The Three Issues Everyone is Ignoring

[taxme]

taxme, have u ever watched documentary about how the non-natives treat the First Nation? I watch one center around Winnipeg, and the white community wanted nothing to do with them, No white man will hire them and I believe the treatment of the FN from non-natives depends on what province one lives in. Many non-natives feel about the FN as they do about other Canadian on welfare. As far as health care, that is a provincial matter and some are good at it and some aren't.

There must be a good reason as to why the white community around Winnipeg does not want to have anything to do with the Indians. My wife's uncle was a cop in Truro, NS. and he told us a story about how the government there went and built homes for the Indians, and when winter rolled around, the Indians would tear down the walls in the houses so they could burn that wood to keep warm. How is that for gratitude? The white man and woman's tax dollars down the drain in trying to help them out. They don't appreciate anything the white man/woman does for them. They take us for suckers because they know that they can. Just shout racism, and the white politicians run like the politically correct cowards that they are. If I were the Premier or Prime Minister of this country, I would have said to them right away that there will be no more money for you. You can now do like everyone else does and go find a job if you want to have a roof over your head. But this is Canada, a country pretty well known around the world as a country where once you get in you get lots of freebies.

[taxme]

It's not about you, but your choice of words speaks to the dominant narrative that dogs these issues and is perhaps a clue as to why they're so difficult to resolve.

What is wrong with this country when you take $20 billion of taxpayer's tax dollars and blow it on immigration every year? That is insane. Could we not have done better and used this money for Canada and Canadians rather than for a bunch of strangers? Why do politicians seem to feel that they can just take our tax dollars and waste them on their pet programs and agendas that the majority of Canadians never asked for? This kind of nonsense goes on and on every day in Canada and no one seems to give a heck. Taxpayer's should be outraged at seeing this kind of money being blown on new immigrants who when they get here should be able to look after themselves, and not rely on the Canadian taxpayer's to pay their way. Come on people show some interest and care as to how your tax dollars are being blown all the time, and stop worrying about the rest of the world.

I am sure that the rest of the world and their politicians and people don't go around all the time and worry about Canada. And I doubt that any country where a Canadian may emigrate too will pay them any of their money to support them. Your on your own, baby, they will say, and that is the way it should also be in Canada. Why do we continue to allow ourselves to be made fools of all the time by most politicians ,bureaucrats, and special interest groups who have no love for this country. They just want whatever money they can get out of Canada. Stop giving it to them. Speak up for Canada.

[Guest]

The issues aren't solved, but characterizing them as a plague on the nation is insulting.

Causing continual trouble or distress. It seems reasonable.

[eyeball]

It seems more inevitable than reasonable, in any case, wait until climate change, resource drawdown and other ecological deficits start kicking in. These other issues will be nothing compared to the bottleneck that's coming. That's the issue everyone, especially old stock economists, are really oblivious to.

[Argus]

The media has a lot to do with what things we see as important and what we discuss among ourselves. The petty things and inconsequential issues are put in the spotlight while other important things are shoved to the back where no one will notice.

I think because it's easy to get a handle on small things, but the big complicated ones require more than a few brief sound bites. I don't think you can find anyone in media who believes immigration, health care or the aboriginal files are being properly looked after, but none of these issues are 'sexy' and neither their problems nor their solutions can be summed up with a few brief paragraphs.

Of course, if our politicians actually cared about improving things in Canada, more than their own short-term political fortunes they'd be addressing these issues without being prodded by the media.

[Argus]

I have two different contractors in my back yard this morning. One is from a fencing company, and the other from a landscaper building me a deck, among other things. One is an immigrant from Poland, the other an immigrant from Switzerland. Both say it's hard to find skilled help in their businesses and are both working long, long hours because of demand. They could bring over people they know from Europe eager to come to Canada, but it's very, very hard to get permission for them to immigrate. Meanwhile we take tens of thousands of immigrants from third world countries like Pakistan every year with limited job prospects, language skills and education. And almost none have any interest in doing the kind of hard, physical work you see in the trades industry. How does that benefit Canada?

[overthere]

I have two different contractors in my back yard this morning. One is from a fencing company, and the other from a landscaper building me a deck, among other things. One is an immigrant from Poland, the other an immigrant from Switzerland. Both say it's hard to find skilled help in their businesses and are both working long, long hours because of demand. They could bring over people they know from Europe eager to come to Canada, but it's very, very hard to get permission for them to immigrate. Meanwhile we take tens of thousands of immigrants from third world countries like Pakistan every year with limited job prospects, language skills and education. And almost none have any interest in doing the kind of hard, physical work you see in the trades industry. How does that benefit Canada?

Speaking of anecdotes, my nephew(an immigrant himself from Yurp) has a landscape crew that has been all -Canadian for a couple of years now. They pay well and work a ton of overtime, the season is only about 6 months. A few years back, he had a crew that was all Mexicans working on TFW visas. They are or rather were incredible workers, none of them can come here any more.

It took him a whole season of hiring and firing Canadians to find a bunch that were willing to actually work for their money. Not coincidentally, that event coincided with a upturn in resource extraction layoffs. The pool expanded.

