Treat Addiction as a Disease

[TimG]

But organized crime out of the drug business.

You do realize that organized crime makes a lot of money selling legal drugs?

[dre]

You do realize that organized crime makes a lot of money selling legal drugs?

Its a tiny percentage of these markets though. If there was prohibition it would be a hundred percent.

[dre]

You do realize that alcohol is the cause of more crime than drugs largely because it is legal?

No, the reason alcohol is a factor in so many crimes is due to the nature of the substance and how it removes inhibition in a way most other drugs don't.

Edited April 1, 2016 by dre

[eyeball]

How do you explain illegal cigarettes, a multi billion dollar industry......

Drug crime...Drug state...can you spot the difference? Apparently consumers have a hard time or just don't care.

[jazzer]

OxyContin is still available.

I thought it was delisted from provincial drug plans some years ago, but maybe Alberta still prescribes it. OxyNEO seems to be a replacement. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sales-of-opiod-drug-prescriptionsskyrocketing/article26008639/

Edited April 1, 2016 by jazzer

[jacee]

You do realize that organized crime makes a lot of money selling legal drugs?

Tim, if all drugs are legally available to adults, organized crime will no longer be involved.

.

Edited April 1, 2016 by jacee

[Wilber]

Tim, if all drugs are legally available to adults, organized crime will no longer be involved.

.

Not really, who is going to take the liability for providing all the latest designer street drugs that are out there as well as the latest flavours of the day for those who are looking for something different or something more? There seems to be a new one every month or so.

http://www.stuartxchange.com/StreetNames.html

Edited April 1, 2016 by Wilber

[TimG]

Tim, if all drugs are legally available to adults, organized crime will no longer be involved.

So in your vision of the world people should be able to pop into Walmart and load up on heroin, cocaine or any other currently prescribed drug for the weekend?

Because if your vision of the world still expects doctors to decide who gets what dosage of the drug then there will be crime to supply people who do not want to limit themselves to dosages prescribed by a doctor.

If you really think we should have no restrictions are you prepared for the massive healthcare consequences that would follow widespread use of extremely harmful chemicals? Personally, I think crime would be easier to manage.

Edited April 1, 2016 by TimG

[dre]

So in your vision of the world people should be able to pop into Walmart and load up on heroin, cocaine or any other currently prescribed drug for the weekend?

Because if your vision of the world still expects doctors to decide who gets what dosage of the drug then there will be crime to supply people who do not want to limit themselves to dosages prescribed by a doctor.

If you really think we should have no restrictions are you prepared for the massive healthcare consequences that would follow widespread use of extremely harmful chemicals? Personally, I think crime would be easier to manage.

I wouldn't legalize and tax hard drugs. Just decriminalize and redirect all the wasted enforcement money towards treatment and harm reduction.

[Big Guy]

I get the message that TimG is satisfied with out current legal and medical approach to drug abuse and addiction.

If he is not, then what does he suggest as an improvement?

[jacee]

So in your vision of the world people should be able to pop into Walmart and load up on heroin, cocaine or any other currently prescribed drug for the weekend?

Because if your vision of the world still expects doctors to decide who gets what dosage of the drug then there will be crime to supply people who do not want to limit themselves to dosages prescribed by a doctor.

If you really think we should have no restrictions are you prepared for the massive healthcare consequences that would follow widespread use of extremely harmful chemicals? Personally, I think crime would be easier to manage.

So what are the dosages on alcohol?

.

[jacee]

I wouldn't legalize and tax hard drugs. Just decriminalize and redirect all the wasted enforcement money towards treatment and harm reduction.

Why leave distribution in criminal hands when we can tax and regulate and profit ... like alcohol?

.

[dre]

Why leave distribution in criminal hands when we can tax and regulate and profit ... like alcohol?

.

Same reason we banned asbestos insulation. There's some things that should not be actively marketed. I wouldn't want to throw someone in jail for possession of asbestos, but I don't really want in the insulation isle at the local hardware store either.

I'm not a fan of dime-bag street dealers, but I'm even more worried about distribution being handled by gigantic pharmy companies with huge advertising budgets.

Not only that but Canadians and our politicians are too stupid to come up with a good plan on our own... so I would just emulate what they've done in Portugal. Drug related deaths were cut by about 90%. Drug related HIV transmission almost disappeared, and the number of people seeking treatment went through the roof. And they kept most of the distribution illegal.

Id CERTAINLY legalize distribution of marijuana though. That's a no brainer.

[eyeball]

Not really, who is going to take the liability for providing all the latest designer street drugs that are out there as well as the latest flavours of the day for those who are looking for something different or something more? There seems to be a new one every month or so.

http://www.stuartxchange.com/StreetNames.html

People who use them should be held liable as outlined in a Substance Use Act. But we can't have an SUA that simply deals with impairment because the government that introduces it will be vilified and crucified for being enablers by opposition parties and other morally inspired entrepreneurs. Interestingly enough the government holds servers of alcohol responsible for the actions of the people they serve. Even after the person they've served has left the bar and gone home and beaten a spouse to death the server can be held liable. Meanwhile the same government will happily sell you all the booze you like without limit or consequence.

