Big Guy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I believe that with globalization, citizenship will lose any importance. Not sure if it has any function at this time. Who cares if you were born here or not? What difference does it make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I've said it before and I'll say it again; so long as we insist that the world be borderless as far as our money and corporations go humanity should feel as free to send as many people here as it likes. Edited August 8, 2016 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I believe that with globalization, citizenship will lose any importance. Not sure if it has any function at this time. Who cares if you were born here or not? What difference does it make? Ask Europe how much they are likeing open borders right now. Edited August 8, 2016 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Ask Europe how much they are likeing open borders right now. What has that got to do with citizenship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 What has that got to do with citizenship? Everything, without it you have open borders. You cannot refuse a Canadian citizen entry into Canada, you can refuse non citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Everything, without it you have open borders. You cannot refuse a Canadian citizen entry into Canada, you can refuse non citizens. There are about 100,000 "illegal" immigrants right now in Canada. It is approximated that about 20,000 sneak in every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 There are about 100,000 "illegal" immigrants right now in Canada. It is approximated that about 20,000 sneak in every year. Just let everyone in then there will be no illegal immigrants because without citizenship you will never know who a Canadian is where they came from or why they are here. Your solution to everything seems to be to do nothing regardless of the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 The countries they want to live in. Every country has its own visa requirements and tax laws. ... Ah, so it has nothing to do with Canadian citizenship - even golden haloed ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Ah, so it has nothing to do with Canadian citizenship - even golden haloed ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 So no immigrants from China then? Except for spouses, and the rare exception yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I've said it before and I'll say it again; so long as we insist that the world be borderless as far as our money and corporations go humanity should feel as free to send as many people here as it likes. Again, that is ecocide. Disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 You've seen Vancouver lately...right? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Again, that is ecocide. Disgusting.Pity the environment? Little late in the day to be worried about that don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) I'm curious at how you think things would be different if we did not allow citizenship at birth. What would happen then? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding ). What happens now? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding) Why would citizenship be granted to these 'wannabees"? If you have no Canadian parents then you are not Canadian. End of story. You are a citizen of the country your parents are from. I was born in Germany to Canadian parents. As far as the government is concerned I was born a Canadian, and as far as the Germans are concerned I was born to foreign parents and am not entitled to German citizenship. Why does this confuse you? Edited August 8, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Lordy, we do give citizenship to anyone that asks for it. Right now. Plus we give citizenship to anyone that is born here - always have. Canadian citizens can come and go as they wish. If Canadians want to live in some other country then they are allowed to do so for as long as they wish to do so. I'm curious at how you think things would be different if we did not allow citizenship at birth. What would happen then? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding ). What happens now? These wannabe's would have to apply for citizenship which would eventually be granted (assuming they be law abiding) The difference? None that I can see. ETA: Except one can happen right now and the other will maybe happen 18 years from now soonest. I agree. There are the self described nationalists and racists who believe in entitlement by birth. Born here makes you a "real" Canadian and if your parents were born here then you have Canadian blood in you. Those other folks are pretenders - especially those who do not look like or talk like real Canadians. This is nothing new. There was a guy in Germany who thought that only those who had blue eyes and blond hair had a real right to be considered citizens. The idea of "racial purity" is nothing new and does allow those racists to feel superior to those "others" who have the audacity to consider themselves the same as the home born entitled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I agree. There are the self described nationalists and racists who believe in entitlement by birth. Born here makes you a "real" Canadian and if your parents were born here then you have Canadian blood in you. Those other folks are pretenders - especially those who do not look like or talk like real Canadians. This is nothing new. Being born here to Canadian citizens entitles you to citizenship because you have no other citizenship. That is not the case with tourists. It has nothing to do with racism. Can't make a decent argument, pull out the racism card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Being born here to Canadian citizens entitles you to citizenship because you have no other citizenship. That is not the case with tourists. It has nothing to do with racism. Can't make a decent argument, pull out the racism card. Is