Palestinian and/or Muslim war crimes

[Rue]

In an opinion piece by Jonathan Feldstein in:

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/standing-with-israel/54960-the-winter-of-bias-against-israel-simply-won-t-end

he criticizes the UN Secretary General for engaging in the same apology on this forum for Palestinian and

Muslim terrorists we see by the usual clique of anti Israelis who will not and refuse to acknowledge either Palestinian

or Muslim terrorism and present Israel as if its soldiers operate in a vacuum and for no reason arrack Palestinians.

I say enough with the bullshit double standard that ignores Palestinian terrorism and Muslim terrorism in any discussion

on the Middle East and instead chooses only to fixate on Israel’s existence and the fact that Israelis are Jews as the

cause of terrorism couched in stating its settlement on the West Bank that causes terrorism, nothing else.

Now to be fair its not just the UN Secretary General, but US Secretary of State John Kerry who has stated this joined

in by all the usual terror cells.

T

here’s also plenty of company from a mix of neo Nazis, liberal and progressive leftists.

Here’s the apologist line Ban used that Feldstein criticized:

“Speaking at the U.N., and in a subsequent NY Times op-ed, Ban shows his preoccupation with the alleged "occupation," using the term several times in just 750 words. He misrepresents reality in the Middle East in a way that would make

Arafat blush.

His written diatribe was triggered by Israelis taking exception to his statement that it is "human nature" to resist occupation, and therefore a justification for Palestinian Arab violence. Ban took offense suggesting Israel was shooting

the messenger.

His words were inaccurate and misleading, and the fact that he took to the pages of the

NY Times to double down, rather than calm things down, is foreboding.

The premise of his remarks, that it is "human nature" to resist occupation, is a faulty foundation upon which the rest of his rant is based. If it were the case, one would hear of terrorism in Northern Cyprus, Western Sahara, Tibet and in places occupied by others just as one hears of terrorism from Palestinian Arabs. And when the Soviets occupied other countries, or in occupations past, we'd have heard of terrorism as a global plague, not one largely limited to the Arab

world. We don't.

Claiming that resistance of occupation is "human nature" is also racist against Palestinian Arabs because it says they don't have the human capacity not to resist through terrorism.

And if the Palestinian Arabs are indeed occupied, Ban's referral to "nearly half-century of occupation" is dishonest

too. In fact, Israel supported the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan to establish two states, and it was the 1949 occupation by Jordan and Egypt that prevented that. Did the Palestinian Arabs resist that occupation with violence? No. They made "armed struggle" a national pastime, and saved their best hate and terrorism to annihilate Israel, something to which many still subscribe and participate openly.

Ban ignores the fact that since 1949, a U.N. agency (UNRWA) not only propagates the problem of "Palestinian refugees" through use of its schools as safe havens for terrorists, and maintaining refugee camps in squalor. UNRWA enables this, and fosters the building of terrorist tunnels but prevents the relocation of families into permanent housing. UNRWA uniquely confers refugee status to now five generations, providing a perverse inheritance that continues to keep them in squalor. And he blames Israel for that.

When he references the "nearly half-century occupation," he's referring to the outcome of the 1967 Six-Day War. But U.N. resolution 242 that followed the war called for "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." Ban is disingenuous when he suggests that all Israeli construction in "occupied" territory is "illegal" because as written and understood even in 1967, Israel was never going to have to withdraw from "all" territory. It was never stated, and was never inferred. Ban has become the Jedi master of revisionist U.N. history.

Regarding building, Ban is quick to decry building of homes like mine built in these areas, and equate that "thousands

of Palestinian homes" are at "risk" of demolition. He neglects to note that building of my home, and those of my neighbors, is done largely by Palestinian Arab laborers who receive good pay and conditions, and provides them a source of income that does not exist in their own communities.

….If the Palestinian Arabs invested a fraction of what the world doles out to perpetuate their victimhood in things to improve their own environment, that would be refreshing. Abandoning the expense of millions used to invest in war, violence, terror and incitement would be a good next step. But maybe they can start by ceasing to siphon public funds to pad personal bank accounts, making poor Palestinian Arab leaders incredibly wealthy.”

[Rue]

Jonathan Tobin in the article, Is It Human Nature to Kill Jews, in

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/israel/human-nature-kill-jews-ban-ki-moon/

also addressed the apology of Palestinian-Muslim terrorist stating:

"The reason why his speech (Ban’s speech saying Palestinian terrorism is human nature) deserves the most severe criticism goes deeper than one line—as offensive as it may be—and ... is rooted in a view of the conflict that is apparently

impervious to reason or willing to take into account the evidence outlining the real reason for the ongoing violence.

(Today's) surge in terror was not the product of "frustration" with the occupation but a series of calculated lies

about alleged Israeli threats to the Temple Mount mosques intended to stir up religious fervor and allow Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas to compete with his Hamas rivals…..

Israel has made it clear again and again that it is ready for peace if a sea change in Palestinian political culture ever allows their leaders to embrace a chance for a permanent end to the conflict.

Until then, it has no choice but to manage the situation as best it can. It is unfortunate, but that does mean the status quo will continue. But if it is untenable for Palestinians, they have no one but themselves to blame….

Whatever the ills of the current situation in the West Bank, it is not 'human nature' that drives the Palestinians to

terror.

Rather it is their belief that they can eventually destroy Israel. By legitimizing that fantasy, albeit unwittingly, Banhas become part of the problem, not the solution. Instead of complaining about his critics, he needs to re-evaluate his assumptions….

That's why criticisms of Ban's rant about 'human nature' were neither unfair nor out of bounds. By focusing primarily onIsrael and treating the real obstacle to peace as an afterthought, he does more than distort the truth about the conflict.

He is feeding a prejudiced view of the dispute and effectively giving Palestinians a pass for terrorism. That is something that he would not dare to do with regard to any other outbreak of terror against a U.N.-member state.

Only Israel remains the object of such persistent bias. Under the circumstances, it is only reasonable for observers to conclude that he, like the rest of the U.N. bureaucracy, is infected by a double-standard that is rooted in

anti-Semitism."

That double standard is alive and well on this board-all the comments criticizing Ban apply to the terrorist apologists on this board who only surface to piss on Israel and ignore any thing else.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Only Israel remains the object of such persistent bias. Under the circumstances, it is only reasonable for observers to conclude that he, like the rest of the U.N. bureaucracy, is infected by a double-standard that is rooted in

anti-Semitism."

That double standard is alive and well on this board-all the comments criticizing Ban apply to the terrorist apologists on this board who only surface to piss on Israel and ignore any thing else.

Back to the anti-semitism already?

Israel is held to a higher standard than the Palestinians in my view. And when they don't go for those higher standards (case in point settlements) they are criticized, and for good reason. There is the double standard with you even when you agree that the settlements are not helping the progress.

[Rue]

Yes the blatant anti semtiism that attacks Jews for being Jews using the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies on the other thread that you don't challenge and then this thread where the same inidviduals won't respond to the thread topic.

Yes hiding behind settlements as an excuse to insult and attack Jews for choosing to be Jews is anti semitic. You want to discuss settlements being an obstacle to peace, fine. Fair game. You want to criticize Israeli soldiers who act excessively, fair gane. Smeer all Jews, smeer all Israelis as evil, then it goes over the line and I have yet to see you challenge Meyer's diatribes on Jews.

I have yet to see you go on the other thread and point out when the comments have nothing to do with the state of Israel and everything to do with attacking holocaust surviving Jews as being against democracy because they did not remain in Europe after WW2.

Look at the attempts to misdirect from discussing Palestinian terrorism and Muslim terrorism before you lecture me on anti Semitism.

The decision by some posters who I challenge to focus only on Israel and not discuss both sides of the conflict is deliberate bias and the veneer of that bias in the case of words placed by Hudson Jones, Big Guy and Meyer is on record on this forum. Their past words on these two threads speak blatantly to the agenda of insulting Jews for choosing to be Jewish in a way they think they can unilaterally dismiss as unacceptable.

