G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 And you don't care in which direction our cultures and values evolve? Are you very old and apt to die soon? Do you not care what future is in store for this country? All Peter F cares about is that more mainland Chinese get Canadian citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 What's different now is that thousands of third world people are stopping by to have babies in order to acquire citizenship they don't deserve and shouldn't have. Unlike you, I regard being "Canadian" as more than simply a stamp on a piece of paper. A Canadian has a certain general mindset, culture and value systems, as well as a shared history with other Canadians. An anchor baby will grow up in China (or wherever) and be Chinese in every single aspect of his or her life. There will not be a single thing about his history, attitude, outlook on life or values which marks him or her as a Canadian. You might want throw your arms around him and welcome him as a "Hail, fellow, well met" but to me he's a foreigner and a stranger. Argus, me and you are both Canadians yet the values we supposedly share, as filtered through MLW are few and far between. And it ain't just you and me, the values you and Canadian "Lefties' share are also few and far between; or SJW's; or Feminazi's; or the poor. So generally speaking I don't think Canadians do share common values or culture. But, as I pointed out in the post above, we do all end up living under a common set of laws and civil responsibilities wether we like them or not. Only in that sense do we share values or culture. "Acquiring citizenship they don't deserve": Who doesn't deserve Canadian citizenship? Foreigners? Third-world foreigners maybe? Poles? Norwegians? Russians? Turks? Arabs? the Chinese? There is a way of acquiring Canadian citizenship and that is the immigration process that is in place. I understand that you don't like that process either. Any child born in this country 'deserves' citizenship. That may not be how you acquired yours but it is certainly how I acquired mine. I say I deserve that citizenship and I resent the implication that I didn't deserve that citizenship at birth due to my lack of shared values/culture with you or anyone else anywhere. Citizenship is in fact a piece of paper and nothing more. It is a legal condition. A rubber stamp. Nothing more than a passport or a birth certificate. No values or cultural hurdles or hoops to be leapt through or met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 If that's all you consider your citizenship to be worth, then you shouldn't have any problem using that paper as fuel for a fire to keep warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Peter F: Canadian Citizenship is a paper tiger. It has no value other than the paper its printed on. If Canadian citizenship has no value, why do people go to such great lengths to get it? Edited August 12, 2016 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 This should obviously be revoked. So tell us again Peter F, why you think Canada should give away citizenship like candy and yet you have no criticism for Beijing for being protectionist of Chinese citizenship? Allright, I'll say it again so's you can stew for a while more; I think anyone born here should be conferred with citizenship. Canadian citizenship IS candy! China can confer citizenship on whoever they want for whatever reasons please them and I do not care in the slightest how the chinese government determines those things. Copy and past this onto Notepad. When you need confirmation that Peter F actually said that then you can open your notepad and there it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) "Canadian citizenship IS candy!"But you said it had no value. Candy has value. "China can confer citizenship on whoever they want for whatever reasons please them and I do not care in the slightest how the chinese government determines those things."So you consider Chinese citizenship more valuable than Canadian citizenship, since they don't give it away like candy. Edited August 12, 2016 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 If that's all you consider your citizenship to be worth, then you shouldn't have any problem using that paper as fuel for a fire to keep warm. No problem at all . OH! crap. I don't have any citizenship papers at all. but, yeah, if I did I could put a match to them and it wouldn't bother me in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 "I don't have any citizenship papers at all. "Do you live in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 "Canadian citizenship IS candy!" But you said it had no value. Candy has value. "China can confer citizenship on whoever they want for whatever reasons please them and I do not care in the slightest how the chinese government determines those things." So you consider Chinese citizenship more valuable than Canadian citizenship, since they don't give it away like candy. Huxley you have clearly stated that you fear the yellow hordes. All the fears you carry of Panda's and colonization and sinosomethingorother, I do not share - not even a little bit. Everyone else here so far have not resorted to your racist claptrap. Except you. In fact you can shove that racist fear of the chinaman up your butt. Me and you got nuthin to talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) "Huxley you have clearly stated that you fear the yellow hordes." I'm opposed to all population hording, it is a crime against mother nature. "Everyone else here so far have not resorted to your racist claptrap. Except you. "You have revealed your racism in that you claim Canadian citizenship is as worthless as a piece of paper and yet you care nothing at all that China is protectionist of its citizenship. Why are you racist and discriminatory and demeaning towards Canadians and our citizenship? "Me and you got nuthin to talk about."Of course not, you just admitted that you don't have any citizenship papers at all. So I ask do you live