Husky spills 200k litres of crude into river

[taxme]

Irrelevant.

The hallmark of the fringe left is hypocrisy, so I can only assume you, like most who share your broken beliefs, are a massive hypocrite, it's a requirement of the ideology, it's impossible to function logically within that broken framework.

In fact, you are to blame, in part, for every oil spill, and you're ok with that as long as it happens in someone else's backyard, if not, prove to us that you no longer use or need oil and therefore your hands are clean. I suspect you like your oil, you, just like all of the other lefty hypocrites here want someone else to bear all of the burdens associated with producing and transporting it.

I live very near what might someday be the energy east pipeline, our water supply is very close to it, but should i fight against it while I fill my tank at the Shell down the street? No, because that gas came from somewhere and if wherever that is can accept the risks so can we.

I am pretty sure that jacee has used at least one drop of oil in her life time that was of benefit to her.

[Guest]

Everyone uses fossil fuels because we have to. The fact that a leak contaminating thousands of acres is considered minor or no big deal, is proof that we have to leave the toxic, planet and health destroying, fuels behind. Like the horse and buggy, fossil fuels were tremendously useful but we can do better now.

[TimG]

Everyone uses fossil fuels because we have to. The fact that a leak contaminating thousands of acres is considered minor or no big deal, is proof that we have to leave the toxic, planet and health destroying, fuels behind. Like the horse and buggy, fossil fuels were tremendously useful but we can do better now.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were drowning in horse manure". In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.

...

This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on Londons streets also attracted huge numbers of ies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.

..

The streets of London were beginning to poison its people.

...

However, necessity is the mother of invention, and the invention in this case was that of motor transport. Henry Ford came up with a process of building motor cars at affordable prices. Electric trams and motor buses appeared on the streets, replacing the horse-drawn buses.

There are a lot of humans on the planet. Anything we do to solve our transportation will produce pollution when deployed at a scale necessary to be useful. Personally, an occasional oil spill is nothing compared to toxic sludge that filled major cities in the 1890s.

[Guest]

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

There are a lot of humans on the planet. Anything we do to solve our transportation will produce pollution when deployed at a scale necessary to be useful. Personally, an occasional oil spill is nothing compared to toxic sludge that filled major cities in the 1890s.

Fossil fuels were a step forward in terms of practicality, power and cleanliness. Now the same is happening again as we progress beyond them.

[TimG]

Fossil fuels were a step forward in terms of practicality, power and cleanliness. Now the same is happening again as we progress beyond them.

Except don't have any real alternatives at this point in time. EVs are on the horizon but they can't replace convenience, cost and power of ICEs and, more importantly, depend on a electrical grid that will need to be powered by fossil fuels in most locations for the foreseeable future. Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[Guest]

Except don't have any real alternatives at this point in time. EVs are on the horizon but they can't replace convenience, cost and power of ICEs and, more importantly, depend on a electrical grid that will need to be powered by fossil fuels in most locations for the foreseeable future.

Yes, with EVs we are at that point when fossil powered cars started appearing among the horses and the people would say they are just a fad. Mainstream EVs with 320 km range are slated to ship next year with much fanfare. The horse has left the barn...

[TimG]

Yes, with EVs we are at that point when fossil powered cars started appearing among the horses

Except cars where better than horses in many tangible ways from the perspective of their owners (despite the hassles that came with car ownership at the time). EVs are struggling to be equal to ICE in terms of performance and cost while introducing a bunch of new hassles. EVs have a long way to go before they provide a business case equal to what triggered the shift from horses to cars. Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[Guest]

Except cars where better than horses in many tangible ways from the perspective of their owners (despite the hassles that came with car ownership at the time). EVs are struggling to be equal to ICE in terms of performance and cost while introducing a bunch of new hassles. EVs have a long way to go before they provide a business case equal to what triggered the shift from horses to cars.