The pith and substance of the anti Semitism I address has to deal with denying any Jew the right to be a national. That is the issue-an issue you do not address/ An issue of dfscrimination that flows from the Muslim religious belief that Jews can not be equal to Muslims and own land let alone have a nation.

That's what fuels the terrorism. You hide behind the settlement issue. Its convenient. It meams you can remain silent when Meyer and Big Guy use words that question he right to Jews to exist as a national people and blatantly ignores Muslim and Palestinian terrorism and calls all Israelis, all Jews as criminals.

Go on keep joining along and sing the anti Jew song, No skin off my back. No one's taking my skin.

I am hear to illustrate the two faced double standard of how people like you look the other way and try justify discrimination, double standards against Jews, among other things.

Now when someone wants to hide from me and say, he doesn't read what I write because its too long, I laugh. tee hee.

Now back to the thread topic.

By the way on that other thread, it hasn't discussed any Israeli war crime. Neither does the thread on anti Semitism discuss that issue which you try engage me in on this thread to avoid the issue of Palestinian and Muslim terrorism.

But hey why discuss the thread issue right?

[Rue]

Here's the issue GhostH won't address and tries to defocus away from as simply an unfair accusation of anti semitism-a thread topic he already started a thread for and no deliberately bringsto this thread.

Here's why Big Guy says my posts are too lengthy so he won't respond and why he comes to this thread to discuss israel War crimes when he already has a thread he started on it.

They won't discuss Palestinian terrorism or Muslim extremism but they do want to detract me from doing so even so far as to have Big Guy try justify not responding to me with personal attacks that I deliberately misquoted Meyer so he does not have to address Meyer's attack on holocaust surviving Jews on his thread. Lol.

Oh come now boys let's deal with the topic shall we.

Let's start with this article. I use it because it comes from an Israeli and outs a name and life to other Israelis. It says loudly, the negative stereotype that Jews are Nazis as Meyer keeps repeating or Jews who are Israeli are all criminals as Big Guy states is ignorant bigotry..hateful anti semitic bigotry posed as criticism of Israeli state policies.

The other thread on supposed war crimes hasn't discussed a war crime-it simply smeers all Jews for having chosen to express their identity as a national one. It demonizes all Jews as criminals.

This thread is here to state, no they are no criminals. They are human beings, who have the right to exist as Jewish nationals and no they are not criminals. they are righting for their right to exist.

I now refer to this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11921994/Why-is-the-world-ignoring-a-wave-by Arsen Ostrovsky Oct, 9, 2015

"In the last week, my country, Israel, including our capital, the Holy City of Jerusalem, have come under an unprecedented wave of Palestinian terror.
A week ago, Eitam and Na’ama Henkin were brutally executed by Palestinian terrorists point-blank in their car. Their four children, Matan, 9, Nitzan, 7, Neta, 4, and Itamar, 9 months old, who are now orphaned, were still in the back seat and miraculously unharmed. Their lives are now irreparably altered.

Days later, two more Israelis were stabbed to death in Jerusalem. One of the men killed was holding his two year old child at the time. More lives and families torn apart.

Two weeks ago, Alexander Levlovitz, who was on his way home after Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year) dinner, was murdered when Palestinian youthsthrew rocks at his car and he lost control.

Over the past 48 hours in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and virtually all parts of Israel, we have had over 150 terror attacks, including stabbings, shootings, stones thrown and vehicular rammings.

Yet somehow the international community is silent in the face of this terror onslaught against my people. Is our blood cheaper? Do Jewish lives not matter?

Let there be no mistakes, ifs, buts or maybes. We are being targeted for one reason and one reason only: we are Jews.

I understand Europe has a number of pressing concerns, including Islamic State and the wave of Syrian refugees, but what about us? Do we not count?

Many leaders, especially in Europe, are quick to condemn Israeli settlements, yet sure take their time to utter a muddied, equivocal word of condemnation against these terror attacks. Likewise human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty.

Even more exasperating are those international leaders who, after only noticing the situation when Israel has the audacity to defend itself, then predictably call for us to exercise "restraint". Excuse me? Restraint?

Imagine for a moment if people were being mowed down with cars, guns or knives by Islamic terrorists on the streets of central London, Paris, Washington or Moscow. How would leaders of those countries react?

Where are all those so-called enlightened liberals, who continue to call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against the Jewish State, but are silent in the face of Palestinian terror against Jews?”"

Well I sure as hell know where these enlightened liberals are. They are on the other thread pissing on Israel or the anti semitism thread rationalizing why attacking Jews for being Jews is acceptable as long as you put Zionist or Israel somewhere in the attack.

They are on this thread trying to detract from discussing Palestinian and Muslim terrorism and to try as GhostH does with me to isolate the conflict and terrorism as simply a reaction to settlements.

The other two threads as do the ones before them pissing on Israel for existing as a Jewish state I argue are used as part of an agenda to detract from discussing Muslim extremism and terrorism and to rationalize ignoring attacks on Jews not just in Israel but world wide.

Now did Big Guy, Eye, Dre, Hudson Jones. GhostH or any of the other so called enlightened leftists who are not anti semites, just respectful critics of Zionism or Israeli settlements..did any of them start a post to criticize this speech as pointed out in the article:

" in a speech on Palestinian TV on September 16th, Abbas proudly stated “we bless every drop of blood spilled for Jerusalem. With the help of Allah, every shaheed (martyr) will be in heaven.” He then added “Al-Aksa is ours and so is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. They [Jews] have no right to desecrate them with their filthy feet.”"

No of course not. Any of them discuss the above and condemn it. No. They will of course blame the terrorism on Netanyahu and settlements.

I am here to state the following:

1-Palestinian and Muslim terrorism as long as it was directed only at Jews or better still only Jews in Israel was no problem to the West-the refrain was-terrorism only happens to Jews because they deserve it for being Zionist or Zionist sympathizers and hey if they were simply killed because they were Jews as they were in the first Paris attack, well Obama explaining it was a random attack and it was a coincidence they were Jews;

2-the world could have cared less when it was Jews being attacked, but now that the attacks are no longer just against Jews, ooopsy look at the change of tone, i.e., consider this statement by PM Cameron of Britain as pointed out in the article:

" In a groundbreaking speech on Islamic extremism this July, the British Prime Minister David Cameron made clear, if you say “violence in London isn’t justified, but suicide bombs in Israel are a different matter” – thednou too are part of the problem."

Europe is waking up from a time when they thought if they sat silent in the face of Muslim extremism, and terrorism and simply dismissed it as a Jew thing, it would remain only a Jew thing. Well it has spread precisely because it was never a Jew thing.

As much as liberal leftists keep trying to restate anti semitism and extremist Muslim terrorism as simply a Jew thing, it never was/

Muslim extremism and terrorism, Muslim terrorism and extremism has continued since the religion came about and its continued to kill Muslims and non Muslims for over 3,000 years. The creation of Israel is but one small blip in the on-going Muslim wars against fellow Muslims and non Muslims.

The millions who flee the Middle East, can no longer be blamed on Israel-the rampant corruption, civil wars, tyranny against Muslims by Muslims and non Muslims from failed Muslim states that fuels civil war and terrorism, it can no longer be blamed on Israel. Its far too messy for that now.

The blame the upppity Jew for not knowing their place and upsetting Muslims shtick is over. The genie is out of the bottle so to speak.

The days of trying to ignore Muslim extremism and terrorism and simplify it as caused by Jews for being Zionists or nationalists is over. Its dead.

The terrorism going on now is a war between Western Judeo-Christian valuies v. extremist Muslim ones and Israelis, Europeans, moderate Muslims, everyone, is being used as the excuse for why it happens.

Pure and simple the greatest obstacle to peace all over the world, not just on the West Bank is and always remains terrorism and to be specific Muslim terrorism since it is the largest form right now and fuels its legitimacy on trying to appeal to people to hate Jews.

The best way to empower terrorism for pro Muslim terrorists who sit in arm chairs is to fuel anti semitic sentiment. It gives a legitimacy to terrorism and repackages it as rational, reasonable and the fault of others.

When you melt down the pro terrorist agenda, it reduces all Muslims to a level where they are incapable of being rational and sitting and finding ways t leave peacefully with Jews, the only thing they are capable of is acting like "savages".