[cannuck]

What is wrong with this country when you take $20 billion of taxpayer's tax dollars and blow it on immigration every year? That is insane. Could we not have done better and used this money for Canada and Canadians rather than for a bunch of strangers? Why do politicians seem to feel that they can just take our tax dollars and waste them on their pet programs and agendas that the majority of Canadians never asked for?

Thing is, it is NOT "our" money they are spending. We are long past broke and deeply in debt. It is our grandchildren's money and future they are pissing away. "Sunny ways" will be long gone before the bill comes due.

[cannuck]

To Argus' original post:

Immigration: Our immigration policy sucks the big one. As has been pointed out: we are focused on bringing in the wrong people. Lest nobody happened to notice: we speak English and French here - because were are essentially a European country (culturally). Europe is being ripped apart now by its idiotic immigration patterns. We are culturally diverse, and that is "interesting" in both good and bad ways, but why would you want to destroy the very fabric of our society for some mindless trip through political la-la land??

re post 26, aboriginals: Origin al treaties were not from Canada, but from UK. We would be complete fools to take them verbatim - but we have gone even further and expanded things such as "basic literacy" in education to mean a life long free pass to attend any level of any institution and get paid a boatload of money to bring your whole family along for the ride. And on it goes. The "whites" around Winnipeg don't employ aboriginals because over the last two centuries, they have learned that the probability of them coming to work is exceedinly close to zero. Head for your nearest Northern reserve and see what business is there. Outside of the Northern store (formerly the Hudson's Bay company) and a few drug dealers, there aren't any. Even aboriginals don't hire aboriginals. Why do you suppose white guys should? The horror stories of housing are a double edged sword: the Indian Industry (both on reserve and on the Hill) shove Southern drywall shacks onto the reserves under the noses of people who are largely unemployed and surrounded by woodlands from which they could use that resource to build unlimited housing to their own liking and benefit. But: do you see anyone getting of their ass and doing so? Cut the BS out, give each treaty number a cheque from the feds and let them self-govern by taxing back what they need to provide whatever services - social and otherwise - their elected officials deem appropriate.

sick care: we do a reasonable job of health care, and could do a lot more and better. BUT: we do a mediocre job of sick care since we live too close to the Yankee Doodle Dandies who think everything is a business. Every other developed nation knows full well that it is a social service, and should be treated as such. Most have private clinics and practitioners working alongside of public servants with same professional status. As I already mentioned: we are Europeans and need to behave like same, not Yanks - and many of the medical problems will be solved.

re post 16, 17, 18 - economy: Surprise Argus missed this one, since without this being dealt with successfully, the rest is irrelevant. Again, we are too close to the Yanks, and have come to believe that Wall Street and Bay Street are part of a healthy economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of what they do is nothing but Casino Captialism, where wealth is redistributed, but seldom is any wealth created. That is why Manhattan is flying high while Main Street USA is in the toilet. AND, we are dead set (careful choice of words) on emulating. Solution is very simple: stop giving a free tax ride to speculative gains (in fact tax the shit out of it) and leave dividend income alone (i.e. no double taxation on it).

[?Impact]

leave dividend income alone (i.e. no double taxation on it).

So how should dividend income be taxed? Do you want it to receive special corporate taxation, or taxed as personal income at the full rate (not 50% off) of the person receiving it?

[cannuck]

So how should dividend income be taxed? Do you want it to receive special corporate taxation, or taxed as personal income at the full rate (not 50% off) of the person receiving it?

Once corporate taxes are paid, dividends are distributed from a tax paid source. Taxing the shareholder is a penalty on them for investing in what might well be a wealth-creating venture. it is double taxation.

If capital gains are taxed properly (I am thinking 99% on first month then tapering down over ten or more years to corporate or personal rate) money will be invested in capitalistic enterprise (adding value to resources - i.e. making things, doing things) vs. casino capital play (speculating on the change in price of stock due to hype, greed, all of the things that have no relation to creating wealth, just re-distributing). Main Street has essentially been de-funded due to the orgy of speculative activity (never mind derivatives, yet another topic).

[TimG]

So how should dividend income be taxed? Do you want it to receive special corporate taxation, or taxed as personal income at the full rate (not 50% off) of the person receiving it?

The way things are set up now is someone working for their own company pays exactly the same tax whether they take profits in dividends or pay themselves salary the the personal tax reduction is almost (not perfectly) offset by the corporate taxes paid. Increasing the taxes on dividends would create a tax preference for paying profits out as wages to owners which would reduce the corporate tax collected for every additional dollar collected in personal tax. Edited June 2, 2016 by TimG

[Argus]

So how should dividend income be taxed? Do you want it to receive special corporate taxation, or taxed as personal income at the full rate (not 50% off) of the person receiving it?

Like everything else, I'd say the rate should be progressive. Mitt Romney famously earned many millions in dividends. But on the other hand, regular Canadian seniors rely on them for retirement income. And it's in the government's interest to encourage Canadians to invest in Canadian companies (foreign companies do not get the dividend tax credit).