in Canada? Edited August 12, 2016 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Argus, me and you are both Canadians yet the values we supposedly share, as filtered through MLW are few and far between. Really? I would wager that you and I share far more in terms of values than we disagree on. Even the things we disagree on are more likely more closely related to how to achieve the same objective. For example, we both want to elevate those living in poverty. You feel that giving them money is the best way. I feel that only perpetuates poverty and that skills training and focus on ensuring there are jobs available in the economy is far better. Yet we want the same thing in the end. We both also support freedom of speech, though perhaps I support it more than you (I can't remember your position but many on the Left want it restricted where it offends people). We both believe wholeheartedly in democratic government and a free press, and in the need for the rule of law and a strong regulatory environment, on gun control, on public health care, etc. etc. If you see a bus or subway coming do you line up for it or shove your way through those who are waiting to get to the front? Do you throw your garbage on the sidewalk? If you see someone hit by a car do you walk away or call an ambulance and see what you can do to help? When you see women on a beach in a bikini do you fume and think violent thoughts about them being whores tempting you and other men? Do you think they should be punished, perhaps beaten and forced to repent? Do you cheat on your taxes given the slightest pretext or opportunity? Were you willing to take a little money on the side at whatever job you were at in order to push someone up on the priority list or would you have been indignant if anyone had offered? And it ain't just you and me, the values you and Canadian "Lefties' share are also few and far between; or SJW's; or Feminazi's; or the poor There are always outliers, extremists, like SJWs and fascists, people who are zealots and ideologues and willing to impose their beliefs on others with scant regard for fairness or common sense. "Acquiring citizenship they don't deserve": Who doesn't deserve Canadian citizenship? Foreigners? Third-world foreigners maybe? Poles? Norwegians? Russians? Turks? Arabs? the Chinese? There is a way of acquiring Canadian citizenship and that is the immigration process that is in place. I understand that you don't like that process either. I am impressed by facts and evidence. I have found it notable, as an ex government employee who knows something about program management, that at no time has the immigration program ever been subjected to a cost benefit analyses, that it has no business plan, as such, no statement of anticipated results and no milestones to measure. What do we hope it will do for us and why are we not measuring the results? Because immigration is now a political tool of the political parties and done for their benefit, not that of Canada. There are numerous aspects of the current immigration system, from how many we let in, to who we let in, which are the result of political decisions not the intelligent application of demographics, statistics or economics. Why would I support any of that? Why do you? Citizenship is in fact a piece of paper and nothing more. It is a legal condition. A rubber stamp. Nothing more than a passport or a birth certificate. No values or cultural hurdles or hoops to be leapt through or met. On this we strongly differ. I consider citizenship, being a Canadian, to being part of a shared extended family. If I'm somewhere else and run into a Canadian I feel a sense of kinship based upon our shared history and values, a sense of familiarity and similarity which all humans seek and always have. If some Chinese or Russian guy holds a Canadian passport because he bought it I feel no kinship with him. I can't even understand his language nor he mine. We have no shared values or beliefs, and a dissimilar understanding about the way the world should work. Edited August 12, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 And you don't care in which direction our cultures and values evolve? Are you very old and apt to die soon? Do you not care what future is in store for this country? I care very much. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that I can control how our society evolves. There are millions of us citizens not just me and you and some political party or other. It's a huge mish-mash and our system allows that to function. I believe our multi-cultural values (acknowledging you do not share that value) gives this country great civil strength and we need not fear third-worlders as a result. Its a great country our forefathers cooked up and it did not turn out like they intended it to either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 How can you call it "our society" when you said that you don't have any citizenship papers and you won't even say whether or not you live in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) I care very much. But I'm not foolish enough to believe that I can control how our society evolves. There are millions of us citizens not just me and you and some political party or other. It's a huge mish-mash and our system allows that to function. I believe our multi-cultural values (acknowledging you do not share that value) gives this country great civil strength and we need not fear third-worlders as a result. I grant you I have a lot less enthusiasm for multiculturalism than you seem to. But that is hardly a radical belief. The(left wing) leaders of the UK, Germany and France have all pronounced multiculturalism a failure in the last couple of years, and we have seen the results of failing to integrate newcomers into their existing cultures. I have no desire to see race riots or ethnic ghettos here, and believe full integration for all newcomers is the healthiest thing for Canada's future. Edited August 12, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) In reply