This is why I argue the anti Israelis on this board are more bigoted against Palestinians and Muslims than any Jew they try get you to hate for being Israeli.

I lived with Palestinians. No they do not feel terrorism is their only choice. That is an ignorant stereotype advanced by the words of Bug Guy on this forum or indirectly bu GhostH when he tries t melt down the issue to simply resentment against settlements or a semantic debate on what anti semitism is.

The fact is the majority of Palestinians are held hostage by a minority of extremist terrorists and they need to be liberated just as most Muslims across the Muslim world need to be liberated from their tyranical corrupt regimes and antiquated, backword, dinosaur imams and mullahs.

Israeli Jews and the sate of Israel are not the real issue-millions of Muslims subjected and controlled by Muslimc clergy tyrants in bed with military regimes is.

[Rue]

If you asked the anti Israelis on this board obsessed with Israel about Muslim terrorism they change the topic to pissing on Israel.

What they do not acknowledge are for example these terrorist groups who are in a state of war with Israel now and believe the only solution is to not just wipe out Israel and take it back to form a sharia law state with Jordan and the West Bank and Gaza but to kill Jews world wide in a greater religious world to install a one world caliphate Muslim council;

Here are the groups they won't acknowledge:

Hamas

Palestine Islamic Jihad

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade

Popular Resistance Committees (PRC)

Democratic Front for the
Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)

Popular Front for the
Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)

Fatah (Tanzim) of the Palestinian Authority

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC)

Edited April 10, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

At the roots and pith and substance of Palestinian terrorism is that Israel pre-1967 does not belong to Jews and should be a Muslim state.

Each day in their schools and in their media, this mantra of getting back Israel is broadcast and repeated to Palestinians

It begins and ends with brain washing hatred into children as young as possible:

PA TV host teaches kids that “the 1948 lands” (i.e., Israel) will return to Palestinians one day
Source: Official Palestinian Authority TV, Nov. 6, 2015

Official PA TV program Children’s Talk
Official PA TV host: “Do you know what the 1948 lands are?”
Girl Batoul: “Yes, they are the lands that the occupation took from the Palestinians in 1948 (i.e., Israel).”
Official PA TV host: “Very good. One of these days they will return to us, right?"
Girl Batoul: “Yes.”
Official PA TV host: “Of course they will return to us.”

[Rue]

Holocaust denial and trivialization is a classic Palestinian Authority script. It should be no surprise on the other thread its repeated non stop by "Scott Meyer". Consider its source:

Palestinians from Fatah and Hamas have denied the holocaust accused Israel of burning Palestinians in ovens, as depicted in he Palestinian newspaper, Star PA daily which wrote: "The exhibit includes a large oven and inside it small [Palestinian] children are being burned; the picture speaks for itself,” as if the exhibit was documenting something true, source: Al-Ayyam, March 20, 2008.

The incitement to hate Jews, the very script you read from "Scott Meyer" can be found word for word in Palestinian daily papers, on its radio and t.v. each day.

My favourite was the Palestinian “National Committee for Defense of Children from the Holocaust which on Palestinian television had a pseuto Palestinian lecture adults that Dachau and Auschwitz; were only disinfecting sites.

Hamas runs on its TV "documentaries" that explained that it was Jewish leaders who planned the Holocaust, in order to eliminate Jews who were "disabled and handicapped”.

On PA Fatah TV, March 25, 2004 children were pro vided a play teaching them that Israel burned Palestinians in ovens.

Here's part of the narrative:

"They [israel] are the ones who did the Holocaust,
their knife cuts to the length and the width of our flesh...
They opened ovens for us, to bake human beings.
They destroyed the villages and burnt the cities.
And when an oven stops burning, they light a hundred [more] ovens.
Their hands are covered with the blood of our children."

The script coming across in the anti Israeli sites and particularly from Scott Meyer recycles the PA script originally written by Nazis who fled Germany at the end of WW2 and settled in Damascus, Alexandria, Cairo, Baghdad and produced script after script of this hatred to fuel the continuing war against Jews they could not finish in Europe.

Ironically the very founders of the PA were pro Nazi, financed by Nazis, allied with Nazis and we see them today try call the victims and targets of Nazis, Nazis to hide from their own true origins which continues to fuel their behavior today.

The Palestinian terrorists of today goose steep, give the Hitler salute and spew and parrot Nazi script.

[Rue]

Palestinian terrorists hero worship Hitler and Nazism. For years the Hitler mustache was found on Arab men imitating his mustache. Sadat and Nasser sported them and Anwar Sadat acknowledged he had a Hitler mustache and wore a uniform based on the Nazi uniform of Hitler.

Egypt, Syria and Iraq all modelled their uniforms goose stepping, salutes, government bureaucratic structures on Nazi Hermany. Their mukbarrat secret police was based on the Gestapo. They had constitutions imitating Hitler's decrees on Jews. Take a look at the Bath party flag, constitution and beliefs to see how it was a Nazi puppet imitation.

The open admiration of Hitler to this day continues.

Hitgler Salah

Hitler Abu-Alrab

Hitler Mahmud Abu-Libda

Has a nice ring to it.

[Rue]

Consider these words from Ali Salim in his article, "Hatred of Jews" , September 16, 2013,

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3897/hatred-of-jews

"We Muslims make the mistake of thinking Europeans really care about us, especially the Palestinians. We are wrong. Europeans simply hate the Jews more than they hate and fear us. The bitter truth is that Europeans usually intervene in a crisis only if it gives them an opportunity for Jew-bashing. It does not even mention Syria, or the rapes of women and children, and the beheadings, to say nothing of exploitation, discrimination, slavery, and other crimes against humanity."

I have always argued that young Muslims believe if they imitate anti semitic Europeans right down to the pen names and references to German heritage or English or other European heritage and begin spewing hatred about Jews, it will magically make their skin white from brown and get them accepted by the anti semites they fear.

I have always argued Muslims who feel hated by Europeans adapt and imitate their behavior thinking if they hate the same enemy they will be one of them and accepted and thus their need to spin that as Jews being Nazis when in fact its to deflect from what they became, Nazi puppets, spewers of the Nazi agenda through the Mullah of Jerusalem and their extremist leaders today.

The irony is the same neo Nazis they got into bed with, as long as thy remained in the Middle East now turn on them for flooding Europe.

All the hatred these Muslims have spewed at Israelis for being Jews has not won them honorary white status as the Mullah thought he won from Israel.

This is why Salim state:

"No matter how hard or how often we Muslims try, we are never able finally to end the connection our lives seem to have with the lives of the Jews. Watching Arab and Islamic television, especially during the holy month of Ramadan, brings the viewer to the inescapable conclusion that we have no real lives of our own, no unity and no value: our only motivation is having the Jews as a common enemy, with our lives dependent on them. We treat the Jews the way the rabid Christian anti-Semites treated them in the Middle Ages, blaming them for every illness, tragedy and misfortune. We blame them for the failures of Islam while only we are at fault for the catastrophes that befall us."

Just as in the past each Easter Christians incited hatred against Jews with the passion play, a Muslim version repeats itself today all across the Muslim world and not just on rhe West Bank or in Gaza which fuels the terrorism against Israel:

Salim goes on to state:

"Almost no Ramadan evening goes by without tedious "historical" dramas on Al-Jazeera and the other Arab TV channels, whose objective is to brainwash viewers with anti-Semitic propaganda. They deal with the Jews' denial of the Prophet Muhammad's message, Jewish attempts to poison him and their betrayal of him at the Battle of the Trench in Al-Medina. Almost all the series' end on the same note: the message is always that the fate of the Jews in the Palestine they stole from the Arabs will be the same as that Muhammad wreaked on them at Khybar, they will be slaughtered and their women and children will be sold into slavery.

That kind of incitement lends the Jews a Satanic power, it makes us think they can manipulate events around the world and are historically responsible for planning and carrying out every evil that exists. In reality, however, all it does is glorify their capabilities and achievements to the extent of turning them into a self-important legend. Thus we ourselves construct the myth of the genius of the Jews, their intellectual might and creative talents, while personally I am not entirely sure they deserve the reputation: they are mere mortals like everyone else, and often less.

