits each year are the older parents or grandparents of new citizens. Under Kenney, the Immigration department estimated Grandma and Grandpa Immigrant were costing Canadian taxpayers between $1.5 and $2 billion annually. Thats the amount left over after adding up the economic and tax contributions of older family-class immigrants and subtracting the social benefits they received.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/26/justin-trudeau-has-the-wrong-idea-on-immigration

The article you linked to says they want to increase the number of international students.

[Bonam]

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years, compared to the Canadian-born population median age of 37.3

So to reduce Canada's average age by 1 year, we would need to bring in 6.25 million immigrants at the current age mix. Does that sound like a viable plan to reduce the average age of the population to you?

(Sorry the above calculation assumed that the stats were mean ages rather than median ages, so it's likely a bit off. But probably still pretty close).

Edited August 19, 2016 by Bonam

[bjre]

Yeah, pretty much. Books, Teachers, Falun Gong at Edmonton Farmer's Market, that sort of thing.

A horrifying documentary.

Many documentary tells lies.

China has been keeping hundreds of thousands of Falun Gong members in concentration camps, killing them and harvesting their organs.

Originally, Falun Gong is just an organization that attract people to do excise to improve their health by lies. When it becomes big, US used it, then it become a tool of CIA, when China find it and ban it, most people left that organization and find other ways to do physical exercise. The head of it who said himself is a god move to US. Many people who wanted to become US resident join it in US so that they can say they can not go back to China. During that period, they told lots of lies, or intensionally misleading stories, some of it became documentary.

Canada should stand up against this barbarity and be wary about any trade deals or treaties with China.

Except tell their own lies, many politicians enjoy use lies created by others for their own agenda, no matter they know it was lies or not.

From your post I can see, actually, you know nothing about China. You are just another one who want to cost my time again. I have many post talking about this topic. You can search forum to find it.

There are much more newspapers, TV/radio stations, magazines, books in China than here in Canada. Even now, I buy most books either from US or from China, not in Canada.

I also watch BBC, ABC, listen VOA sometimes when I was in China. Especially VOA special English in a slow speed to improve my English listening skill.

I used infoseek, yahoo, altervister to search in the web before I know google and later I use Baidu quite often.

Before Falun Gun used by US as anti-China tool, several my friends practice it. After that, they practice other things like TaiJi and hundreds of others. They are very well now in China, now one of my friend even become a leader of a department of one of the top Universities in China.

Now, Falun Gun, most oversea Chinese know it is just one of the CIA supported anti-Chinese governement organizations whose work is create rumors for a little small money.

When you search google for lot of other things, it appeared on the top of the result, see how corporate media work with CIA to fool you?

[TimG]

Newcomers have a median age of 31.7 years

Median does not mean much. What matters is the distribution. More importantly, those 30 year immigrants today will only increase the pension/healthcare requirements in 40 years so bring in immigrants cannot possibly make the problem easier to managed unless the number of immigrants increases exponentially. Such as policy is simply not sustainable over the long term and I see no reason to continue it today. There are other ways to deal with the aging population.

[bjre]

Okay. I'm fine with that. Chinese trade brings little of benefit to any other country. They cheat on all the rules and they make sure the play favors them. Boeing went over there and built a plant to build them airliners. Soon the Chinese will be selling airliners to the world and Boeing will be closing down its American plants, and you'll still be crowing about how great a deal that was.

That's lie. When China start built Yu-10, US air craft companies went to China, said they are advanced, so China's own air plane development stoped for more than 10 years, after US stop cooperate with China, China resumed its research and development and created big plane. Sometimes, China is just a lazy country, when you give it technology, they would like to use yours, when you don't give it, or you don't have it, it has the ability to create its own. Because their education is better than Canada's, especially, they don't have CAS to disturb parents and teachers from teaching the kids.

Snapchat and Kik, the messaging services, use bar codes that look like drunken checkerboards to connect people and share information with a snap of their smartphone cameras. Facebook is working on adding the ability to hail rides and make payments within its Messenger app. Facebook and Twitter have begun live-streaming video.

All of these developments have something in common: The technology was first popularized in China.

But China’s tech industry — particularly its mobile businesses — has in some ways pulled ahead of the United States. Some Western tech companies, even the behemoths, are turning to Chinese firms for ideas.

“We just see China as further ahead,” said Ted Livingston, the founder of Kik, which is headquartered in Waterloo, Ontario.