[Argus]

Once corporate taxes are paid, dividends are distributed from a tax paid source. Taxing the shareholder is a penalty on them for investing in what might well be a wealth-creating venture. it is double taxation.

If capital gains are taxed properly (I am thinking 99% on first month then tapering down over ten or more years to corporate or personal rate) money will be invested in capitalistic enterprise (adding value to resources - i.e. making things,

Young and growing companies, like tech companies, generally don't pay dividends. People buy their stock in hopes of capital appreciation. If they're going to lose the capital appreciation to taxes they won't buy the stock and those companies won't be able to use that money to grow and prosper.

[cannuck]

Young and growing companies, like tech companies, generally don't pay dividends. People buy their stock in hopes of capital appreciation. If they're going to lose the capital appreciation to taxes they won't buy the stock and those companies won't be able to use that money to grow and prosper.

That is why I would see the punitive capital gains tax be reduced over time to regular tax rate. big tax up front bumps the game players out and has investors in place instead of speculators. How quickly we forget the dotcom debacle when 90% of the companies were never intended to do anything except use up the IPO funding while the street ran them up, cashed out and dumped the loss on the hoardes of suckers who came to the Casino late.

Edited June 2, 2016 by cannuck

[Icebound]

The "taxation problem" in-so-far as it affects the "economy" has little to do with taxation rates. And especially, if you define that "a growing economy" means not only that more people are working, but that those who ARE working, are increasing their buying power.

The taxation model is simply too complex... sales taxes, property taxes, income, split-income, corporate, capital, etc., etc.. And then divided between 3 jurisdictions, Federal, Provincial, Municipal, sometimes with overlaps.

We know (or we should know), that to have a "Great" Country, we need its infrastructure and institutions to be strong, and that means funding.

But when we are faced with a funding crunch, any attempt to adjust the revenue stream ... "raise taxes" as you like to call it ... distorts the economy, because it is perceived to fall on ONE particular segment of society.... Raising property taxes penalizes the lonely widow trying to live out her life in her own home... raising corporate taxes loses jobs, supposedly.... raising income taxes penalizes workers... and so on.

And then, of course, we start to create exemptions... we will increase your corporate tax, but you can write off your round of golf with a business buddy.... just to distort the economy even more.

So our ostrich mentality to to simply hide from the problem, tweak a few things here and there to pretend that we are doing something, cut out a few programs without any thought as to their long-term relevance.... and basically just let the country stagnate.

There has been plenty of ongoing debate about the "efficiency" or the "fairness" of increasing/decreasing the GST vs the same for Income/Corporate Taxes.

But why is this country not looking at reducing (or even eliminating) all those?.... and replacing with a broad Financial Transaction Tax. At least study it... Properly implemented, it would not only be "fair", since the bulk of financial transactions are by the richest people, but it would catch some of the underground-economy activity. Even Money entering the legitimate economy through Laundering would be taxed..

[taxme]

The "taxation problem" in-so-far as it affects the "economy" has little to do with taxation rates. And especially, if you define that "a growing economy" means not only that more people are working, but that those who ARE working, are increasing their buying power.

The taxation model is simply too complex... sales taxes, property taxes, income, split-income, corporate, capital, etc., etc.. And then divided between 3 jurisdictions, Federal, Provincial, Municipal, sometimes with overlaps.

We know (or we should know), that to have a "Great" Country, we need its infrastructure and institutions to be strong, and that means funding.

But when we are faced with a funding crunch, any attempt to adjust the revenue stream ... "raise taxes" as you like to call it ... distorts the economy, because it is perceived to fall on ONE particular segment of society.... Raising property taxes penalizes the lonely widow trying to live out her life in her own home... raising corporate taxes loses jobs, supposedly.... raising income taxes penalizes workers... and so on.

And then, of course, we start to create exemptions... we will increase your corporate tax, but you can write off your round of golf with a business buddy.... just to distort the economy even more.

So our ostrich mentality to to simply hide from the problem, tweak a few things here and there to pretend that we are doing something, cut out a few programs without any thought as to their long-term relevance.... and basically just let the country stagnate.

There has been plenty of ongoing debate about the "efficiency" or the "fairness" of increasing/decreasing the GST vs the same for Income/Corporate Taxes.

But why is this country not looking at reducing (or even eliminating) all those?.... and replacing with a broad Financial Transaction Tax. At least study it... Properly implemented, it would not only be "fair", since the bulk of financial transactions are by the richest people, but it would catch some of the underground-economy activity. Even Money entering the legitimate economy through Laundering would be taxed..

Too many accountants make money from the tax system and how it is set up, not to forget the amount of government employees it takes to run this stupid tax system that we have. A straight flat tax would make doing taxes mush easier and simple. But knowing how politicians think life should not be easy but difficult. Politicians enjoy keeping we the people confused and make things difficult because it helps them to maintain the idea that this is the only way to keep control of the we the people. And it works because we the people let them. Canadian taxpayer's are a lazy bunch who would rather keep the system the way it is than improve it. Creating more bike lanes and saving the trees are what it is all about to most of them. Sad indeed.