In my opinion, the situation has reached such proportions within the nation of Islam that it is now a national mental illness, a collective obsession for which I see no cure. We accuse the Jews of wanting to rule the world, but one of the causes of our illness is that we expect Islam to take over the world."

Salim in fact states what Argus has stated on past posts and that is:

"Regression and the lack of social and governmental flexibility, along with poverty and ignorance, perpetuate the impotence of the nation of Islam and make it impossible for us to change, develop and progress -- a frustrating, ugly situation. While we have dreams of ruling the world, we wallow in disease and poverty, and we are behind the times in all the modern fields of endeavor. Our various regimes enjoy religious and tribal backing, that is why they are anti-democratic and cannot be saved. We find comfort only in recklessly bringing untold masses of children into a world with nothing to offer them."

[Big Guy]

Is this an attempt at a digital filibuster?

Also reminds me of the news anchor in "Network".

Time to chill.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Big Guy

[Rue]

To find the pith and substance of Palestinian terrorism I would argue requires understanding its interconnection to Islam and its brainwashing of the young:

"Palestinian hatred of the Jews emanates from three principal sociohistorical sources:

(1) Koranic and Hadith injunctions;

(2) extremist Islamic militancy; and

(3) the highly successful indoctrination and incitement of children established by the Palestinian Authority..

The evolution of this hatred is related to psychological processes arising from Arab childrearing practices. An authoritarian upbringing, particularly when severely punitive, is associated with personality characteristics incorporating a Manichean thought process and lack of empathy. Indoctrination of such personality types can readily orient them to terrorism and “martyrdom.” Severely dysfunctional families in the West are progenitors of particularly violent criminals. In the Arab-Muslim world, the strongly collective nature of society appears to incline such individuals to action on a group level. The essentially monolithic ideology and practice of Islam, which date from the inception of the Arab-Muslim world, make Palestinian hatred merely one instance of general Arab-Muslim, particularly Islamist, hatred of Jews and of the West.

The ubiquitous Palestinian hatred of Jews is shared by the major part of the current Arab-Muslim world, and is one facet of a mindset that also facilitates terrorism and suicide bombings. In view of the growing worldwide manifestations of these phenomena, it is crucial to examine what cultural factors foster them, with particular emphasis on group cohesion, and to what extent this differs from characteristic Western mores. Terrorism researchers now consider group cohesion to be the fundamental factor modulating terrorist activity. Western martyrdom terrorism is negligible except for those individuals influenced by radical Islam, and anti-Semitism, though common, is hardly ubiquitous.

source: http://jcpa.org/article/hatred-of-the-jews-as-a-psychological-phenomenon-in-palestinian-society/#sthash.ZIZlqAT9.dpuf

[Rue]

Further to the last post explaining the correlation of Palestinian terrorism and Islamic beliefs and then the interconnection of the two to brainwash children:

"A crucial factor in the Israeli-Palestinian struggle is the Palestinian Authority’s ongoing use of schoolbooks[9] and television for indoctrination to extremism, based on Koranic excerpts and directed at children from the earliest age. Keynote themes are Jews as the worst enemies of Islam; delegitimization of biblical Israelite history, which is usurped as Canaanite and Arab history;[10] denial of contemporary Jews’ descent from ancient Israelites who purportedly died out, today’s Jews instead being ostensibly descended from Khazar converts to Judaism; and the allegedly illegal Jewish seizure of the land of Palestine. Children are indoctrinated with the aim of destroying the Jewish state and with hatred of the West. “Martyr clips” on PA television showing children on their way to “martyrdom” display high emotion, intense colors and action, inspirational narrative, and accompanying, strongly rhythmic music with martial overtones. Also featured are inciting clips from religious sermons.[11] Such techniques are extremely effective, combining powerful psychological mechanisms of established learning theory with states of enhanced suggestibility and hypnotic phenomena, already fully described elsewhere.[12] -"

source:

http://jcpa.org/article/hatred-of-the-jews-as-a-psychological-phenomenon-in-palestinian-society/#sthash.ZIZlqAT9.dpuf

[10] Steven Stalinsky, “Palestinian Denial of Jewish Ties to Jerusalem,” FrontPageMagazine.com, 10 December 2004, www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable/.asp?ID=16269.

[11] E.g., Itamar Marcus, “Ask For Death,” Palestinian Media Watch, Special Report No. 40, October 2002. Current material is available from [email protected] and http://www.pmw.org.il/

[12] Daphne Burdman, “Education, Indoctrination and Incitement: Palestinian Children on Their Way to Martyrdom,” Terrorism and Political Violence, Vol. 15, No.1 (Spring 2003): 96-133. An abbreviated version of this paper was presented as “Psychological Mechanisms Underlying Martyrdom among Palestinian Youth” at the symposium on “New Directions in Psychiatric Aspects of Terrorism: Causes, Consequences, and Responses,“annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, Atlanta, 26 May 2005. - See more at: http://jcpa.org/article/hatred-of-the-jews-as-a-psychological-phenomenon-in-palestinian-society/#sthash.ZIZlqAT9.dpuf

[Rue]

I will now refer to the following when paraphrasing or quoting the opinions I present to explain why I believe Palestinian terrorism is Muslim terrorism and how to deal with it will require understanding and challenging Muslim extremism:

http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48883732.html;

Islam's War Against the Jews: Quotes from the Palestinian Authority

Palestinian TV, radio, newspapers and textbooks -- in teaching the Islamic attitude toward Jews -- have fueled an intense hatred for Israel and promoted violent jihad. by Itamar Marcus

In the anti Israel thread which presents the Palestinian Israeli conflict as all the fault of Jews who insisted on having a nation, I would argue that premises assumes only Palestinians or Muslims can have nations not Jews and is therefore hypocritical and uacceptable as it deems Jews not entitled to the same rights as Muslims. You won't ever get a response from thre anti Israelis particularly Big Guy or Hudson Jones who state they are against Muslim states although in fairness to Scott Meyer he did say at one point he is against any state being a religious one although he then quickly switched back to his focus on Jews, not Israel.

Big Guy expresses open admiration of Iran. You will never hear "Hudson Jones" or "Eye" or our other anti Israelis ever state they want Muslim states disbanded.

However some of them like to sucker in idealists like Jacee and and other people I consider genuine idealists by manipulating them into believing the conflict is only about Jewish settlements and if the Israelis returned to 1967 borders there would no longer be any problems. You've seen that position posted many times on this board complete with denials that Abbas, Hamas and all the other terrorists continues to state they will never recognize the Jewish state of Israel and the only just solution is to turn it into a Muslim state.

The "its only a settlement/border" dispute is a myth.

We saw that the premise of the Oslo Accords was an assumption that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not an irreconcilable religious war, but one over borders.

As the article then says:

"However, the Palestinian religious leaders, all appointees of the PA political leadership, are publicly preaching that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is part of Islam's eternal religious war against the Jews. Jews are portrayed as the eternal enemies of Allah, and the killing of Jews as Allah's will. On the national level, Allah prohibits acceptance of Israel's existence and will destroy it."

It goes on to state:

"This ideology is preached in sermons and religious lessons that are broadcast every Friday on official Palestinian TV and radio, and from the religious lessons appearing in PA newspapers and children's textbooks.

The Palestinians have redefined the conflict from one over borders, in which compromise may be a solution, into a religious war in which compromise is heretical. The implications for future peace are ominous."

I agree with the above and the purpose of the book summary of the above article which explains how the text summarized states:

The religious ideology of the Palestinian Authority religious leaders can be summarized by eight essential principles:

Regarding the Jews:

1-Jews are the enemy of Allah.

2-Islam is fighting a continuous religious war against the Jews.

3-The killing of Jews is a religious obligation.

4-Palestinians are the vanguard in this war against the Jews, and all Islamic nations are obligated to assist in this war.

Regarding Israel:

5-- All of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea (which includes all of Israel) is a religious Waqf -- an Islamic religious trust. Any Moslem who relinquishes any part to Israel is damned to Hell.

