CBC Leading In Ending Anonymous Comments

[overthere]

hat is an interesting view. If I wanted to avoid opinions I would just remove this and other sites from my desktop. I demand nothing. The CBC is trying to create a forum where people will take responsibility for their opinions - what is wrong with that?

No, the CBC is trying to -and will succeed- at creating a form where opinions are tightly moderated and conform to their view. They do it on other platforms, why not online? I expect they'll edit and correct spelling and grammar too, wouldn't want that unanimity of opinion spoiled.

Example: try to get on a program like Cross Country Checkup and express a view that is not in line with the CBC view of Liberal support/Harper hate. It is nearly impossible as the radio 'moderators' - the production aides that interview every caller - and filter out nearly every person that has a dissenting opinion.

Example: on a recent Power and Politics program, Barton posted a CBC poll that 'showed' 69% of Canadians did not want a referendum on electoral reform. A much larger non-CBC poll at the same time had the desire for a referendum at 70%.

The online comments are one of the few things that CBC could not control, and message control is a major part of both what Trudeau and his TV/radio network need to control. Mission accomplished.

[The_Squid]

Barton posted a CBC poll that 'showed' 69%...

You are misrepresenting the "poll" and how the P&P show characterizes it.

P&P runs their online poll during the show. It's not scientific in any way, nor do they present it as such. Personally, I think it's rather silly... but that's what they do.

[Big Guy]

A valid poll is like a referendum in that it has to be a clear choice between only two defined choices.

For example - What if a poll was presented that asked, "would you prefer a ranked ballot process over a FPTF process". If this poll (referendum) was asked after a well publicized explanation of how a ranked ballot system works then the result might be valid.

But there are many different proportional representation systems. How do you educate the electorate of all the possibilities and then how do you word a plebiscite/referendum/poll of two choices?

I am a proponent of the ranked ballot system. It does guarantee that the individual running in the riding is acceptable to the majority of voters in that riding. As to what party it favors - I suggest that it is the party whose platform is satisfactory for the majority of voters. What is wrong with that? The problem is not the process, the problem is that not all parties try to satisfy what the public wants but follows its own view of the world. If the majority of voters do not share it then you do not take power.

[TimG]

A valid poll is like a referendum in that it has to be a clear choice between only two defined choices.

Nonsense. A referendum or a poll can used ranked balloting too. I just filled a poll recently that did exactly that.

I suggest that it is the party whose platform is satisfactory for the majority of voters. What is wrong with that?

Any system that leads to rule by a single party or group of parties is bad. Governments must change hands periodically. FPTP is the best for renewing government.

[-1=e^ipi]

Nonsense. A referendum or a poll can used ranked balloting too. I just filled a poll recently that did exactly that.

In the Ontario referendum, I spoiled my ballot because it only gave 2 options. I'm sure others did as well. A ranked ballot referendum is better.

[?Impact]

FPTP is the best for renewing government.

There are many modern western governments with proportional representation that renew government (change hands) periodically. Do you have any empirical evidence that says FPTP has a better track record?

[TimG]

There are many modern western governments with proportional representation that renew government (change hands) periodically. Do you have any empirical evidence that says FPTP has a better track record?

Well there are different types of PR. Anything that uses party lists is the worst since voters no longer have any control over the specific people elected to parliament. This creates a class of permanent politicians that are accountable to no one other than their party.

PR systems that do not use party lists often have the same party at the center of any coalition which means actual changes of government where the old guard is completely booted from office is rare. Look at Germany which has only had three different Chancellors since 1982 (Canada has had 9 Prime Ministers with 4 complete power transitions in the same period).

Edited June 7, 2016 by TimG

[overthere]

You are misrepresenting the "poll" and how the P&P show characterizes it.

P&P runs their online poll during the show. It's not scientific in any way, nor do they present it as such. Personally, I think it's rather silly... but that's what they do.

They explain nothing of that process and made no mention on air that their poll was nonsense. Nor do they refer to the larger poll that contradicts theirs entirely.

It is far more sinister than 'silly', it is an outright lie. But their target audience just laps this dose of turd up, cheerfully.

To do so would expose their bias, of course. Nobody at Mother Corp is going to admit to that.

[?Impact]

Look at Germany which has only had three different Chancellors since 1982 (Canada has had 9 Prime Ministers with 4 complete power transitions in the same period).

Actually Canada has had 4 complete power transitions, and Germany has had 5 during that time. If you made the comparison from 1981 to a year ago then Germany would have 6 complete power transitions compared to 3 in Canada. A new coalition is a power transition, and you are ignoring them.

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Sorry, I just noticed that we are really drifting away from the topic - I blame overthere at 10:52 this morning for getting us off on this tangent.

Edited June 7, 2016 by ?Impact

[TimG]

drifting away from the topic

Answered here: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25181-how-we-get-to-proportional-representation/#entry1164813

[Moonlight Graham]

Yes you are. Allow me to commend you on using your real name Moonlight. Or would you prefer Mr Graham? Do you also play Delta Blues on an old acoustic guitar?

Sometimes. But I prefer electric blues on a stratocaster.

[overthere]

Actually Canada has had 4 complete power transitions, and Germany has had 5 during that time. If you made the comparison from 1981 to a year ago then Germany would have 6 complete power transitions compared to 3 in Canada. A new coalition is a power transition, and you are ignoring them.

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Sorry, I just noticed that we are really drifting away froThe CBC is trying to create a forum where people will take responsibility for their opinionsm the topic - I blame overthere at 10:52 this morning for getting us off on this tangent.

Whaaat? My comment there was on this topic "The CBC is trying to create a forum where people will take responsibility for their opinions". They are doing nothing of the sort, and I had no comments about coalitions.....

Signed

Spartacus.