Automobiles were initially quite expensive, under powered, unreliable, inconvenient to fill, difficult to maintain and plagued by a severe lack smooth, well maintained roads. EVs already offer many performance and convenience advantages for the majority of our driving needs and starting next year some very appealing prices will appear. Next year Chevy expects to sell 33k Bolts and Nissan will offer a second gen Leaf, with similar specs and price to the Bolt. Tesla has accepted over 375k deposits for the Model 3 and the S & X models combined are selling 15 - 20K per month. Tesla already has a large and charging network, GM and others will add more, local shopping centres and businesses have already installed charging stations. Soon I expect every highway side service centre and rest stop will add charging stations and along with gas stations, malls and major shopping centres. Like horse troughs in front of businesses in the old west or engine block heater plug-ins up North, I expect chargers will be everywhere in the not too distant future. The technology is already advancing quickly and will snowball with greater adoption rates. The times, they are a changin'.

The massive scale up in battery production taking place right now is expected to drop costs by 30% over the next few years; which will also further reduce the need for fossil derived electricity. The constant stream of leaks, spills and contamination issues associated with fossils and the sad but expected response that this is nothing special, just business as usual is why, like mountains of horse shit, the toxic polluting mess is being left behind.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Guest

[jacee]

Yes, with EVs we are at that point when fossil powered cars started appearing among the horses and the people would say they are just a fad. Mainstream EVs with 320 km range are slated to ship next year with much fanfare. The horse has left the barn...

I think often the discussion of alternative vs fossil fuel transportation gets bogged down because people are talking about different applications and contexts without realizing it, and assuming that one solution has to address all applications and contexts.

That's nonsense, of course. Like most of life, fuel and driving habits are not an either/or situation: It depends on a variety of things such as where you choose to live.

Guesstimating a bit ...

- about 30% of Canadians live in urban core areas, short distance lower speed driving, where Electric Vehicles make a whole lot of sense (and should have been implemented long ago).

- about 50% live in suburban areas, short neighbourhood driving plus longer commutes, where Hybrids make a whole lot of sense (and hybrid SUV's have caught on).

- about 20% live in rural areas, longer distance higher speed driving where gasoline still reigns supreme.

Those trashing and bashing alternate power vehicles, imposing an either/or mentality here have, I suspect, commercial intent - trying to protect the fossil fuel 'market share'.

Nothing to do with the reality of our lives, just commercial lobbying.

The sensible conversation is 'what works for whom, and for what purposes'.

The 'lobbyists' won't participate in such sensible conversations.

Some fossil fuel companies consider themselves energy companies and are ahead of the curve in investing in renewable energy as well.

Some fossil fuel companies, and their lobbyists, are the dinosaur type who will either 'be dragged kicking and screaming' or 'go down with the ship'.

All argument and divisiveness is unnecessary, if we talk sensibly about what works for whom, and where, and if governments address their policies appropriately, and companies target their marketing and lobbying appropriately.

Pipeline technology, as currently implemented, is obviously horribly deficient. So is shipping.

The damage to the environment and human lives is unsustainable.

Oil is only cheaper than alternative fuels because companies have not been taking full responsibility for that damage as part of the cost of doing business. If they are not by now modernizing and taking proper precautions, building safer systems ... they are choosing to 'go down with the ship'.

Oh Boohoo ... Husky's quarterly results just took a hit ... and it's a big deal to them ... because they do not inventory, monitor, repair and protect their pipelines adequately.

That's just bad business.

Nobody anywhere is arguing against all use of fossil fuels.

We are arguing for intelligent production and use of all energy sources.

.

Edited July 28, 2016 by jacee

[TimG]

Soon I expect every highway side service centre and rest stop will add charging stations and along with gas stations, malls and major shopping centres.

No roll out of charging stations is going to change the fact that charging EVs takes a lot more time than refueling ICEs. True believers will put up with the inconvenience of charging but as long as EVs offer nothing other than 'feel good' credentials their adoption will be limited. They need to be much cheaper and more reliable that their ICE equivalent for each vehicle class before they will be replace.

(i.e. you can't compare a leaf or a volt to a SUV because they are a different vehicle class. EVs need to exceed the performance/comfort/convenience of an SUV before they can expect much adoption by people interested in SUVs).

Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[The_Squid]

Don't worry... it was a small spill and will all be cleaned up.

Prince Albert remains under state of emergency

Prince Albert gets all its water from the North Saskatchewan River. The city shut down its intake early Monday and switched to emergency water reserves. Council declared a state of emergency and implemented a ban on non-necessary water use. Emergency water reserves sustained the city for roughly two days; late Tuesday, the city switched to a backup water supply pumped in from a storm retention pond. That could last up to five days with water restrictions in effect. http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/spill-effects-far-reaching

The City of Melfort shut off its water intake on Tuesday morning and is supplying more than 7,000 residents with water from a nearby dam site. Because the dam water is not as clean as what the city’s treatment plant usually processes, a precautionary drinking water advisory is in effect.

The Premier is acting tough...

http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/saskatchewan-premier-brad-wall-not-satisfied-with-husky-response-to-oil-spill-after-14-hour-delay-revealed?__lsa=a3fb-e24a

Mayor of Prince Albert doesn't believe Husky's timeline.

"I live in the real world and I do not believe — they claim in two months we should be back to normal," he said.

"I don't agree with that statement strictly because as of from today, we are 100 days away from our first freeze-up," Dionne said.

"So I don't know how they are going to clean that many shorelines and get all of that oil out of the water and off the shoreline in that short period of time."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/prince-albert-husky-oil-spill-response-north-saskatchewan-river-1.3697076

But don't worry everyone... this was just a tiny oil spill!!

[jacee]

TimG has just provided another example of 'either/or' thinking.

EV's do not have to serve suburban/rural needs to be an economically sustainable alternative for core urban dwellers.

We need choices of EV's, Hybrids and ICE's.

We are fully capable of making the appropriate choice for ourselves. EV charging stations should be everywhere in city cores. If suburban and rural drivers don't want them, that's their choice ... but it should not have been interfering with our choices for so long.

It's like arguing birth control methods as if there MUST be a 'one size fits all'.

Ridiculous, unintelligent, unproductive thinking.

.

Edited July 28, 2016 by jacee

[TimG]

EV's do not have to serve suburban/rural needs to be an economically sustainable alternative for core urban dwellers.

EVs have to provide enough value to convince people to buy them. Year after year the predictions for EV sales have fallen grossly short of the mark. Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[poochy]

Everyone uses fossil fuels because we have to. The fact that a leak contaminating thousands of acres is considered minor or no big deal, is proof that we have to leave the toxic, planet and health destroying, fuels behind. Like the horse and buggy, fossil fuels were tremendously useful but we can do better now.

Cop out, you enjoy this modern, literally made of oil lifestyle, as does everyone in BC, there is no other option, that's just a fairy tale.

[poochy]

Those trashing and bashing alternate power vehicles, imposing an either/or mentality here have, I suspect, commercial intent - trying to protect the fossil fuel 'market share'.

Nothing to do with the reality of our lives, just commercial lobbying.

You can suspect any foolish thing you like, and any conspiracy theory you wish, as you are prone to do, but at least in my case I have absolutely no commercial attachment to the oil industry, other than of course, and like you, having most of the things in my life powered by or made from oil. Your the one who is hiding your personal interest in oil, you use it just like the rest of us, but behave as though your above it all and therefore can cast judgement upon those who are beneath you. It's a common theme from the people from that perfect province.

But I do find your's and others general ignorance to be insulting, to leave it go unchallenged would simply be wrong.

Edited July 28, 2016 by poochy

[Guest]

Cop out, you enjoy this modern, literally made of oil lifestyle, as does everyone in BC, there is no other option, that's just a fairy tale.

Of course there are other options. You are a modern version of the naysayers claiming automobiles will never replace the horse for our transportation needs.

[Argus]

Water is necessary.

Oil is necessary.

[Argus]

Of course there are other options. You are a modern version of the naysayers claiming automobiles will never replace the horse for our transportation needs.

I'm sure electric vehicles will replace the internal combustion engine - some day. They're not at that point, yet, however, so we still need oil and gas and still need pipelines to carry it.