6- All agreements with Israel are inherently temporary in nature, and are signed only because of Israel's temporary balance of power advantage.

7- Allah will replace Moslems who shirk their obligation to battle Israel.

8- The ultimate destruction of Israel is a certainty."

I would argue today's Palestinian leaders continue to repeatedly use Islamic sources to defend their religious hatred of not just Israel but Jews, demanding the killing of Jews as a current obligation and the will of Allah.

The article goes on to state that:

At least four times in recent months, Palestinian religious leaders have taught publicly that the following Hadith (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) is an authoritative directive of Islam today, expressing Allah's will that obedient Moslems kill Jews. According to Sheikh Muhammed Abd al Hadi La'afi, quoted in the official P.A. newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (May 18, 2001), and Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi, delivering the main Friday sermon on Palestinian TV (April 13, 2001), the Hadith itself states:

"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

On Palestinian TV (March 30, 2001) the preacher Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi attacked Arab-Moslem world leaders because they are avoiding attacking Israel with missiles and tanks, and threatened them that Allah is liable to "replace them with other men... that fight for Allah... to liberate the lands from the defilement of the Jews."

"We the Palestinian nation, our fate from Allah is to be the vanguard in the war against the Jews until the resurrection of the dead, as the prophet Mohammed said: 'The resurrection of the dead will not arrive until you will fight the Jews and kill them...' We the Palestinians are the vanguard in this undertaking and in this campaign, whether or not we want this..." (Palestinian TV, July 28, 2000)

"Blessed is he who fights jihad in the name of Allah, blessed is he who [goes on] raids in the name of Allah, blessed is he who dons a vest of explosives on himself or on his children and goes in to the depth of the Jews and says: ‘Allahu Akbar, blessed be Allah.' Like the collapse of the building upon the heads of the Jews in their sinful dance-hall, I ask of Allah that we see the Knesset collapsing on the heads of the Jews." (Palestinian TV, June 8, 2001)

"The battle with the Jews will surely come... the decisive Moslem victory is coming without a doubt, and the prophet spoke about in more than one Hadith. And the day of resurrection will not come without the victory of the believers [the Moslems] over the descendents of the monkeys and pigs [the Jews] and with their annihilation." (official P.A. newspaper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, May 18, 2001)

"The Jews are the Jews. There never was among them a supporter of peace. They are all liars... the true criminals, the Jewish terrorists, that slaughtered our children, that turned our wives into widows and our children into orphans, and desecrated our holy places. They are terrorists. Therefore it is necessary to slaughter them and murder them, according to the words of Allah... it is forbidden to have mercy in your hearts for the Jews in any place and in any land. Make war on them anyplace that you find yourself. Any place that you encounter them -- kill them. Kill the Jews and those among the Americans that are like them... Have no mercy on the Jews, murder them everywhere..." (Palestinian TV, October 13, 2000)

"My dear brothers, so continues the struggle between the Moslems and the Jews from the past, both near and far, in the present and in the future. And in this matter the word of Allah will be fulfilled: 'There will not be found [anyone] more hostile to the believers than the Jews and the idolaters." (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001, quoting the Koran - Sura 5,84)

This bullcrap that only Jews of the Middle East are war criminals and the source of the conflict with Palestinians of course ignores and white washes Muslim bigotry and anti Jewish hatred which is the fuel of their terrorist behavior.

Consider words that incite broadcast daily such as these:

"...The Jews are used to deceit... They fake the facts and changed the laws of Allah... The Torah was brought down with contained guidance toward the path of righteousness and light, just as every book which Allah brought down... [The Jews] switched the law of Allah and by this rebelled on His ruling and religion and way, and therefore they merit to be heretics and to be banished from the Allah's mercy... They faked the words of Allah and changed their religion and laws and they are the wicked. And whomever does not rule according to what Allah brought down, whomever rebelled against this... is in a rebellion against Allah, and is a descendant of Abelis [ghost], the descendant of the Satans, and worthy of receiving the punishment of the sinners..." (Palestinian TV, February 16, 1999)

"...Their Bible [of the Jews] today has no light and no teachings. Their Bible today is just a bunch of notes that were written down by people who lie about God, his prophets and his Bible... Those who do these kinds of things are the descendants of Abelis, meaning the descendants of the satans... They fabricated a Jewish history book full of promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that He will give them the land of Palestine..." (Palestinian TV, November 3, 1998)

* * *

All of the land from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea is Holy Islamic Wakf (Moslem religious trust).

Shiekh Yuosouf Abu Sneina, official preacher of the Al Aqsa Mosque, referred to the Israeli cities of Haifa, Lod, Jerusalem, and Nazareth, on Palestinian Radio (April 30, 1999):

"The Islamic Land of Palestine is one and cannot be divided. There is no difference between Haifa and Nablus, between Lod and Ramallah, between Jerusalem and Nazareth. Dividing Palestine into cantons and giving recognition to the occupation is prohibited by Sharia (Islamic religious law), since Palestinian is Wakf (Islamic Trust) for all Moslems in the East and in the West. No one has the right to give it up or to forsake it. The liberation of Palestine is a mandatory obligation for all Moslems and not only for our Palestinian nation."

Demonstrating the consistent ideology, a nearly identical speech was broadcast one year later (Palestinian TV, September 8, 2000)

"Allah made it clear to us through the laws of the Sharia (Islamic religious law), and we say: The Islamic Land of Palestine is one and cannot be divided. There is no difference between Haifa and Nablus, Lod and Ramallah, Jerusalem and Nazareth or Gaza and Ashkelon. Palestine is Wakf land that belongs to Moslems throughout the world and no one has the right to give it up or to forsake it. Whoever does this is a traitor to the trust and is nothing but a loathsome criminal whose end shall be in hell."

Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, the Palestinian Authority appointed Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine, referred to the Israeli cities of Jaffa and Acre on Palestinian TV (January 11, 2001):

"We are discussing the current problems and when we speak about Jerusalem it doesn't mean that we have forgotten about Hebron or about Jaffa or about Acre... We are speaking about the current problems that have priority at a certain time. It doesn't mean that we have given up... We have announced a number of times that from a religious point of view Palestine from the sea to the river is Islamic."

As broadcast on Palestinian TV (October 13, 2000), again referring to Israeli cities and regions:

"Even if agreements were signed [regarding] Gaza and the West Bank, we will not forget Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, the Galilee Triangle, and the Negev. It is only a question of time..."

"It is forbidden for anyone, Arab, Palestinian or Moslem to forgo one grain of soil of the land of Palestine, Jerusalem and Al Aksa... Whoever forgoes even one grain of soil his sin is upon him, and all the sins of the Palestinians, the Arabs and the Moslems, forever and ever..." (Palestinian TV, September 8, 2000)

"...The Jews gathered from all ends of the earth in our beloved Palestine, from Rosh HaNikra in the north to Eilat in the south... from sea to river, it was all a land of Moslems... Palestine's borders, the promised Palestine, is from the sea to the river..." (Palestinian TV, August 18, 2000)

* * *

As for the joke Arafat and Abbas engaged in pretending to negotiate peace with Israel admitting to the world they negotiated in bad faith after Arafat got caught in South Africa admitting when he thought the mike was off that he had lied:

"In an interview on Palestinian TV (September 1, 2000) an Israeli Arab Knesset Member, Abd-Al Malek Dahamshe, defined the agreements with Israel as "Hudna" -- a temporary cease fire. In response to a viewer who called in to the studio and commented that, "Our problem with Israel is not a border problem, but an existential one," Knesset Member Dahamshe responded: "We exaggerate when we say 'peace'... What we are speaking about is 'Hudna.'" This idea of accepting "Hudna," temporary agreements until some future liquidation of Israel, has also been expressed by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, leader of the Hamas terrorist organization, as quoted in the official Palestinian Authority newspaper, Al Hayat-Al Jadida (July 24, 2000):

"We are speaking of 'Hudna', [a cease fire] for a while, but not of the end of the conflict. In exchange for this should include a complete withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza..."

Consider these words:

“...In our holy books [it is written] that when a state for the Jews is established in Palestine, it will not last more than 67 years. In other words -- the year 2022. And I beg Allah to bring an end to the country of the oppressor in America, and the country of the oppressor Israel in Palestine, by that date... Therefore, it is our hope that this oppressive country [israel] will be terminated, as in the words of Allah..."

