26 birth houses identified used by Mainland Chinese.

[G Huxley]

It's pretty pointless talking about immigration with people who don't even know how the immigration process works.

Its pretty obvious how it works. You book a birthing home in Vancouver fly to Canada give birth to a kid and then fly back to your home country.

[G Huxley]

And Canada's red party are busy kowtowing to their masters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08/10/liberals-increase-chinese-investment-migrants_n_11434858.html

Edited August 16, 2016 by G Huxley

[eyeball]

The move, designed to give Canada’s economy a boost in the midst of a soft patch, comes as concerns grow that illicit cash from China is pumping up house prices, particularly in Vancouver.

Illicit cash? I have no doubt the money moving into Vancouver was earned on the backs of the working poor and their environment quite legally with the blessings of China's government and the hearty encouragement of conservative economists here at home.

[cybercoma]

Still no one considers the impact this has on Canadian sellers​. They want legislation to cool down the market but doesn't this have an adverse effect on Canadian who own homes and want to sell them there?

[G Huxley]

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/business-news/canada-aims-to-spread-chinese-immigrants-across-country-john-mccallum/

I'm not allowed to express what I actually think of this here. We are already becoming China.

[Bonam]

Still no one considers the impact this has on Canadian sellers​. They want legislation to cool down the market but doesn't this have an adverse effect on Canadian who own homes and want to sell them there?

Since when were you concerned about preserving the wealth of the 1%?

[cybercoma]

I'm very concerned. They'll pack and leave and take our jobs with them if they can't make more money.

[cybercoma]

If it was actually a serious question, I'm sure there's many people who bought homes there many years before the bubble.

If you want my idealized world, there wouldn't be a free market for land and homes.

[TimG]

If it was actually a serious question, I'm sure there's many people who bought homes there many years before the bubble.

The property market is inflated by two important government policies: CHMC insured mortgages and tax free capital gains. Given the fact that the value of every property has been inflated due to public policies put in place for the 'public good' (i.e. encouraging home ownership) anyone owning a home does not really have any business complaining if the government now chooses to deflate those property values for the same reason.

If it was a real free market with no CHMC loans and taxable capital gains then there would be grounds for complaint.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TimG

[cybercoma]

If there was no CMHC, banks would still issue mortgages because they like money.

[TimG]

If there was no CMHC, banks would still issue mortgages because they like money.

But it would be a lot tougher to qualify for loans. For example, if you don't have a CMHC mortgage you need 20% down. This has the effect of increasing demand for housing which increases prices. Note that I did not say the property market would not exist without CHMC - only that prices are inflated as a result of CMHC. IOW, if the government interferes in the market in a way that inflates prices then it should not be an issue if they interfere in a way that deflates prices.

[cybercoma]

But it would be a lot tougher to qualify for loans.

You assume. But then not so long ago, banks in a similar country were selling off debt notes and gaming the system on subprime mortgages. You can blame CMHC all you want but I highly doubt an open market would be any better once banks started competing for customers.

[TimG]

You assume. But then not so long ago, banks in a similar country were selling off debt notes and gaming the system on subprime mortgages.

Fanny and Freddy are the US equivalent of the CMHC and they played exactly the same role in creating the bubble and collapse. Without Fanny and Freddy there would have been no 2008 crisis.

This link explains the mechanics of how Fanny and Freddie influence the market (you have to read beyond the headline):

https://www.thebalance.com/did-fannie-and-freddie-cause-the-mortgage-crisis-3305659

It ends with this comment:

Elimination of Fannie and Freddie would dramatically reduce the availability of mortgages and increase the cost. Banks have not, and would not, step in to guarantee mortgages. Studies have shown that, without Fannie and Freddie, mortgage interest rates could go as high as 9-10%. That would damage the housing market before it had any chance to recover. (Source: Barron's, Life After the Old Fannie and Freddie, September 15, 2008)

Bottom line: CMHC inflates housing prices.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TimG

[dre]

So Canadian citizenship is worth a joke at a cocktail party abroad? Yeah you really value this country.

Well, if you consider citizenship valuable you have to ask how a person that happens to squirt out of a Canadian uterus, has done more to earn that value than someone that squirts out of a foreign visitors uterus. Why would you think that person would make a better citizen?

In any case immigration policy is driven by population control, which is an important part of managing wage and price stability. This kind of thing should be monitored, and if it becomes necessary the policy should be changed or capped to a quota.

[dre]

Fanny and Freddy are the US equivalent of the CMHC and they played exactly the same role in creating the bubble and collapse. Without Fanny and Freddy there would have been no 2008 crisis.

Actually the central banks all did studies on the recession and found that Fanny and Freddy had a negligible impact. The biggest factors were low interest rates, securitization itself, collateralize debt obligations, and crooked ratings agencies.

Once that combination was in place a bubble was guaranteed. Banks no longer cared about screening borrowers because they knew they could just collect those fees and get the loans off their books by putting them in a multi tranche MBS, and that would be rated triple AAA by corrupted ratings agencies, and immediately bought up by investors. Private banks were making loans to homeless people... even dogs in some cases.

Fanny and Freddy actually how much lower levels of toxic loans than private banks.

Edited August 18, 2016 by dre

[Bonam]

I'm very concerned. They'll pack and leave and take our jobs with them if they can't make more money.

If it was actually a serious question, I'm sure there's many people who bought homes there many years before the bubble.

It was a serious question in light of your post I quoted. And umm... the people who bought homes there many years before the bubble are precisely the people that made off like bandits and are now in the upper echelons of the 1% even if they started as lower middle class.