The problem with the war against drugs like other wars on fill-in-blank-here, is that they ignore the root causes which in the case of drugs is the demand for them. Did I hear someone mention denial a least a dozen times in the last day or so?

[jacee]

Same reason we banned asbestos insulation. There's some things that should not be actively marketed. I wouldn't want to throw someone in jail for possession of asbestos, but I don't really want in the insulation isle at the local hardware store either.

I'm not a fan of dime-bag street dealers, but I'm even more worried about distribution being handled by gigantic pharmy companies with huge advertising budgets.

We don't have advertising for alcohol, wouldn't have for drugs.

Not only that but Canadians and our politicians are too stupid to come up with a good plan on our own...

We are not stupid.

We have a distribution system.

And no advertising.

so I would just emulate what they've done in Portugal. Drug related deaths were cut by about 90%. Drug related HIV transmission almost disappeared, and the number of people seeking treatment went through the roof. And they kept most of the distribution illegal.

Id CERTAINLY legalize distribution of marijuana though. That's a no brainer.

No kidding.

.

[Wilber]

People who use them should be held liable as outlined in a Substance Use Act. But we can't have an SUA that simply deals with impairment because the government that introduces it will be vilified and crucified for being enablers by opposition parties and other morally inspired entrepreneurs. Interestingly enough the government holds servers of alcohol responsible for the actions of the people they serve. Even after the person they've served has left the bar and gone home and beaten a spouse to death the server can be held liable. Meanwhile the same government will happily sell you all the booze you like without limit or consequence.

The problem with the war against drugs like other wars on fill-in-blank-here, is that they ignore the root causes which in the case of drugs is the demand for them. Did I hear someone mention denial a least a dozen times in the last day or so?

As much as the law can, people who use them are already held liable for the damage they do to others, how do you hold them liable for the damage they do to themselves. There can never be any quality control to designer street drugs and dre's example of asbestos is a valid one in spite of the fact asbestos does have some practical uses.

[cybercoma]

I thought it was delisted from provincial drug plans some years ago, but maybe Alberta still prescribes it. OxyNEO seems to be a replacement. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sales-of-opiod-drug-prescriptionsskyrocketing/article26008639/

kIt may be delisted from drug plans, but it's still prescribed in NB and ON afaik.

[jazzer]

kIt may be delisted from drug plans, but it's still prescribed in NB and ON afaik.

I don't wish to drift too far afield from the OP but I take the prescribing of these types of painkillers to casual users personally. My son became addicted to oxycontin and had to go on methadone. Unfortunately he was over medicated and became toxic with too many prescribed meds in his system and didn't survive.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jazzer

[cybercoma]

Sorry for your loss. I wish there was a better way than prescribing people opiates. Doctors and pharmacists need to take some responsibility to wean people off them appropriately. There's a lot of R&D these days going into searching for non-addictive painkillers.

[Wilber]

That's awful jazzer, I can't imagine what that must be like to lose a child that way. It would seem over prescription is a real problem, whether it is pain killers or antibiotics.

[eyeball]

My wife has been prescribed oxycodone for years for pain management. She often makes a months amount last up to three months.

She made a switch to a new doctor recently and the crap she's had to go through to justify herself and that she's not addicted is frankly ridiculous.

Again I point the fact she could buy as much booze without so much as a bye your leave or a moment's hesitation.

[Big Guy]

A few years ago I had a knee replacement. I also chose to follow a very aggressive physiotherapy recovery program. It consisted daily of exercise in the morning, exercises in the early afternoon and physiotherapy (where the physiotherapist would force the leg to bend and straighten). Sunday was restricted to only my exercises.

Because of the pain produced during each session, I would take oxycontin before every session. I tried once to skip it before a physiotherapy session but I ended up passing out from the pain so the therapist insisted that I take the drug.

This went on for about 5 weeks at which time I was able to run. At that point I was having difficulty sleeping, had periods of unexplained sweating and an intermittent shaking in my extremities. I visited my personal physician and she informed me that I was showing signs of physical withdrawal. I immediately switched medications and continue with pain management medication but no opiates.

I still have about 20 oxycontin tablets in my medicine tablets "just in case".

[jazzer]

In my son's case he was originally prescribed oxys to relieve a fairly minor neck injury. But the doc gave him like a three month supply or so and continued to supply him for months after. He didn't seem to care about addiction issues. After he went on methadone the same doc prescribed him antidepressants and sleeping pills. My son didn't overdose: the combination of all the meds just made him toxic. Some of these doctors need to be accountable and follow up with their patients that are using these powerful pain meds imo.

[cybercoma]

You should seek legal counsel on the chance that you have a malpractice case.

[TimG]

A good article on why legalization is no solution for some chemicals:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/a-killer-high-how-canada-got-addicted-tofentanyl/article29570025/

That does not mean that drugs like Marijuana should be prohibited.

But it does mean there will always be avenues for organized crime even if we adopt sensible policies on mood altering chemicals because a certain percentage of society will always seek an escape from reality.

Personally, I think that anyone who wants to use drugs like heroin, cocaine et. al. for recreational purposes is an either already an addict on one their way to becoming one. So I do not feel there is any scenario where it makes sense to allow these drugs to be treated like alcohol or pot.

Edited April 10, 2016 by TimG