* * *

The destruction of Israel is a global Islamic responsibility.

"Arab and Moslem rulers! The weaponry that will not be used against the enemies of Allah will rust and you will use them against one another, as happens periodically. Aim your arrows once and make war, as they war against you. Why this fear of the State [of Israel] that is surrounded by Arabs and Moslems? Why this fear? Because you do not fear Allah -- whoever fears Allah, all else will fear him." (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"There are Hadiths (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) regarding our struggle against the Jews. And it is given: ‘The day of resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!' This Hadith clarifies to us the characteristics of the campaign between us and the Jews. The tree and the rock do not say 'Oh, Palestinian,' 'Oh Arab,' or 'Oh resident of the Middle East.' Rather they say: 'Oh, Moslem, Servant of Allah.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"The Arab rulers and the Moslems, and our people everywhere. If we don't support Allah, He will replace us with other men... The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"Oh, our Arab brethren... Oh, our Moslem brethren... Don't leave the Palestinians alone in war against the Jews... Even if it has been decreed upon us to be the vanguard... Jerusalem, Palestine and Al Aksa, the land that Allah blessed and its surrounding areas will remain at the center of the struggle between truth and falsehood, between the Jews and the non-Jews on this sacred land, regardless of how many agreements are signed, regardless of how many treaties and covenants are ratified. For the truth is in the Koran, as verified by the words of the prophet Mohammed, that the decisive battle will be in Jerusalem and its environs: 'The resurrection of the dead will not occur until you make war on the Jews...'" (Palestinian TV, August 11, 2000)

"All the members of this nation must take part in this struggle against the enemies of Allah, so that through us the saying of Allah will be fulfilled: 'You will not find people more hostile than are the Jews.'" (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001)

"Palestine... causes the Jews to lose sleep, causes the enemies of Allah throughout the land to lose sleep... It is a bleeding wound, and it will continue to bleed forever and ever... Jerusalem is a symbol... to the Moslems and to their war of Jihad forever and ever." (Palestinian TV, August 11, 2000)

"The victory is coming, the victory is coming, the victory is coming! Allah, show us your marvels against the Jews! Show them a black day, like the day of A'ad and Tha'mud (tribes that were defeated and destroyed). Because they boasted to us of their strength! Show us the prince against them, show them a black day! Allah, transform them into the Moslems' spoils of war! Allah, transform them into our spoils of war!” (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001)

Nothing's changed. Today the hateful words continue.

So when I read forum responses complete with anti Israelis spewing indignation about what Israel does I say, until they speak and discuss what Palestinians do in the same manner, they are nothing more than partisans who ignore Palestinian terrorism which empowers Palestinian terrorists to keep teaching their captives to stab and kill Israelis.

The hatred you see today of randomly stabbing Jews in Israel is not about borders, its about religious doctrine that teaches Jews are infidel to be killed in holy righteousness.

It is the actions of people brought up to see all Jews not just Israelis as the enemy to kill.

Anyone who thinks this is simply about Jewish settlements for me deliberately ignores reality for partisan reasons.

Religion fuels Palestinian extremism. The Jewish settlers that do prescribe to a form of extremism Zionism that preaches hatred of Muslims and Palestinians is the same in reverse but these extremist religious Zionists number 125,000 or so and on day who knows what obstacle they may be if Palestinians ever mature to a level where they can accept a Jewish state which would then lead to Israel as part of a comprehensive settlement pulling them from the West Bank. One of them killed Rabin trying to make peace. They can not be underestimated any more than we should underestimate the Palestinian religious extremists fueled by their Islamic beliefs.

I wish there was a way to assure Muslims could evolve to a moderate expression of their religion that learns to live in a peaceful manner with non Muslims and abandons the concept of dhimmitude just as Christianity has evolved past stating Jews are cursed or non Christians are evil and cursed.

Old habits die hard. Both Christianity and Islam have taught non believers go to hell. Judaism does not.

Most Israelis don't consider themselves religious. They gave that up for an existential pragmatic view of spirit.

[eyeball]

Spam dies even harder.

[Guest]

Old habits die hard. Both Christianity and Islam have taught non believers go to hell. Judaism does not.

In that case, being an Atheist, I've decided I'm not a Jew. Not not a Christian or a Muslim.

[Rue]

It really doesn't matter what label you give yourself does it? My point was Christianity and Islam teach their followers, you are incomplete, inferior, infidel, going to hell, if you don't do what Jesus/Muhammed wants. Judaism does not rely on a personified God but its demand for blind obedience through an abstract God concept is no better or worse, but it does not define like Islam and Chrisianity do, non believers as going to hell or infidel.

In the ancient days the predecessors to Jews the Hebrews were as bloody as Christians and Muslims would go on to be in the name of God, but the religion could evolve and because it did not have a built in doctrine like Christianity and Islam that it had to convert the world to the word of God through Jesus or Muhammed, it could more quickly evolve.

Any fundamentalist religious belief can fuel intolerance and war.

My point was, the anti Semitism leading to and culminating in the holocaust flowed from Christianity's belief Jews were evil and cursed just as Islam continues to preach non Muslims are dhimmi to this day.

That fuels religious inspired terrorism.

The people who call Israel terrorist and religiously inspired haven't a clue what Zionism is. Zionism is a rejection of Jewish religion as the way to define Jews and this is why many ultra orthodox Jews reject Zionism-they say it ignores the Torah.

Zionism defines Jews as a nationality, not a religion. Practicing Judaism is only one possible way to qualify to be a national Jew.

Its something the anti Israelis on this board can not wrap their rigid little stereotypes around.

Zionism is what led to Muslims and Christians in Israel having their own religious/family courts, the right to opt out of military service, the right to elect leaders in the Knesset and own land-all rights no Jew has in a Muslim country or had in a Christian country at one point.

In hindsight, had Islam not been a bigoted religion defining non Muslims as inferior, if it had treated Jews as equals-probably no Jew would have wanted to leave. I can say the same about Jews in Christian countries.

Therein lies the irony. Zionism came about as a reaction to the doctrine in both religions that deemed Jews inferior and led to their persecution.

Pissing on Israel for existing, pissing on Zionism, pure and simple is simply stating, Jews had no right to fight back and liberate themselves from second class citizenship.

Its a little late for that just like its to late to tell all the people in Jamaica, Haiti, the West Indies to return to being British and French slaves.

Israel, the national expression of Jews through Zionism, is an act of political not religious emancipation and Muslim fundamentalist religion which believes Jews can not be emancipated continues a war to try put them back in the place they were prior to emanicipation.

Europe has given up on that. Instead they played their anti semitic proxy, the Muslim puppet states they controlled to express their hatred of emancipated Jews.

They still can.

But Christianity has evolved. In one stream are the modern Protestant sects that can be quite flamboyant and evangelical and reject the Pope who see Israel as part of the conditions setting up the return of Jesus. Its a weird alliance with Israel because these Christian Zionists on the one hand are more to Israel than many Jews-on the other hand their complete vision is that a nasty world war comes, we all blast each other to smithereens and then Jesus shows up to save the day.

Not a pleasant thought.

Then we have more main stream Christians who have denounced the Passion play and hating Jews but in their midst are so called moderate left wingers who look the other way on Palestinian terrorism and Muslim terrorism and try explain it a way as just the frustration of oppressed people who will start to act nice the moment Israel leaves the West Bank. Its an absurd vision of simplicity.

Islamists? Who and where are the moderates? They claim to exist but you will never see or hear from one on this forum denouncing terrorism or challenging what Big Guy or Meyer or Hudson Jones claim to speak on their behalf.

They don't dare come on the forum and admit terrorism has made a mockery of their religion and holds their people hostage and keeps them controlled as blind followers not allowed to question.

So its not a matter of whether someone is whatever they label themselves-its how and what they are willing to do to show they treat others as they would want to be treated. That is not a matter of religion, just basic manners-that is what all politics, religion, comes down to and when we treat others disrespectfully it fuels conflict.