this really such a problem that we need to change long standing legal reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Is this really such a problem that we need to change long standing legal reality? Who knows, maybe it should never have been the reality, but I've heard that everything liberals believe in must be the best thing, so maybe it shouldn't change. We don't want to be not nice, so much of our national identity seems to be wrapped up in how big of a doormat we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Why would citizenship be granted to these 'wannabees"? If you have no Canadian parents then you are not Canadian. End of story. You are a citizen of the country your parents are from. I was born in Germany to Canadian parents. As far as the government is concerned I was born a Canadian, and as far as the Germans are concerned I was born to foreign parents and am not entitled to German citizenship. Why does this confuse you? It doesn't confuse me at all, Argus. It seems to confuse you though. Is not this 'Birth House' issue that children born here are granted Canadian citizenship no matter what thier parents citizenship is? It doesn't confuse me at all that being born of Canadian citizens in Germany that Germany did not grant you German citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) A plane ticket makes you wealthy? Investing a few thousand dollars in obtaining a Canadian passport which will be worth a fortune in future is an excellent investment for anyone. For one thing, it will allow the parents to be sponsored into Canada by their "Canadian" child one day, and get Canadian pensions and health care. It costs thousands. From the article: Visiting pregnant mothers must pre-register with a VCH physician and pay $7,000 to $8,000 to the hospital for a vaginal delivery and $12,000 to $13,000 for a Caesarian. Doctors charge patients separately for their fees. The Ministry of Health sets the fees hospitals can charge non-Canadians for medically necessary services. -------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think it should be allowed as a backdoor for the parents to become citizens. That's cheating the system. They should have to apply and be accepted like every other potential immigrant. Australia has repealed their "citizenship by birth" for this same reason. Canada should do the same. Edited August 8, 2016 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Is this really such a problem that we need to change long standing legal reality? Do you put such little value on your citizenship that you are willing to give it to anyone who would come here on a vacation just to get their child a Canadian passport? Don't you think that is an insult to real immigrants who come here and go through all the requirements we demand of them to become citizens? We have changed all kinds of long standing legal realities in our history, for the simple reason that they were wrong or being used for reasons that were never intended. Edited August 8, 2016 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 Do you put such little value on your citizenship that you are willing to give it to anyone who would come here on a vacation just to get their child a Canadian passport? Don't you think that is an insult to real immigrants who come here and go through all the requirements we demand of them to become citizens? We have changed all kinds of long standing legal realities in our history, for the simple reason that they were wrong or being used for reasons that were never intended. I don't disagree with your conclusion... but the hyperbole is a bit much. It doesn't "devalue" anyone's citizenship. It doesn't insult real immigrants... it's just cheating the system that needs to be rectified. We don't need all the hyperbole and rhetoric to determine it's a problem. In fact, hyperbole and rhetoric distract from the actual issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I don't disagree with your conclusion... but the hyperbole is a bit much. It doesn't "devalue" anyone's citizenship. It doesn't insult real immigrants... it's just cheating the system that needs to be rectified. We don't need all the hyperbole and rhetoric to determine it's a problem. In fact, hyperbole and rhetoric distract from the actual issue. The value of anything is what you can sell it for. We put a high but fair value on it for people who want to live here. We put no value on it for people who just want their kid born here. China does not recognize dual citizenship or birth citizenship by non residents. I agree it is cheating the system and it does need to be rectified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Do you put such little value on your citizenship that you are willing to give it to anyone who would come here on a vacation just to get their child a Canadian passport? Don't you think that is an insult to real immigrants who come here and go through all the requirements we demand of them to become citizens? We have changed all kinds of long standing legal realities in our history, for the simple reason that they were wrong or being used for reasons that were never intended. I think that it is a compliment that any couple would want their child to be a Canadian citizen. I value my citizenship very much and I do not give out a citizenship arbitrarily. A person who qualifies under the conditions we have outlined is entitled to the privilege. Edited August 8, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 8, 2016 Report Share Posted August 8, 2016 I think that it is a compliment that any couple would want their child to be a Canadian citizen. I value my citizenship very much and I do not give out a citizenship arbitrarily They don't want their child to be a Canadian citizen, they want them to have a spare citizenship that they can exercise at their convenience. You give out your citizenship for the price of a plane ticket and a hotel room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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