The shift suggests that China could have a greater say in the global tech industry’s direction. Already in China, more people use their mobile devices to pay their bills, order services, watch videos and find dates than anywhere else in the world. Mobile payments in the country last year surpassed those in the United States. By some estimates, loans from a new breed of informal online banks called peer-to-peer lenders did too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/technology/china-mobile-tech-innovation-silicon-valley.html?_r=0

[dre]

Median does not mean much. What matters is the distribution. More importantly, those 30 year immigrants today will only increase the pension/healthcare requirements in 40 years so bring in immigrants cannot possibly make the problem easier to managed unless the number of immigrants increases exponentially. Such as policy is simply not sustainable over the long term and I see no reason to continue it today. There are other ways to deal with the aging population.

Well you run from your own claims so much its hard to keep up. You said immigrants are older... I pointed out that they are not. I did not endorse any big plan to bring down the average age using immigration.

[cybercoma]

Immigrants don;t help with retirees because they often bring their parents

We can look up the numbers, you know. I posted them earlier. The most recent figures show a paltry 7% of immigration going to parents. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2014/permanent/02.asp

[cybercoma]

Except that didn't happen when the Conservatives raised the number of economic class immigrants. In fact, their economic performance deteriorated.

During the past quarter century, the earnings gap between recent immigrants and Canadian-born workers widened significantly... In 1980, recent immigrant men... earned 85 cents for each dollar received by Canadian-

born men... the corresponding number was 67 cents in 2000... (and) by 2005, the ratio had dropped to 63 cents (Statistics Canada, 2008:21)

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/fiscal-transfers-to-immigrants-in-canada.pdf

The rising number of new immigrants who are living in poverty in Canada is a tinderbox that could explode into an inferno, a new study warns. More than 36 per cent of immigrants who have been in the country for less than five years live in poverty, according to the latest Canadian Labour Market Report. That compares to 25 per cent in the 1980s.

http://vancouversun.com/life/growing-poverty-among-canadian-immigrants-could-explode-study

Why is that?

...Canadian companies now routinely demand Canadian work experience simply as a way to screen out thousands of potential job applicants. The practice smacks of discrimination. University of Toronto economist Philip Oreopoulos sent thousands of resumés to posted job ads and found that changing the name on a resumé from anglophone to Indian or Chinese reduced responses from employers by 50 per cent, with most employers saying they assume a foreign name meant the worker had poor English...

American employers are likely just as discriminatory as Canadian companies, but because workers need a job offer to immigrate, that discrimination tends to happen before prospective immigrants have been given a work permit and have made plans to move to a new country.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/land-of-misfortune/

Meanwhile, the immigrants we get are far more educated than ever with the vast majority holding universities degrees. They're unable to find work because they are discriminated against, plain and simple. Not because they're unqualified or incapable of working, nor are they freeloading. They're looking for work and getting half as many calls with the same resume as people with anglo sounds names.

Edited August 19, 2016 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Please, tell me how racism and discrimination is dead though.

[?Impact]

Median does not mean much. What matters is the distribution.

Median is about the distribution. I agree a more thorough distribution would be helpful, but if you want a single figure to simply the comparison then media is the best one to use.

[cybercoma]

Median tells you at exactly which point the distribution is split 50/50. Half are older, half are younger. If the median age of immigrants is 31, that tells you a lot about the distribution.

[cybercoma]

Why is requiring experience for a job that can be verified with a phone call discriminatory? Why is this different from rejecting a resume because of a spelling error? Filtering resumes, by the nature of the process, is an arbitrary exercise. Many applicants look identical on paper and you cannot possibility interview everyone. So people make snap decisions for any number of reasons. Filtering based on a perception of English language skills is rational. They are working to replace human filters with AIs which will help with some of these but no AI will help if the candidate does not demonstrate adequate English skills in a interview.

These are stupid questions. Rejecting an identical resume based on the name alone is he same as rejecting a spelling error? Are you for real?

[TimG]

Median tells you at exactly which point the distribution is split 50/50. Half are older, half are younger. If the median age of immigrants is 31, that tells you a lot about the distribution.

It does not give you any information about the variance. A flat distribution which mirrors the existing population distribution will do absolutely nothing to help with the demographic issue. A narrow distribution could, in theory, help if you exponentially increased immigrants over time. My argument is the distribution is relatively flat which makes immigration useless as means to address the demographic issue. We need another solution. Edited August 19, 2016 by TimG

[TimG]

Rejecting an identical resume based on the name alone is he same as rejecting a spelling error? Are you for real?

Why are they different? Both are petty and likely irrelevant to the worth of the applicant. They are just two examples of petty or irrelevant information that go into the process of filtering resumes.

One thing you need to keep in mind: statistically speaking a foreign name is more likely to have English communication issues so it is rational to reject resumes on that basis. The danger with statistics is people are individuals - not statistical groups and making decisions based on statistics is unfair to individuals. Of course identifying candidates by their association with statistical groups is the basis for affirmative action so people who support such practices can't really complain when the same approach is used for other statistical groupings.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TimG