Simple but basic math.

[Rue]

Big Guy for someone who inundates the board with anti Israel posts don't come on this thread and criticize me through passive aggressive remarks that I am engaging in a filibuster. You know exactly what I am doing. I am exercising my right just as you do yours.

If you can't handle equality Big Guy, if the very concept of me doing what you think is your right on this forum but not mine, go back to your thread. The passive aggressive remarks speak loudly as to your two faced, bigoted beliefs where you believe you have rights I should not.

Old habits die hard and no Big Buy I am not your dhimmi. I am not your khafir. I do not step and fetch for you-I use words to counter your hateful bigoted ones, and if you can't handle that, if you can't offer something to debate it get off the thread.

[Rue]

Eye I will repeat the same words to Big Guy I do you. Get off the thread if you have nothing to contribute. Your passive aggressive remarks speak for themselves as do Big Guy's. The two of you have zero problem inundating the board with piss on Israel comments and threads and now you come on this one and call it spam?

Lol. Is it that hard for you Eye to see me engaging in the very exercise you do? Does the concept of a Jew doing the same thing you do

really bother you that much.

Lol get off the thread Eye if you hate it. The passive aggressive remarks won't stop me. They are a direct response to your decision to flood the board with anti Israel threads. I have the equal right to have started and contribute to this thread as you and Big Guy or whatever name it is, wants to promulgate on the anti Israel thread.

You can't handle equality Eye-live with it because the words NEVER AGAIN are being demonstrated.

[Rue]

What can be seen in the latest passive aggressive remarks by Eye and Big Guy is typical of discussions on the Israeli Palestinian conflict and attempts to discuss Palestinian and Muslim terrorism.

The anti Israelis can not abide by anyone trying to balance the debate. They can't stand it.

The bottom line is they can not discuss the conflicts in the Middle East as not simply an Israeli war crime, but in fact a greater conflict that also deals with Palestinian and Muslim extremism, terrorism and injustice not just to Jews, but all other non Muslims as well as Muslims fueled by their Muslim extremist beliefs.

In the world of Eye and Big Guy you can only discuss the Middle East if its to piss on Jews and Israel. If you discuss anything else, out come the snide remarks. They can flood the board with one sided, partisan, anti Israeli comments, but if someone tries to present the other side of the story-here they come complete with passive aggressive remarks to avoid triggering the moderator's intervention but absolutely nothing to contribute to the thread but baiting.

[Rue]

Back to the topic Eye and Big Guy will not discuss and I will keep discussing as long as they continue to flood the board with one sided anti Israel diatribes.

Bassam Tawil, in his article, "What Do Terrorists Want?, Oct.15, 2015, www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6669/palestinian-terrorists

states its not poverty that drives Palestinian extremism its hatred for Jews which is taught to them by their religious leaders.

Mr. Tawil, claims his people, Palestinians, are being brainwashed to kill and hate Jews by Islamic clergy.

He says he was taught all Jews are settlers, and Israel pre 1967 is a settlement to be extinguished not just the settlements on the West Bank, moderate leftists pretend are the only settlements being questioned by Palestinian leaders and terrorist groups.

He states the goal has always been to take back Israel, all of it.

Palestinians do talk out and admit the above.

Now I mention the above because on the anti Israel thread Bug Guy played the good Jew, bad Jew tactic claiming since he quoted anti Israel Jews they must be believed as the good Jews and people like me, rejected as bad Jews.

Big Guy went so far as to pose on the board he had Jewish friends he showed my posts to shocked at how I support Israel and write what I do.

Now I suppose I could pull the same stunt in reverse and say, see, this Palestinian is a good one and my Palestinian friends who I show Big Guy's posts too can't possibly imagine why he is so bigoted against Israel and are shocked.

The point is it would be purile to do that. It would be bigoted to do that. It would be ignorant and blatantly transparent to do that.

We all are entitled to our opinions.

The point is not all Jews are anti Zionist and the ones who are, don't magically over-ride the opinions or morality of Zionist Jews as Big Guy tried to pose in his past threads criticizing alleged Israel war crimes.

The point is not all Palestinians or Muslims agree with Big Guy or Eye or Hudson Jones or their claim to speak on behalf of Muslims or Palestinians while using non Muslim names and making sure to distance themselves from being Muslim.

My point is I do not hide being a Jew on this forum or my political biases. Do they? Does anyone hear think someone who routinely advocates on behalf of Iran is any different then what I am accused of doing on this forum with Israel?

How would any of you know who it is behind these forum posts and what their true religiously motivated biases are?

Hmmm?

I contend Palestinian and Muslim terrorism is extremist Islamic belief promulgated under the guise of liberating the West Bank but really refers and has always referred not just to taking back Israel but continuing on to battle Jews and other non Muslims across the world.

While Palestinian extremist terrorists focus on recapturing Israel and their sister organizations Syria, their constitutions if you read them talk about just starting their and then going on to create a world caliphate.

The terrorist war against Israel is only one front against the West and its not the only one.

The spoiled, soft, sheltered Westerners who cling to the denial process that only bad things (terrorism) happens to bad people (Jews) are waking up to the reality that is not just Jews being attacked world wide anymore.

When it was just Jews in Israel these moderates could justify it as being caused by bad people (Jews insisting on being Israeli Jews).

When it then spread to any Jew outside Israel they then extended the definition of bad people to include all Jews (since hey they all look the same right). We still heard the "its only Zionist Jews or Israeli Jews" apology to justify the terrorism but the people who spit out that apology were silent when the attacks spread to all Jews and have remained so.

Its only now that non Jews are being attacked in Europe and Canada-US that oopsy now, hey maybe this Muslim extremism is about more than just Jews. Yah think?

I say old habits die hard. The pathetic moderate left wing still clings to the denial and fantasy that terrorists only are attacking the West because of the damned Jews of Israel. If they just left, the terrorists would go home. No really they will, they are only angry and violent because of Jews being Israeli. That's all it is really.

The attacks in Europe, its because of Jews in Israel not anything else.

The civil wars of Muslims v. Muslims, the genocide in Sudan, the wars of Syria, Bahrain, Lebanon, Iraq, its the fault of Israel.

Now some moderate leftists of course expand the word Jew to also include "colonialists", a symbolic term that might depending on context refer to the former French, British, perhaps Italian and Belgium regimes, the US hey maybe even Spain or Holland, but always seems to skip Germany, China and Russia. It also means Israel and in many contexts its used to describe white men and or white Christian men.

Ah these buzz words and what they mean. We see it tossed about to rationalize Muslim terrorism or Palestinian terrorism. See if it wasn't for colonialism (Jews, white men, Christian white men, the US, Britain, France) there would be no problems in the Middle East.

Let's just ignore how the Muslim world embraced Nazism and Russian Stalinism when Nazism ceased to have a nation.

Let's just ignore the fact that Muslims were as colonialist as these " colonialists " in running about conquering people and massacring them. No we skip all that and pretend Muslims were sitting around all peaceful with zero problems with non Muslims let alone between themselves until colonialists (white Christian men from France, Britain, the US, Jews) showed up.

In their selective world you can expand and retract the stereotype buzz word "colonialist" depending on who you want to blame, and irony of ironies, colonialists include Jews, the very people white Christian men in Europe at one point had issues with for killing Jesus and Muslims across the Muslim world still do for refusing to follow the word of Muhammed.

While white Christian men colonialists have eased up on Jews and have beer with us and hey we eat BLT's together yegards and even play golf now, Muslims still demand dhimmitude and segregation.

What a Jew in a Muslim neighbourhood let alone equal, you kidding?

Hey but we won't discuss how Muslims treat Jews or non Muslims in Muslim nations. Nope. What we will do and only do is suggest Jews unfairly segregate Palestinian Muslims. Oh yes you know Israel is ethnically cleansing Palestinians and that is why of course their birth rate has increased dramatically since 1948.

Now think about it, because on the Israel war crimes thread you were told Israelis are Nazis. Seems to me they aren't too efficient if they are Nazis. There's no train tracks, gas chambers and the Palestinian population is increasing even higher. That's a hell of a way to cleanse people don't you think?