[TimG]

I'm sure electric vehicles will replace the internal combustion engine - some day. They're not at that point, yet, however, so we still need oil and gas and still need pipelines to carry it.

Slick is like someone arguing in the 1890s that new infrastructure to manage horse feed and manure should be prohibited because 'cars mean we don't need it'.

We are still waiting for a EV 'ModelT' that makes EVs an option for people who can't afford 2 or more cars. It was 20 years away in the 1890s. May be 20 years away today.

Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[The_Squid]

Slick is like someone arguing in the 1890s that new infrastructure to manage horse feed and manure should be prohibited because 'cars mean we don't need it'.

We are still waiting for a EV 'ModelT' that makes EVs an option for people who can't afford 2 or more cars. It was 20 years away in the 1890s. May be 20 years away today.

This coming from a climate change denier is a bit rich...

[TimG]

This coming from a climate change denier is a bit rich...

Except people who pay attention to nuance instead of talking points realize that I don't "deny climate change". All I argue is there is no credible evidence the reducing CO2 using the technology we have today is a better use of limited resources than simply adapting to whatever changes come when we are sure what those changes will be (e.g. climate model predictions are not that helpful we it comes to understanding the exact impact in any given locale). Edited July 28, 2016 by TimG

[The_Squid]

The spill has reached 500km downstream.

n its initial incident report to the Saskatchewan government, Husky said the "pipeline release" was discovered around 8 p.m. CST Wednesday, July 20.

Now, the company has filed a revised incident report, saying the spill was spotted Thursday, July 21, at 10 a.m. — 14 hours later.

------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, at a briefing today with provincial officials, reporters were told that the oil spill has now travelled downstream about 500 kilometres.

Four communities, the largest being the city of Prince Albert, have now declared local states of emergency.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/husky-oil-spill-government-july-28-update-1.3699007

But don't worry... it's a small spill. A small spill that will take months of cleanup.

[?Impact]

The solution is simple. Stop the corporate welfare. The oil companies can put up a $100 trillion environmental security bond, and then we can talk about getting oil to market. How many thousand improperly decommissioned oil wells are there in Alberta because the industry found it cheaper to continue paying leases than properly closing down the wells?

[overthere]

The solution is simple. Stop the corporate welfare. The oil companies can put up a $100 trillion environmental security bond, and then we can talk about getting oil to market. How many thousand improperly decommissioned oil wells are there in Alberta because the industry found it cheaper to continue paying leases than properly closing down the wells?

I think a billion trillion would be better. What can you buy for $100 trillion these days?

[jacee]

Irrelevant.

The hallmark of the fringe left is hypocrisy, so I can only assume you, like most who share your broken beliefs, are a massive hypocrite, it's a requirement of the ideology, it's impossible to function logically within that broken framework.

In fact, you are to blame, in part, for every oil spill, and you're ok with that as long as it happens in someone else's backyard, if not, prove to us that you no longer use or need oil and therefore your hands are clean. I suspect you like your oil, you, just like all of the other lefty hypocrites here want someone else to bear all of the burdens associated with producing and transporting it.

I live very near what might someday be the energy east pipeline, our water supply is very close to it, but should i fight against it while I fill my tank at the Shell down the street? No, because that gas came from somewhere and if wherever that is can accept the risks so can we.

poochy poochy poochy

(I like your name)

I use olive oil, occasionally canola.

I have a can of WD40.

I walk, ride a bike, occasionally a city bus, greyhound or plane.

I'm not a big oil user at present.

But ... you miss the point.

It's not a question of either/or.

It's a question of how much.

It's a question of adding more renewable energy sources to the menu of choices we have, not being limited to fossil fuels and also reducing consumption of them to levels that reduce environmental destruction to sustainable levels.

There is no reason to get het up about it.

Fill your tank.

Drive your ... truck?

Enjoy.

Some of us have cut down on that ... but some of us are more able to than others.

I don't commute 3 hrs/day anymore ... but I did.

We do what we have to.

Pipeline safety is a separate issue: Why can't they get that right yet?

You'd better hope so.

.