Those who bought homes very recently (within the last year) may not be millionaires (and in fact are very likely in a very difficult financial position where 70-90% of their income goes to paying their mortgage) but most other Vancouver home owners are, given that home prices have risen 46% in the last year. The average price for a detached home is now $1.7 million. If you bought it 1 year ago, before it went up by 46%, you paid $1.16 million. If you made a 20% down payment then ($232k), you now have $772k of home equity (not including any principle you paid off in that 1 year). If you bought it any more than 1 year ago, it's gone up more since then and you are even richer.

So no, I won't be heartbroken if a Vancouver home owner who bought their house for $200k back in the 90s can only sell it for $1.5 million instead of $2 million.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Bonam

[G Huxley]

Well, if you consider citizenship valuable you have to ask how a person that happens to squirt out of a Canadian uterus, has done more to earn that value than someone that squirts out of a foreign visitors uterus. Why would you think that person would make a better citizen?

That person would be descended from those who who built this country, so they are continuing the legacy, cultures and traditions of this country. If you think the Chinese would do a better job. Go live in China for awhile.

"In any case immigration policy is driven by population control, which is an important part of managing wage and price stability. This kind of thing should be monitored, and if it becomes necessary the policy should be changed or capped to a quota."

No immigration policy is currently driven by the State's desire for population increase. This is disastrous, short sighted and insane.

Meanwhile the limousine liberals are riding fat on the hog again: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/liberal-health-minister-spent-1700-in-one-day-on-limousine-service-to-travel-around-greater-toronto-area

Edited August 18, 2016 by G Huxley

[Bonam]

That person would be descended from the built who built this country, so they are continuing the legacy, cultures and traditions of this country. If you think the Chinese would do a better job. Go live in China for awhile.

Well, the Chinese would do a better job than a lot of the alternatives

[G Huxley]

There are lots of picks of people who have messed up their countries beyond recognition. Maybe we should start considering how good Canada is now and preserve that instead of recklessly, irresponsibly and unwisely bringing other people's problems here.

Edited August 18, 2016 by G Huxley

[TimG]

Actually the central banks all did studies on the recession and found that Fanny and Freddy had a negligible impact. The biggest factors were low interest rates, securitization itself, collateralize debt obligations, and crooked ratings agencies.

There were many contributing factors and eliminating any one of those factors would have prevented the collapse. The Fanny and Freddy created the bubble in the first place by making it easier to get loans. The private sector only stepped in after prices started rising fast enough to attract interest in their CDOs. Obviously, if those CDOs were better regulated the crisis would not have happened either.

Trying to blame a complex event on a single cause is a waste of time. There are always multiple contributing factors.

[dre]

Trying to blame a complex event on a single cause is a waste of time. There are always multiple contributing factors.

I didn't, I blamed it on the four major causes that the all the reports and studies found were the main contributors. You are right though that government backed mortgage DO put upwards pressure on housing prices. But super low interest rates put a whole lot more.

And the reality is...

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics.

* Fanny and Freddy actually decreased their exposure to these loans prior to the crisis. They were one of the only rational actors.

[BC_chick]

People who have a citizenship simply based on getting around loopholes, with no interest in the actual Canadian state often living abroad without paying taxes and without any real interest in Canada other than to use its services when possible and to get further family members Canadian citizenship.

Many a times you've said your issue is about maintaining "Canadian" culture but what I'm getting in your post here is that your issue is empty houses and unused citizenship cards.

So are you now basically saying that you don't have a problem with Chinese families who actually want to raise a family in Canada or is it just their Chineseness that bothers you?

[Argus]

Many a times you've said your issue is about maintaining "Canadian" culture but what I'm getting in your post here is that your issue is empty houses and unused citizenship cards.

So are you now basically saying that you don't have a problem with Chinese families who actually want to raise a family in Canada or is it just their Chineseness that bothers you?

If by 'chineseness' you mean, only speaks Mandarin/Cantonese, loyal and obedient to the will of the Chinese government, and has no interest in Canadian values, culture or identity, then I have a problem. If you mean skin color and eye shape then I have no issue.

Go build your strawmen elsewhere. This has nothing to do with the ethnicity of those cheating their way into Canada.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Argus

[BC_chick]

If by 'chineseness' you mean, only speaks Mandarin/Cantonese, loyal and obedient to the will of the Chinese government, and has no interest in Canadian values, culture or identity, then I have a problem. If you mean skin color and eye shape then I have no issue.

Go build your strawmen elsewhere. This has nothing to do with the ethnicity of those cheating their way into Canada.

It's not a strawman. GHuxley has openly expressed his desire to maintain Canada's roots as a Eurocentric country so anything he has to say about empty houses and unpaid taxes has to take into account that this is a poster with personal biases against non-Europeans.

[G Huxley]

Many a times you've said your issue is about maintaining "Canadian" culture but what I'm getting in your post here is that your issue is empty houses and unused citizenship cards.

So are you now basically saying that you don't have a problem with Chinese families who actually want to raise a family in Canada or is it just their Chineseness that bothers you?

I have multiple problems with what is happening. My main problem with the Chinese is their inability to control their population and their massive takeover of world resources and space. There are 38 Canadians to every mainland Chinese. The Chinese should demonstrate their ability to find balance with nature in their own country before overrunning the rest of the world and turning it into an industrial wasteland like they have China.

Edited August 21, 2016 by G Huxley