Now Muslim extremism, the vision it offers such as the wonderful kingdoms ISIL creates and Hamas and Hezbollah aspire to create, so is that really a Zionist Jew problem on the West as the moderate leftist apologists for Muslim terrorists claim?

You really thinks so?

You really think Muslim terrorism poof goes away if the US and Israel and Europe go away?

Lol. Well Big Guy does. I mean he advocates how wonderful Iran is and how Israel should be thrown out like garbage.

Iran, a human rights loving, tolerant, democratic loving nation. A nation where progressive thoughts are permitted and encouraged.

Hey how about that Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain, Sudan, Syria, Iraq. They were wonderful places. Libya? A wonderful place.

In fact the entire Arab League of Nations, all wonderful.

Muslims and their Muslim sharia law nations, utopias. Its Jews and their nation that are the problem.

I mean just look at those Jews. They define Arabic as an official language. They allow Muslims to own land, vote, elect leaders that stand up in the Knesset calling for Israel to be disbanded. They service Palestinians in the same hospitals as Jews.

Yes sir they give them all the rights no Jew or non Muslim is allowed in a Muslim country. You see? You see how bad Israel is?

Wow wipe it out. Blow it up now.

Never mind Muslim Israelis have more rights in a Jewish nation then they have in a Muslim one, blow it up.

Hey better still, lets go to campuses across the West and scream at Jews not just Israelis and demand Jews be fired from their

jobs and anyone who questions terrorism be expelled from campus as extremists.

Hey you know what? the over 125 human rights organizations in Israel defending Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and funded by the Israeli government, that's prove how bad these Jews are.

Hey you know what else. If a Palestinian takes a knife, randomly walks up to a Jew and stabs them to death in Israel, that's o.k. because hey its a Jew you know.

Bug Guy write a thread on Muslim extremism that fuels terrorism. Eye write a thread on Palestinian terrorism or extremism? Hudson Jones? Lol, right.

What they can and will do is flood the board only to piss on Israel and then state-their thread is only about Israel, then come on this one and call it spam and make passive aggressive snide remarks.

Filibuster?

I haven't even started.

[Argus]

IThe Palestinians keep killing in an attempt to gain freedom

The leaders of the Palestinians grant their people less freedom than the Jews gave them. You could always say anything you like about Israeli government leaders but if you say anything about the Hamas or Fatah leaders you'll get dragged off to a cell to get your knees broken - if you're lucky. Freedom? Not likely. More like another Islamist torture state.

[Rue]

Yep, now Big Guy speaks for all Palestinians when he states; "The Palestinians keep killing in an attempt to gain freedom."

There he goes again, this time suggesting in one smeer, all Palestinians, "The Palestnians" all believe indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, will gan them freedom.

There you have it. All Palestinians are terrorists and for that matter pretty stupid if they believe the above.

Now I ask, you really think Big Guy speaks for Palestinians or do you think he us their name to prop his own personal opinion that be believes indiscriminate stabbings of Israeli citizens is an understandable way to achieve freedonm.

Talk about propping Palestinians, talk about misappropriatiing their name, exploiting their predicament, to rationalize insanity.

There you have it, indiscriminate murder and terrorism, hey its just a freedom achieving exercise.

Hell yah, walk up to some innocent person, stab them to death, it will make you free.

Thanks Big Guy. Here I thought freedom comes from being peaceful. Dang if I only knew. So I guess using Big Guiy's approach to freedom I should indiscriminately stab him?

I think such idiotic words speak for themselves.

My message to anyone using this board to rationalize terrorism is to read below and remember, all it takes is 1 person, just 1 to counter an entire propaganda desk full of terrorist recruiters:

http://tundratabloids.com/2015/12/western-rationalization-of-muslim-terrorism/

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV2gS4wxXi_YAXl_rFAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZ2JwNXNjBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDQ0FDMDAxXzEEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1460491154/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fricharddawkins.net%2f2015%2f12%2fshame-on-the-liberals-who-rationalise-terror%2f/RK=0/RS=jqINcMi5vu_grurynDElOhiPMwc-

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/Digital-Library/Publications/Detail/?lang=en&id=34259

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/nps/madsen_aug04.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lauryn-oates/boston-bombing-rationalization_b_3156160.html

Edited April 12, 2016 by Rue

[Rue]

As can be seen Big guy described the indiscriminate Palestinian terrrorist knifings as and I quote:

"The Palestinians keep killing in an attempt to gain freedom."

I now put a face and name to the people being stabbed to death-people Big Guy can not and will not acknowledge:

source: http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/i-challenge-you-to-condemn-the-murder-of-my-father-son-of-israel-terror-victim-tells-united-nations-3-1-2016

When reading the words below they apply directly and equally to Big Guy and all the other anti Israelis on this board:

The words come from Micah Avni, whose father Richard was killed in a Jerusalem terror attack:

"My father, Richard Lakin, was a kind gentle person. An elementary school principal who educated thousands of children. A human rights activist dedicated to promoting coexistence. He marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. He founded a school in Israel where Muslim, Christian and Jewish children studied together. He wrote a book called 'Teaching as an Act of Love'.

Last October, two Palestinian terrorists attacked a bus full of civilians in Jerusalem. They shot my 76-year old father in the head, and stabbed him multiple times after he fell, severing most of his vital organs.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon came to visit my father in the hospital before he died. He wrote my mother a private condolence letter.

"What the secretary-general, and you, the UN investigator on Israel, and this council, did not do was publically condemn these terrorists, or the rampant Palestinian incitement that fuels this brutality.

The UN Office here has a webpage devoted to 'UN Response to Acts of Terrorism'.

It contains a long list of terror attacks, and UN condemnations. My dad isn’t on it.

In fact, not a single Israeli victim of the latest wave of Palestinian terror is on it.

Palestinians are not preparing for peace. Instead, Palestinian leader Abbas praised my father’s murderer – calling him a 'martyr.'

I am here today from Israel to issue a direct challenge to the Secretary General, the High Commissioner, and this Council: Killing civilians on a bus is terror. I challenge you to outright condemn the murder of my father Richard Lakin.

I challenge you to condemn President Abbas for calling my dad’s murderer a 'martyr' and for his hateful incitement to violence.

The passionate goal of my father and the people of Israel is peaceful coexistence. Your failure to condemn Palestinian violence and your continued rationalization of Palestinian terror is pushing peace away, making more death inevitable."

I am here on this forum,. right now to look "Bug Guy" in the eye and say-it ends here and each day when people stand up to you and call out your attempting to rationalize terrorism exploiting Israelis and Palestinians equally to push your agenda.

I am here today on this forum to say to Ghost, it ends here, this day, by one person, each time that one person says no, this is not about just Jewish settlements and it never was and for each person who turns a blind eye, apologizes for or advocates destroying Israel and Jews, all it takes is one person to stand up to it. Just one.

No desk full of script writers, no young men making Hitler salutes and goosesteeping, just one person.

[Rue]

On the pro Iranian thread extolling the virtues of Iran as the key to mid-east peace, the

pro Iranians of course won't discuss the role Iran plays in Muslim terrorism financing so I will do it here.

To start with I agree with this comment Netyanyahu made and can be found at:

source: http://www.timesofis...rists-families/

“Our fight against terrorism… does not exist in a vacuum,” Netanyahu says at the start of his meeting with Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borissov. “Yesterday Iran announced that it will finance the families of the terrorists and murderers; this shows that Iran, even after the nuclear agreement, is continuing to aid terrorism, including Palestinian terrorism, Hezbollah terrorism and its assistance to Hamas. This is something that the nations of the world must confront and condemn and assist Israel – and other countries, of course – in repelling.”

“Second, the terrorism by those wielding knives, the Palestinian children, also does not exist in a vacuum. It comes from the Palestinian education system, which is controlled by the Palestinian Authority. Yesterday (Feb.24/16) Eliav Gelman lost his life in another terrorist attack, not by the students of terrorism, but by those who teach terrorism, a Palestinian teacher. Therefore, the world needs to stand with Israel against this incitement, which is the number one cause of terrorism.”

cont. next post

Edited April 12, 2016 by Rue