to Huxley post 288 ....sigh....I do not have any citizenship papers. I'm not even sure I have a birth certificate. I do have a drivers license though. And a health card. I could burn those if you like, though they won't burn as well as citizenship papers. Edited August 12, 2016 by Peter F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 How did you get a drivers license and health card without having citizenship papers and a birth certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) ....sigh....I do not have any citizenship papers. I'm not even sure I have a birth certificate. I do have a drivers license though. And a health card. I could burn those if you like, though they won't burn as well as citizenship papers. I don't think there is such a thing as 'citizenship papers' unless you're an immigrant. I only have a citizenship card, myself. I used to have a 'certificate of registration of birth abroad' which was actually just a card, not a 'certificate', but I lost it and they apparently stopped making them. I also have a passport, of course, so I can travel to foreign destinations to disapprove of them in person, rather than doing so from abroad. Edited August 12, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 So you don't see Canada as a nation of people with its own culture and values which are important to preserve?A better question would be why Argus seems to think Canadians are a race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I also have a passport, of course, so I can travel to foreign destinations to disapprove of them in person, rather than doing so from abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) "I don't think there is such a thing as 'citizenship papers' unless you're an immigrant."Its called a birth certificate. How you not have a birth certificate being born here? Edited August 12, 2016 by G Huxley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) How did you get a drivers license and health card without having citizenship papers and a birth certificate? all's I need to show was a couple of hydro bills and the mortgage papers, but it was long ago when I acquired them. Y'see how easy it is for us sino-fifth columnists to infiltrate you country? Edited August 12, 2016 by Peter F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Yes I do. That is the point of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Let me tell you the story of how I got a passport! Yes, a Canadian passport. A company in Montreal calls me at home in Quebec city "You working?" "Well, sort of. Washing dishes for minimum wage", I answer. "We need you on a ship thats sailing in three days, can you get here tomorrow?" "Sure thing" Off I go to Montreal, the sudden departure putting my marriage under extreme stress to say the least. The next day at the office it suddenly occurs to the boss that Jeez I hope he's got a passport..."You have a passport?" "No no I don't. Just the sailors book" "Allright. Get down to our lawyers right away and have them fill out this form" He pulls a single sheet document out of the filing cabinet and hands it to me. "Get going" Off I go to the lawyers on St.John street . Of course there is no St.John street in Montreal. After some confusion he straightens that out on the phone "Oh, it is St.Jacques, but we Anglo's call it St.John street. Not helpful, I know. Anyways Hurry UP" Finally I arrive before the retained lawyer and tell him the company wants him to give me a passport. "Why would I give you a passport? I don't even know you?" "I know, so they gave me this document to fill out" He peruses the document..."Whats this?" "It says that yes you do not know me but you have seen my ID and you believe that I am Canadian and I am who I say I am" He studies the document some more... "Well, alright then" and signs and then I rush off to the passport office where I produce the lawyer signed document and am handed a passport. Marvellous system. They think of everything. Edited August 12, 2016 by Peter F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 It's pretty pointless talking about immigration with people who don't even know how the immigration process works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Huxley Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Let me tell you the story of how I got a passport! Yes, a Canadian passport. A company in Montreal calls me at home in Quebec city "You working?" "Well, sort of. Washing dishes for minimum wage", I answer. "We need you on a ship thats sailing in three days, can you get here tomorrow?" "Sure thing" Off I go to Montreal, the sudden departure putting my marriage under extreme stress to say the least. The next day at the office it suddenly occurs to the boss that Jeez I hope he's got a passport..."You have a passport?" "No no I don't. Just the sailors book" "Allright. Get down to our lawyers right away and have them fill out this form" He pulls a single sheet document out of the filing cabinet and hands it to me. "Get going" Off I go to the lawyers on St.John street . Of course there is no St.John street in Montreal. After some confusion he straightens that out on the phone "Oh, it is St.Jacques, but we Anglo's call it St.John street. Not helpful, I know. Anyways Hurry UP" Finally I arrive before the retained lawyer and tell him the company wants him to give me a passport. "Why would I give you a passport? I don't even know you?" "I know, so they gave me this document to fill out" He peruses the document..."Whats this?" "It says that yes you do not know me but you have seen my ID and you believe that I am Canadian and I am who I say I am" He studies the document some more... "Well, alright then" and signs and then I rush off to the passport office where I produce the lawyer signed document and am handed a passport. Marvellous system. They think of everything. The ID you got by giving a couple mortgage bills and a hydro bill without a birth certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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